Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
SkyCake

worlds is April... faq needed?

Recommended Posts

32 minutes ago, Irokenics said:

Rather than nerfing things are being used, how about changing up the things that never get touched.

Propose the following cards to be changed in someway or another to make them usable or at least a viable option!

  • All the liasons

Your meta doesn't have slicer tools, yet, eh?

Just wait until you have 100 pts of squadron about to activate and pounce on an enemy ship, and a GR75 slides up alongside and turns your ship off...THEN you'll see the value of liaisons!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There may be good ideas for clarifying certain cards and interactions, but I don't see a huge need for a Demo nerf.  Frankly, Demolisher is the only reason the Gladiator still sees competition play much like Yavaris on the Nebulon-B.  We're seeing far more fleets double down on ISDs than really abuse Demolisher last-first setups, and many of those are just substituting a fully upgraded ISD for Demolisher.

Demolisher already has a number of solid counters in the game including a variety of squadron builds, activation delays, objective farming setups, and just solid firepower that can obliterate it before it has the chance to murder an enemy fleet.  These counters are prevalent for both factions.  I just don't see a strong argument for further nerfing one of the Empire's only correctly-priced small ships (seriously GSD1+Demo build typically comes to nearly the cost of an ISD already).

If there are strong contenders for a nerf, they are probably mostly over on the Rebel side and probably mostly dealing with Commanders and certain ability upgrades.  Demo allows 1 ship to ignore key rules for the shooting versus moving turn order, but other abilities are far more egregious in allowing players to ignore critical limiting factors such as deployment positioning, player turn order, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would actually like to see a soft cover rule book, with all the faq'd changes, a complete listing of all the rules (some items came with ships and such) a listing of all cards that are out upto the SSD, and maybe a few minor points changes for items. Nothing massive, more of a rulebook like older games have. Nothing hard cover though, and with a way to purchase a .pdf version as well.

 

Oh, and the release of Empire and Rebel starter kits, that would be cheaper or more focused than the defunct core set. Maybe keep the original idea of the Empire one, 1 VSD, 1 Raider, 1 Gozanti's and 6 tie fighters? For rebels it could be the Assault Frigate, Neb-b, and CR90 with their 4 Xwings? As well as both kits having the essentials to play. Maneuver tool, Dice, Damage Deck, Objectives... asteroids.

Edited by Ling27

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Ling27 said:

I would actually like to see a soft cover rule book, with all the faq'd changes, a complete listing of all the rules (some items came with ships and such) a listing of all cards that are out upto the SSD, and maybe a few minor points changes for items. Nothing massive, more of a rulebook like older games have. Nothing hard cover though, and with a way to purchase a .pdf version as well.

Or how about just an updated RRG doc that actually includes all the rules for the game...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, xanderf said:

Your meta doesn't have slicer tools, yet, eh?

Just wait until you have 100 pts of squadron about to activate and pounce on an enemy ship, and a GR75 slides up alongside and turns your ship off...THEN you'll see the value of liaisons!

Our meta does have slicers, and im pretty sure the last few Armada videos we've done on MOTF have featured slicers.

There are just better things to deal with slicers than liasons, such as Thrawn, Leia (officer), Wing Commander (and the like), deployment and sometimes not caring due to all the commands being good at that point in the game lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Irokenics said:

Our meta does have slicers, and im pretty sure the last few Armada videos we've done on MOTF have featured slicers.

There are just better things to deal with slicers than liasons, such as Thrawn, Leia (officer), Wing Commander (and the like), deployment and sometimes not caring due to all the commands being good at that point in the game lol.

Bit surprised to see Wing Commander as a suggestion, given Weapon Liaison does the same thing for half the price (presuming you have a token to spare, and if not, throw Hondo somewhere and you always will - and it still comes out cheaper).  Bonus: if you unexpectedly lose your entire fighter wing to enemy attack, Weap Liaison lets you pivot to concentrate fire just as easily, while Wing Commander just sits there 6 pts wasted.

Thrawn does certainly work as my second choice, although he does only work for 3 turns, so if you've got multiple slicer ships and an aggressive enemy - or, worse, Cham - he'll run out on you at the worst possible time.

Nah, I disagree on that one - the liaison officers are fine for what they do and their price.  PLENTY of other stuff that sits around unused.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Irokenics said:

Rather than nerfing things are being used, how about changing up the things that never get touched.

Propose the following cards to be changed in someway or another to make them usable or at least a viable option!

  • Independence
  • Redemption
  • Point Defence Reroute
  • Dominator
  • Insidious
  • Sensor Teams
  • Fire Control Teams
  • All the liasons
  • XX-9
  • Liberty
  • YV 666
  • Lancers
  • All the red objectives that are not Most Wanted, Advanced Gunnery and Station Assault
  • Fleet Ambush
  • Director Isard
  • Redundant Shields
  • Cluster Bombs (a great upgrade really, but it only comes in the mc80?!)
  • Heavy Turbo Laser Turrets
  • Ion Canon Batteries (killed by HIEs)
  • MS-1 Ion Canons
  • Expanded Launchers
  • Walex Bissex
     

Sadly while I would want buffs too it is highly unlikely that ffg would buff underused cards. They would only buff when it directly affects current meta(e.g. XI7 vs AP). As a business, it is more lucrative for them to just release new upgrades in new waves than buff the current sidelined upgrades and earn no/less money. I personally havent seen any buffs to sidelined upgrades in my years of xwing and armada(but would be glad to be corrected :))

On a positive note, imo is up to us as community to continue to find uses for sidelined upgrades. I personally like to try and work some in with the overused stuff to make something new. Good thing about armada is that the format has enough space and flexibility that even lists of underused stuff can still put up a fight(somewhat)

 

P.S. Blockade run is a great red objective for ... ironically, some long range imp fleets :D

Yea I think the Cluster Bombs should have come in the mc30 pack instead. But that would be too many good things in 1 exp(trc, apt, great ship). 

I believe ICB ions will see more use when SSD and piett arrive, to help in shutting them down. HTT may make a mini-comeback too as it counters SSD with its many def tokens(also counters needa if he is on it)

Edited by Muelmuel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, SkyCake said:

Reflecting on the last run up to worlds there was a huge push for an faq and we did get it a month before worlds... I was wondering if the community at large felt like another faq would be due or what types of issues they felt needed to be addressed... Deposit gripes, grudges, and beefs here.

No changes. Let it ride till after worlds. The SSD will bring plenty of change. 

And IMHO, demo is fine. When it wins worlds 3 times, take a look then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm. From my experience - nothing much. Theres a few things i think are crazy strong (marek jendon) but the actual results dont suggest so.

Considering what i hear on pretty much every pod cast, i cant believe noone has mention riekan yavaris aceholes yet. Its never really seemed strong here is Australia but everywhere else it seems to be maintaining dominance.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Irokenics said:

Rather than nerfing things are being used, how about changing up the things that never get touched.

Propose the following cards to be changed in someway or another to make them usable or at least a viable option!

  • Independence
  • Redemption
  • Point Defence Reroute
  • Dominator
  • Insidious
  • Sensor Teams
  • Fire Control Teams
  • All the liasons
  • XX-9
  • Liberty
  • YV 666
  • Lancers
  • All the red objectives that are not Most Wanted, Advanced Gunnery and Station Assault
  • Fleet Ambush
  • Director Isard
  • Redundant Shields
  • Cluster Bombs (a great upgrade really, but it only comes in the mc80?!)
  • Heavy Turbo Laser Turrets
  • Ion Canon Batteries (killed by HIEs)
  • MS-1 Ion Canons
  • Expanded Launchers
  • Walex Bissex
     

XX-9s and Libertys are used in the game. All the other stuff could use some points adjustments. Also why does Walex seem bad with Sloane, Intel Officer, and The Senate just around the corner?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

XX-9s and Libertys are used in the game. All the other stuff could use some points adjustments. Also why does Walex seem bad with Sloane, Intel Officer, and The Senate just around the corner?

Walex because of timing.

You die.

THEN you have the opportunity to use Walex.

Same as Stm.

And why rbd have different timing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As other have pointed out, it would probably be ill-advised to release a "balance FAQ" before the SSD drops. Yes, the meta has shifted since the last FAQ, but it will likely shift again in the next couple of months.

And while the data from Regionals is nice, it's too early to tell if the... Brunsonisher (ugh...) is indeed OP or if the meta can adjust to counter it. If it is indeed OP, it will keep dominating through multiple meta cycles. Then, maybe FFG can look at nerfing it somehow. Until then, there's a (fairly strong, IMO) chance that people will adapt or even move on from it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, TallGiraffe said:

XX-9s and Libertys are used in the game. All the other stuff could use some points adjustments. Also why does Walex seem bad with Sloane, Intel Officer, and The Senate just around the corner?

"Its treason than" 🤣

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, CptAwesomer said:

it's too early to tell if the... Brunsonisher (ugh...) is indeed OP

The Clonisher and now the Brunsonisher. How many "Onisher" versions of this ship are we gonna get? 😅 With 'The Senate' officer card coming out in the SSD maybe we'll get the "Palponisher" ?

There has been much wailing and gnashing of teeth of the Demo title pretty much since it came out and I'm not sure why, its just a big glass cannon - and it has less range post nerf. The biggest reason its always included is because unless you're looking for a carrier (Quasar) or a good flak platform (Raider) there really isn't a better way to spend 100 points or less. and as far as survive-ability goes it has nothing on the Landomition.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, SkyCake said:

Reflecting on the last run up to worlds there was a huge push for an faq and we did get it a month before worlds... I was wondering if the community at large felt like another faq would be due or what types of issues they felt needed to be addressed... Deposit gripes, grudges, and beefs here.

I would like an official ruling on what happens when Governor Pryce, Bail Organa or Aspiration get deleted by Darth Vader (boarding Team). I have my opinion, but there was some disagreement in the rules forum about Aspiration especially.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, LordTesla said:

The Clonisher and now the Brunsonisher. How many "Onisher" versions of this ship are we gonna get? 😅 With 'The Senate' officer card coming out in the SSD maybe we'll get the "Palponisher" ?

There has been much wailing and gnashing of teeth of the Demo title pretty much since it came out and I'm not sure why, its just a big glass cannon - and it has less range post nerf. The biggest reason its always included is because unless you're looking for a carrier (Quasar) or a good flak platform (Raider) there really isn't a better way to spend 100 points or less. and as far as survive-ability goes it has nothing on the Landomition.

We'll get as many versions as there are upgrade cards, sir! Aptonisher! Acmonisher! ETmonisher! XX-9nonisher! #Palponisher2020, book it.

I don't necessarily have anything against whatever-onisher and totally agree with you that it is so ubiquitous because there is no better option for Imps. It's been seen a lot lately (though "a lot" is not much better than anecdotal evidence at this point) and there is a worry that the reason it's being seen so much is because it's overpowered. As I said and as you point out, jury's still very much out on whether it really is or not.

Going on a limb here, but the difference with facing Demo, as opposed to the other ubiquitous title, Yavaris, is that Demo is often used as a blitz option, whereas Yavaris takes time to develop. People don't like their plastic bits getting blown up turn 2 with no way to retaliate (or so would an unprepared player pretend). It's the same thing with 2-ship Pryce builds at the moment. It handcuffs you and you have little time to do anything to counter it. Which only means you have to come prepared.

Reasonably, IF Demo/Brunson/whatever part of that combo is OP, it will show.... eventually. Chances are, though, the meta will adapt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, CptAwesomer said:

As other have pointed out, it would probably be ill-advised to release a "balance FAQ" before the SSD drops. Yes, the meta has shifted since the last FAQ, but it will likely shift again in the next couple of months.

And while the data from Regionals is nice, it's too early to tell if the... Brunsonisher (ugh...) is indeed OP or if the meta can adjust to counter it. If it is indeed OP, it will keep dominating through multiple meta cycles. Then, maybe FFG can look at nerfing it somehow. Until then, there's a (fairly strong, IMO) chance that people will adapt or even move on from it.

Agree with this. I don't think an FAQ is needed before worlds and *if* the current trends continue I think Demolisher will get some kind of nerf. I would expect FFG collects better data on official tournaments than we do and will observe if certain ships become overused, surely the decision to nerf something is based on some empirical data? 



Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, CptAwesomer said:

Going on a limb here, but the difference with facing Demo, as opposed to the other ubiquitous title, Yavaris, is that Demo is often used as a blitz option, whereas Yavaris takes time to develop

The other point is that Demolisher isn't situational. It's pretty much useful in any situation. A complete beginner can make good use of it Yes Yavaris is powerful and is used well by top players but it's limited by not having upgrade for boosted comms and has large and weak flanks. It seems as if it's actually being used less now than before, probably in part due to more Demolishers and Raddus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To get away from the Demo talk...

I think much of the FAQ will be To clarify things that will come with the SSD. 

 

How does Motti affect the SSD? 

Can Governor Price be used on a SSD? 

What are the deployment rules for the SSD?

How is the SSD deployed in Fleet Ambush? 

Does Konstantine work with the SSD?

Basically anything that references ship size needs to be clarified or a blanket statement needs to be made that anything that applies to large ships also applies to Huge Ships.

I think we can make educated guesses about many of these but they do need to be clarified.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...