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KFMixer

So RUDE to quit games ???!!???

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Crucible is a very valuable tool, but it is new so it is misunderstood.

 

There is too many people complaining, because people quit games on crucible.  Personally, I think that people need to get over that idea. 

 

Crucible is for deck testing.  Sure, it's fun to see who wins .... but, I don't think that is the main point of it (at least at this juncture).

People are going to quit when they get bad draws, or when you get them caught in a bad combo.  People aren't going to stick around and waste time on a lost game.  They're going to start a new game, and maybe test a new deck or hope they get a better draw.  

 

I don't see a problem in quitting.  It's what happens so that people can test more!

 

Do you quit games, or does it upset you when opponents quit?

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Testing a deck, only while it's winning, isn't testing a deck. You're not going to know what a deck is really capable of until you do get those bad draws, or your opponent has a really good turn and you need to respond. If you start 20 games, but only finish 5 of them because they were the ones that were going well, you don't know your deck.

I don't play online. I don't know if there's the capability to chat with your opponent. But if there is, if I've got two keys to their 0 and my opponent was like, "Hey man, thanks for the game, but I scoop," that's one thing. But if after two turns they just up and leave without a word... that's rude.

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Thecrucible.online is the portal to play virtually right now, ,and yes there is chat.  I understand your viewpoint about finishing a game, but I have a different opinion since testing so much. 

 

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(Rage-)Quitting when you're having some bad luck will invalidate the test results since you're shifting the bias toward only "successful" results. Hence quitting is bad if you are intent on testing your decks.

On the topic of quitting I find that it's quite rude to just drop from a game. Remember that there are two players in the game and by abruptly quitting you are robbing them of their chance to properly test their decks if that's what they are there for. If not you are detracting from their experience.

Intentionally quitting is generally very frowned upon in online games and often enforce severe punishments for repeat offenders. And it should be that way. Being a sore loser is not an attitude we should promote.

Put it this way: You are playing a training match of soccer and your team is playing well and is winning. Would you accept the other team just leaving the playing field because they are not winning?

 

 

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37 minutes ago, KFMixer said:

Crucible is a very valuable tool, but it is new so it is misunderstood.

 

There is too many people complaining, because people quit games on crucible.  Personally, I think that people need to get over that idea. 

 

Crucible is for deck testing.  Sure, it's fun to see who wins .... but, I don't think that is the main point of it (at least at this juncture).

People are going to quit when they get bad draws, or when you get them caught in a bad combo.  People aren't going to stick around and waste time on a lost game.  They're going to start a new game, and maybe test a new deck or hope they get a better draw.  

 

I don't see a problem in quitting.  It's what happens so that people can test more!

 

Do you quit games, or does it upset you when opponents quit?

It sounds like Hearthstone-esque behavior, in that the other player sees the writing on the wall and wants to start a new game.

It’s entirely possible they are playing for fun, and not for testing. 

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Punishments for repeat offenders?  
We aren't playing keyforge here.  This isn't an official game.

We are just play testing draws, combos and decks.  Asking for punishment is a bit .... nazi-esque

 

You can't compare this game to soccer, because there are no bad draws, hurtful combos, or improper house choices in a game of soccer...........   Also, there's no penalty for a team to forfeit the game early in soccer.  It happens all of the time, so the single analogy that you make solidifies the ability to quit.

Edited by KFMixer

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Just now, KFMixer said:

Punishments for repeat offenders?  
We aren't playing keyforge here.  This isn't an official game.

We are just play testing draws, combos and decks.  Asking for punishment is a bit .... nazi-esque

Who's "we"? You may just be testing initial draws (which you could do with the actual cards), but the other player may want full games because they don't have many people to play with in person. There's another flesh-and-blood person on the other side of that game, and one person's drop is another person's sad.

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What I'm saying is that the online game is not a legit keyforge game at all.  Someone can attempt to use it as such, but it's not for that.  It's not playing with the actual game against someone, or in a tournament.  Just because of these reasons, I don't think that people should treat it as a "game", but as testing.  Or, at least understand that lots of people will be testing out decks and combos, and not just trying to win.

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2 minutes ago, Palpster said:

If you quit a game prematurely without conceding or at least saying something to your opponent you are a *******, no question about it.

But, there are no stats.  A quit is still a concede in my opinion.  They just didn't hit the button.  If your opponent gives you the win, do you need to insult them or bring bad thoughts simply because they didn't hit the concede button (which doesn't mean anything anyways??).  Granted, my opinion on this might change if stats ever happen on the website, but for now it's just for playing and testing.  If they bring win loss records for decks, then I could see people getting upset, but we aren't there and I doubt that we ever will record wins and losses.

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3 minutes ago, KFMixer said:

But, there are no stats.  A quit is still a concede in my opinion.  They just didn't hit the button.  If your opponent gives you the win, do you need to insult them or bring bad thoughts simply because they didn't hit the concede button (which doesn't mean anything anyways??).  Granted, my opinion on this might change if stats ever happen on the website, but for now it's just for playing and testing.  If they bring win loss records for decks, then I could see people getting upset, but we aren't there and I doubt that we ever will record wins and losses.

I couldn't care less about stats, I'm just there to play a game. If you take that away from me because you leave halfway through for whatever reason you have just wasted my time and I have rather strong feelings about people who treat me that way.

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So, your problem is wasted time?  

If that's the issue, then it really shouldn't be if they click concede or not... you wouldn't like them giving up at all???  You want them to play the game through to the end?

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Don't twist my words, we were talking about people quitting prematurely because they didn't get a good draw or their combo. If you're close to forging your third key and I can't see a way out I will concede and let you know you win. We've had a good game and all is well. Not so much if I'm on one key and you just leave, then I feel you've wasted my time.

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16 minutes ago, KFMixer said:

What I'm saying is that the online game is not a legit keyforge game at all.  Someone can attempt to use it as such, but it's not for that.  It's not playing with the actual game against someone, or in a tournament.  Just because of these reasons, I don't think that people should treat it as a "game", but as testing.  Or, at least understand that lots of people will be testing out decks and combos, and not just trying to win.

No, what you’re saying is it isn’t real to you. In a way it is kind of disrespectful seeing how you are playing the game virtually with another person. You wouldn’t do this in a face to face game, so why should the crucible be any different?

I think you should communicate your intent up front before you start the game. Let people know you don’t consider it a real play and that you might leave 2-3 turns in. Let us know how that works out for you.

Edited by TheSpitfired

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14 minutes ago, KFMixer said:

But, there are no stats.  A quit is still a concede in my opinion.  They just didn't hit the button.  If your opponent gives you the win, do you need to insult them or bring bad thoughts simply because they didn't hit the concede button (which doesn't mean anything anyways??).  Granted, my opinion on this might change if stats ever happen on the website, but for now it's just for playing and testing.  If they bring win loss records for decks, then I could see people getting upset, but we aren't there and I doubt that we ever will record wins and losses.

You know there is a concede button as well, right?  I consider it very rude if my opponent just drops.  If you think you have lost and don't wish to continue, that's fine.  drop a 'GG, you got me' in chat, concede and then leave.  It takes all of 5 seconds.  I don't know if my opponent is testing, practicing, learning a new deck or is playing on-line because it is their only option.  And honestly I don't care.  But if you are only planning on playing a few hands and dropping let your opponent know.  You are wasting their time if they are on for a real game, as most people are.  Anything else is incredibly rude.  

Also, if you leave early because you are losing, you don't know KeyForge very well.  this game has some wild swings.  I have come back from several 2-0 setback.  Some decks take time to develop.  Some decks are quick strike.  Dropping because you are losing is doing a disservice to your deck.

Edited by xbeaker

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Yet, opponents have the right to concede the game if they feel they are going to lose.  You don't know what they have in their hand, so it's just your opinion that it's premature.  Forcing someone to go through the game is wasting their time against their wishes.  I can see both points, but especially wanting to just start another, because the last one is lost.  

You should just count those as complete wins, and start another game.  Perhaps if you want to play every game out to completion, would competitive be a better outlet?  

 

Do you feel that people are less likely to quit/concede prematurely in competitive? I'm not sure there's much difference at this point between the levels.  I just don't want to get caught in a beginner game with someone that takes ages and doesn't have a clue what is going on.

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Perhaps one of the issues with people getting upset, is that there are very different users on crucible.  Personally, I'm not here to play to win.  Sure, that's fun and all ...... I enjoy a game that comes down to the last few turns of back and forth pressure to win.  I think it's people who just want to play that are getting upset by people who are looking to deck test.  Many tournament players will be looking to play dozens and dozens of games with each of their decks.  Is it rude for them to quit, when they've decided that they lost or want to look at another deck?  I personally don't think so, but people are going to get upset because their game is over early anyways.

 

Let's be honest.  If you're demolishing an opponent with a combo, you don't want them to quit.  You want to feel good and forge all 3 keys.  If the opponent has given up, conceded or just left... then you won.  There's no ifs ands or buts about it.  You won the game.  You're just upset that the opponent didn't waste more of their own time to make you feel better.  You already got the win, why would you desire to waste more of the other person's time?  

 

Perhaps that is something that can be chatted about during mullligan phase.  Hey bud, do you want to play this game out to the end?  He could say, nope ... just looking to see how this deck draws and plays quick.  Or he could say yes, and you both could be on the same page.  It's the lack of communication by players that allows them to be on different pages.  If you know that you get upset when someone leaves early, then you should at least bring up that you want to play the game to the end sometime.  Otherwise, how can you expect your opponent to understand your desires?

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2 minutes ago, KFMixer said:

Yet, opponents have the right to concede the game if they feel they are going to lose.  You don't know what they have in their hand, so it's just your opinion that it's premature.  Forcing someone to go through the game is wasting their time against their wishes.  I can see both points, but especially wanting to just start another, because the last one is lost.  

You should just count those as complete wins, and start another game.  Perhaps if you want to play every game out to completion, would competitive be a better outlet?  

 

Do you feel that people are less likely to quit/concede prematurely in competitive? I'm not sure there's much difference at this point between the levels.  I just don't want to get caught in a beginner game with someone that takes ages and doesn't have a clue what is going on.

I have no problem with people conceding the game.  I have a problem with people who leave without a word.  And people who leave without even trying to play once they are down.  Yes, I'd consider it a win.  But it is a hollow win.  I am also on to play the game and enjoy myself.  If my opponent leaves after I forge my first key because they think they have lost, there is no fun there for either of us.  I don't feel like I earned a win, I just feel like I played a coward who will only play if they are dominating the game and ran the moment they faced any adversity.  Especially because this isn't Magic, or Hearthstone, where when you are losing, the writing is generally on the wall and there is no coming back.  I beat a friend the other day when he was up 2 keys to 0.  And I did it in 2 turns!  Forged, dropped a bunch of Sanctum, triggered Epic Quest, then forged on my next turn from all the Aember I generated from dropping those Sanctum. 

If they do it by just disconnecting, it is rude.  It is the equivalent of just wordlessly walking away from the table.  Also on the crucible I have seen people drop and come back.  I don't know what is up with the connections but it has happened on more than 1 occasion. So if someone drops, I stick around for a bit to see if they really are gone, or just temporarily disconnected.  

And I have a problem with people joining me who have no intention of playing out the game.  I'm not here to be your test dummy to see how you draw.  If you want to do that, play solo on your table and just play both hands.  Or open a second browser window and play against yourself.  At the very least put it in your game name that you are just testing stuff and let people who join you know that you don't intend to finish.  

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14 minutes ago, xbeaker said:

You know there is a concede button as well, right?  I consider it very rude if my opponent just drops.  If you think you have lost and don't wish to continue, that's fine.  drop a 'GG, you got me' in chat, concede and then leave.  It takes all of 5 seconds.  I don't know if my opponent is testing, practicing, learning a new deck or is playing on-line because it is their only option.  And honestly I don't care.  But if you are only planning on playing a few hands and dropping let your opponent know.  You are wasting their time if they are on for a real game, as most people are.  Anything else is incredibly rude.  

Also, if you leave early because you are losing, you don't know KeyForge very well.  this game has some wild swings.  I have come back from several 2-0 setback.  Some decks take time to develop.  Some decks are quick strike.  Dropping because you are losing is doing a disservice to your deck.

The swings!!!!  Yes, there have been some crazy comebacks in my games.  That is one of the funnest parts about it.  

If someone was on for a real game, couldn't that be the first thing that they ask for?  Players should realize that not everyone is here to play to completion, so they should speak up if that is desired.  I know if someone asked me to play all the way through at the start of the game, I would.  This conversation intrigues me, so I looked at what crucible had to say about the topic (if anything).

 

"Even though personal stats are not being tracked, most players still very much appreciate a formal concede by clicking the ‘Concede’ button and typing ‘gg’ before leaving a game. The reality of quick and anonymous online games dictates this won’t always happen though, as evidenced by regular complaining in the main lobby about people leaving without conceding. Our advice is to just move on to the next game since in the end, conceding or not doesn’t really impact anything. Happy gaming!"

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22 minutes ago, KFMixer said:

Punishments for repeat offenders?  
We aren't playing keyforge here.  This isn't an official game.

We are just play testing draws, combos and decks.  Asking for punishment is a bit .... nazi-esque

 

You can't compare this game to soccer, because there are no bad draws, hurtful combos, or improper house choices in a game of soccer...........   Also, there's no penalty for a team to forfeit the game early in soccer.  It happens all of the time, so the single analogy that you make solidifies the ability to quit.

And there we have it, Godwin's Law in action.

You, and emphasis is on YOU, are there only to test draws, combos and decks. Others might be there to actually play the game for any number of reasons and you shouldn't presume to tell them what they can and cannot do.

As for punishment, it was merely a comparison to how online play works for pretty much every major competitive online game. Just quitting a game and doing so repeatedly will result in punishment and often a permanent ban from the game in the worst cases.

I don't know where you are getting your assumptions from but forfeiture in soccer is not a common thing. And we're not talking about taking a timeout, walking over to your opponent and explaining that you intend to give him a walk-over. We're talking about abruptly quitting a game without as much as the simple courtesy of talking to your opponent.
 

11 minutes ago, KFMixer said:

Do you feel that people are less likely to quit/concede prematurely in competitive? I'm not sure there's much difference at this point between the levels.  I just don't want to get caught in a beginner game with someone that takes ages and doesn't have a clue what is going on.

Conceding and quitting are two very different things. But then again, conceding can also be abused (take a look at Hearthstone). Are you really defending quitting because an opponent might be a bit slow? That really makes you come across as an obnoxious jerk.
 

3 minutes ago, KFMixer said:

Is it rude for them to quit, when they've decided that they lost or want to look at another deck?  I personally don't think so, but people are going to get upset because their game is over early anyways.

 Yes, it's rude for them to just abruptly quit. Talking to their opponent and saying that they've been bested and then conceding is the opposite.

5 minutes ago, KFMixer said:

It's the lack of communication by players that allows them to be on different pages.

That's all there is to it, but you've been advocating just leaving with absolutely no communication.

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1 minute ago, xbeaker said:

I have no problem with people conceding the game.  I have a problem with people who leave without a word.  And people who leave without even trying to play once they are down.  Yes, I'd consider it a win.  But it is a hollow win.  

True true, but the caveat to that is that this is a virtual game, and sometimes life happens.  People get disconnected, or emergencies happen.  I wouldn't expect everyone to place as much importance in a virtual game (where people can be using overpowered internet decks) as they do an in person game.  There should be a middle ground though.  I think people who concede a ton, should stay in casual.  

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I'm not an advocate to leaving without any type of communication, that would suggest that I'm a proponent of it.  All I'm suggesting is that if an opponent leaves without saying anything, then the person should take that as a complete win.  Crucible website developer says that there's no difference between conceding or not, and I feel the same is to be said if someone chats or doesn't.  

 

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4 minutes ago, KFMixer said:

Perhaps one of the issues with people getting upset, is that there are very different users on crucible.  Personally, I'm not here to play to win.  Sure, that's fun and all ...... I enjoy a game that comes down to the last few turns of back and forth pressure to win.  I think it's people who just want to play that are getting upset by people who are looking to deck test.  Many tournament players will be looking to play dozens and dozens of games with each of their decks.  Is it rude for them to quit, when they've decided that they lost or want to look at another deck?  I personally don't think so, but people are going to get upset because their game is over early anyways.

 

Let's be honest.  If you're demolishing an opponent with a combo, you don't want them to quit.  You want to feel good and forge all 3 keys.  If the opponent has given up, conceded or just left... then you won.  There's no ifs ands or buts about it.  You won the game.  You're just upset that the opponent didn't waste more of their own time to make you feel better.  You already got the win, why would you desire to waste more of the other person's time?  

 

Perhaps that is something that can be chatted about during mullligan phase.  Hey bud, do you want to play this game out to the end?  He could say, nope ... just looking to see how this deck draws and plays quick.  Or he could say yes, and you both could be on the same page.  It's the lack of communication by players that allows them to be on different pages.  If you know that you get upset when someone leaves early, then you should at least bring up that you want to play the game to the end sometime.  Otherwise, how can you expect your opponent to understand your desires?

This is not it at all.  To me, honestly, this just sounds like you are trying to justify leaving.  Most people I play are there to play the game.  

If I am demolishing someone I have no problem with them dropping.  There have been games where I am amazed they didn't concede!  I have also had games where I was waiting to see the game end, only for my opponent to wipe the board of creatures, capture all my aember and turn the game on it's head.  The unpredictability of KeyForge is one of the things I love about it.  But I don't need that last key for feel like I won.  I do need to feel that my opponent actually tried though.

And yes, I 100% agree it is something you should discuss in the Mulligan phase.  Not that you are there for a full play-out.  But if you are not intending to finish the game at all.  I frankly never expect to actually forge my 3rd key, on-line or in realy life.  Games almost universally end with "I can't stop you, you got it, good game."  

1 minute ago, KFMixer said:

If someone was on for a real game, couldn't that be the first thing that they ask for?  Players should realize that not everyone is here to play to completion, so they should speak up if that is desired.  I know if someone asked me to play all the way through at the start of the game, I would.  This conversation intrigues me, so I looked at what crucible had to say about the topic (if anything).

This is the right idea, but you should go into every game assuming your opponent is there to play for real.  That is what 90+% of the players are there for.  If you are not there for a full game it is your responsibility to let a prospective opponent know.  Again, I don't expect my opponent to stick around until the final key flips.  Just give it your best, and press that concede button instead of just 'leave game'

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