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That seems a bit selfish considering "Additional Development" doesn't seem like a very prestigious credit and there are about 11 other additional developers. If he's freelancing about he's probably already been paid for whatever work he did. 

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I don't think this is a reason to boycott the product.  I mean why punish all those other people just because one unsavory name appeared under "Additional Development".  For all we know they just showed him the game and he made some suggestions....Also it's a really great product.  You live your life this way and you miss out on tons of great stuff for really a silly reason.

I mean if I lived this way I'd have to throw out Thrilling Tales, and Thrilling Tales is a great supplement for Savage Worlds.  There's no chance of that happening.

Edited by phillos

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Seems like alot of effort to make a comment and then drop the account.  My point was Kevin Spacey turned out to be a pretty unsavory guy, but that doesn't change the way I felt about some of his movies for example.  Everyone else in that movie that wasn't him also contributed to the success of the project.  It isn't all that guy.  Ultimately gotta be able to separate the art from the artist.  Yeah I could cull everything even tangentially negative from my life, but why bother. 

Edited by phillos

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I won't boycott the product since he is a freelancer and there are many others involved (and also FFG has invested in a brand I like so you have to support that if you want more stuff coming). But... I think these kind of threads are good to let FFG who are they hiring and how it can hurt their reputation /sales. 

Edited by Shosur0

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I probably won’t get it regardless as I have a ton of other games to play, but I am very hard-pressed to support a game that supports scum. As far as boycotting, that’s a toughie and ultimately up to an individual. If a person wants to boycott the game, there’s nothing wrong with that; spend your money as you wish.

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16 hours ago, UnitOmega said:

That seems a bit selfish considering "Additional Development" doesn't seem like a very prestigious credit and there are about 11 other additional developers. If he's freelancing about he's probably already been paid for whatever work he did. 

He burned and continues to burn many people. He is an absolute turd of a person who deserves to be less than a footnote in RPG history. This isn’t a case of separating the art from the artist. His extremely poor behavoir is directly tied to the art, which is the problem. I’m quite sick of the outrage mob ruining lives over personal lives; this isn’t that. This is about the hobby and his atrocious behavior in it. 

He may have been paid already but every sale potentially keeps him working and paid. With any luck and justice, he will become persona non grata and be the cautionary tale he deserves to be.

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On 12/11/2018 at 8:33 PM, UnitOmega said:

That seems a bit selfish considering "Additional Development" doesn't seem like a very prestigious credit and there are about 11 other additional developers. If he's freelancing about he's probably already been paid for whatever work he did. 

We don't owe anyone or FFG a living. I can find lots of sources of entertainment I don't deem objectionable. FFG chose to hire GMS, they are solely responsible for any loss of revenue they may incurr because of who they chose to associate with. It's in fact called, by capitalism supporters, voting vith you wallet.

Personally I don't give a rat's *** about GMS, I find his public persona deplorable, but as far as his work goes it seem he just flakes out on his own work, and does dependable work for hire. Since I was never interested in his personal stuff like Far West I was never affected by it. I will not however begrudge anyone that decides to skip on L5R books because FFG is, together with Modiphius, the only company that still works with him.

 

Edited by Suzume Chikahisa

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On 12/11/2018 at 12:48 PM, Manic Modron said:

Good thing there are lots of other things in life.  Excuse me, I have an account to delete.

To err is human. To forgive, divine. No human is free of bad behavior.

Forgive me brothers and sisters, if I have caused you offense. I forgive you all for any offense I may have perceived. 

17 hours ago, Alderaan Crumbs said:

I probably won’t get it regardless as I have a ton of other games to play, but I am very hard-pressed to support a game that supports scum. As far as boycotting, that’s a toughie and ultimately up to an individual. If a person wants to boycott the game, there’s nothing wrong with that; spend your money as you wish.

There is something wrong with it if the reason is bad in itself. Some have boycotted because of color - I know a chap who stopped buying and playing R.Talsorian games because Mike Pondsmith is of dark skin. He saw a bad pic of Greg Stafford, and boycotted him, thinking him a person of color. Another person I know doesn't buy games written by women; another won't buy any written by a man. None of those are good reasons.

Now, if the individual is a proprietor behind a failed kickstarter? does that inherently make them a fraud? No! It makes them irresponsible. If they make a habit of it, or a pyramid scheme of it, yes, that's an indicator.

If they're advocating hate, if they're advocating ethnic violence, gender violence, sexual preference violence, (anti-)religious violence, or gaming style violence, that is worth complaining to the company.

Further, A boycott alone, by a scant few, is as spittle in a rainstorm, or a pebble in a tornado - totally lost in the noise. A letter of complaint, however...  Especially if they get one with a bunch of signatures, and explaining why this person is bad. But, if they've already lost you as a customer, again, spittle in a rainstorm.

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By all means, bring objective politics into it, I’ll still vote with my wallet and steer very clear of anything he touches. He’s not irresponsible, he’s a dishonest scumbag who has continually lied to backers and blamed others for hos failures. He deserves absolutely no quarter. But please, continue to lecture me and others as to how we choose not to spend our money on things we were on the fence about anyway.

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29 minutes ago, Alderaan Crumbs said:

By all means, bring objective politics into it, I’ll still vote with my wallet and steer very clear of anything he touches. He’s not irresponsible, he’s a dishonest scumbag who has continually lied to backers and blamed others for hos failures. He deserves absolutely no quarter. But please, continue to lecture me and others as to how we choose not to spend our money on things we were on the fence about anyway.

I'm not sure whether I will be put off - I've no firsthand experience of him (hence  the query) - but I've had enough grief off kickstarters even from fairly reputable companies to understand it (which is why I won't touch crowdfunding with a bargepole these days).

Regardless, thanks for the heads-up, as I wouldn't have known him from adam.

Politics aside, if you feel that strongly, I strongly advocate a (polite) complaint letter to FFG - sending them a letter directly is far more likely to get their attention than a forum announcement.

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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Sadly, I didn’t find a way to delete my admittedly emotional first post as it was largely venting. I’m not in any way expecting anyone to boycott the game and hope they don’t as I agree that it hurts other writers. At worst, his involvement might nudge me away from an undecided purchase.

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2 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I'm not sure whether I will be put off - I've no firsthand experience of him (hence  the query) - but I've had enough grief off kickstarters even from fairly reputable companies to understand it (which is why I won't touch crowdfunding with a bargepole these days).

Regardless, thanks for the heads-up, as I wouldn't have known him from adam.

Politics aside, if you feel that strongly, I strongly advocate a (polite) complaint letter to FFG - sending them a letter directly is far more likely to get their attention than a forum announcement.

both is good. i understand that the product is taking a bit of flak because of this announcement, and that is uncool... but sometimes, i also feel somebody who's been that shameful, with proofs, deserves to be condoned on the public place a bit.

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