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EliasWindrider

Are "zip ties" in the game somewhere?

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2 minutes ago, themensch said:

I don't recall seeing any, but I'm hardly a definitive resource.  My mind boggles at what stats you might need for these - something like what brawn rating it would take to snap them? 

typical binder cuffs are 4 purple to remove.  I'd guess 3 purple for these, but simple if you have something sharp.  The point is to be able to stuff a pack of 10 in a belt pouch for zero enc, and it only needs to be enough to impair someone if they try to fight or run.   basically, I'd like to be able to take/keep someone out of a fight for a few rounds,  long enough to stun them if they try to break free.

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1 minute ago, EliasWindrider said:

typical binder cuffs are 4 purple to remove.  I'd guess 3 purple for these, but simple if you have something sharp.  The point is to be able to stuff a pack of 10 in a belt pouch for zero enc, and it only needs to be enough to impair someone if they try to fight or run.   basically, I'd like to be able to take/keep someone out of a fight for a few rounds,  long enough to stun them if they try to break free.

Sounds like you solved this! 

 

I googled the tensile strength of zipties and of course they come in different strengths, and it doesn't really account for shearing force - e.g. a cunning person could twist them to snap them without having to use brute strength to overcome them.  You don't even need anything sharp, just something solid.  Heck, a strong stick will do.  I agree, it should be a Simple task with something sharp, maybe Easy with the assist of a strong tool, and probably Average to Hard if they're just trying to twist them off without the aid of a tool.  It's probably worth noting that one doesn't need to snap them to be able to get free, they could probably stretch them enough to wiggle free if they were Cunning enough. 

 

Source: I use the heck out of these on my farm. 

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6 minutes ago, themensch said:

Sounds like you solved this! 

 

I googled the tensile strength of zipties and of course they come in different strengths, and it doesn't really account for shearing force - e.g. a cunning person could twist them to snap them without having to use brute strength to overcome them.  You don't even need anything sharp, just something solid.  Heck, a strong stick will do.  I agree, it should be a Simple task with something sharp, maybe Easy with the assist of a strong tool, and probably Average to Hard if they're just trying to twist them off without the aid of a tool.  It's probably worth noting that one doesn't need to snap them to be able to get free, they could probably stretch them enough to wiggle free if they were Cunning enough. 

 

Source: I use the heck out of these on my farm. 

yeah but that doesn't give you pricing... need a GM ruling or official item for that.

"mesh tape" was one of my favorite items in Saga edition, you could use that for anything.

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Zip ties are actually very difficult to get out of if you are restrained properly. Technically not as difficult to brute force open as metal handcuffs, but pretty darn close. Enough to where even a strong human would have extreme difficulty.

I would say 4 purple if you are tied behind your back and/or are in an awkward position. 3 if they are in front of you, and your legs are not also bound. Using multiple sets would also increase the difficulty.

if you could find something sharp to rub against the check would probably be 1-2 purple, maybe with an upgrade that could cause you to cut yourself.

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There are specialty zip ties with wire embedded in them and metal one-way teeth that dig in when tightened. You'd be better off busting out of regular cuffs, just slit your wrists on the ties.

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1 hour ago, BadMotivator said:

Zip ties are actually very difficult to get out of if you are restrained properly. Technically not as difficult to brute force open as metal handcuffs, but pretty darn close. Enough to where even a strong human would have extreme difficulty.

I would say 4 purple if you are tied behind your back and/or are in an awkward position. 3 if they are in front of you, and your legs are not also bound. Using multiple sets would also increase the difficulty.

if you could find something sharp to rub against the check would probably be 1-2 purple, maybe with an upgrade that could cause you to cut yourself.

Hm, I must be magical then, I seem to be able to break even the heavy-duty ones with a stick and a twist, and with something sharp they come off pretty easily.  Multiple sets, though, resist shearing pretty well as you say. 

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6 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

yeah but that doesn't give you pricing... need a GM ruling or official item for that.

"mesh tape" was one of my favorite items in Saga edition, you could use that for anything.

100 for $4, or twice that for "heavy duty."  The ones the pirate suggests I've never seen in stores but I see them online for 100 for $12.  In game terms, a pittance, and a Rarity of like 1 or 2. 

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7 hours ago, Yaccarus said:

Keep in mind that zip ties aren’t even all that sketchy, and they’re actually really useful as tools for tying stuff together. So, you could probably buy them at Space-Ace-Hardware without a check.

Which also means that if you have a tool kit, you're quite likely to have some already. And/or mesh tape.

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Zip ties are the kinda **** where your mechanic goes "I have those in my toolkit right?" and any reasonable GM goes "yeah sure", letting you bind whatever hands you need to bind and get back to the game. Their pricing isn't important because they're not an important item (even a stimpack is far more important than a bloody zip tie), so they cost nothing. You just have them when it makes remote sense. This isn't a game where you track every last credit.

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50 minutes ago, Silim said:

Zip ties are the kinda **** where your mechanic goes "I have those in my toolkit right?" and any reasonable GM goes "yeah sure", letting you bind whatever hands you need to bind and get back to the game. Their pricing isn't important because they're not an important item (even a stimpack is far more important than a bloody zip tie), so they cost nothing. You just have them when it makes remote sense. This isn't a game where you track every last credit.

It's about providing a GAME MECHANIC that you can buy and have without lugging around a toolkit (in particular I'm trying to keep below a total of 2 enc, because of ascetic spec, and my character is already carrying a lightsaber and blaster pistol so need a 0 enc option)

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4 minutes ago, Silim said:

If you're an Ascetic, it wouldn't make much sense for you to be carrying zip ties.

The character is a zen eminently practical guy, doesn't carry anything that doesn't fit on a utility belt, zip ties are crazy useful so go with the eminently practical/zen/that-was-obvious-why-didn't-i-think-of-it theme, I'd take mesh tape but it doesn't fit  in a utility belt pouch.

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This game (narratively) tracks ammunition (spare reloads). I don't think it's crazy to have an item for bulk restraints instead of just hand-waving as always having it as part of your toolkit. If you leaf through all of the gear in Core and supplements, there's quite a bit of stuff more menial then zip ties.

I just picked up the top supplement on my stack of books, flipped to the first piece of gear, and found Foamcast. It's literally just a can of hardening foam. Something you might find in a toolkit.

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According to wikipedia Ty Raps (aka Zip Ties) were invented in 1958 by the Thomas & Betts electrical company.

Sooooo, that means they weren't available a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away . . .  ;)

 

But seriously, they are used by Law Enforcement as a cheap alternative to binders so you could easily use the binder stats.  However, as TheMensch pointed out, these plastic ties aren't all that indestructible.  With a knife or other sharp tool, getting them removed is easy (simple?) with no difficulty.  

Getting out of them when you don't have any tools and a cop is looming over you with a sub-machine gun barking "Don't move or I'll shoot you" makes the task a bit more difficult.

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On 12/14/2018 at 2:42 PM, Sturn said:

Foamcast. It's literally just a can of hardening foam.

And also probably usable as makeshift hand restraints in a pinch. Encasing someone's hands in hardened foam should be fairly quick and effective, depending on how fast it hardens and how hard it gets. ;)

Edited by penpenpen

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