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LukeZZ

Privileged Access to a Technique Group

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A Rank 1 Kaito Shrine Keeper has Privileged Access to the Technique Group "Rank 1 Air Invocations".

So he can learn all Rank 1 Air Invocations?

If did not learn all Rank 1 Air Invocations, can at Rank 2 learn the remaining Rank 1 Air Invocations?

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1. Yes

2. At rank 2 he can still spend experience to get them, but he only gets 'half credit' towards rank advancement for doing so.  You only get full credit towards advancement buying the things listed in your current rank. Not the things listed in a previous rank.  So get 'em while they're hot! :)

[Edit] Unlike franwax I didn't look at the FAQ before answering, so I defer to his answer.

 

 

Edited by easl

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Yes, at R1 they have access to all R1 Air invocations. But according to the FAQ released after the Core Rulebook, once they make it to R2 they cannot anymore. Seems privileged accesses are a time-limited offer!

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30 minutes ago, Franwax said:

Yes, at R1 they have access to all R1 Air invocations. But according to the FAQ released after the Core Rulebook, once they make it to R2 they cannot anymore. Seems privileged accesses are a time-limited offer!

You honestly could make it that they can buy priviledged techniques anytime once they reach the rank to unlock them, but without it counting for school advancement if bought later.

It is a narrative game after all, the rules are merely there to "tell a story" and are not meant to be taken as written or in a logical way.

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Oh yes I agree. It does seem a bit weird to me tbh. Maybe there is some game balance consideration (the Kaito needs to chose carefully which Air spell they want, because they can’t get them all...). 

This said, easl’s interpretation is still true for “early access” techs, like a bushi who gets to buy heart piercing strike at rank 2. They can still get it at rank 3 without counting for advancement. 

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2 hours ago, LukeZZ said:

So, you buy all Rank 1 Air Kiho, Then, when you are Rank 2, a new manual hits "the road", with new Kiho... too late?

I think I'll keep them "backward compatible".

Maybe Rogukani school sensei are a bit like college professors; they don't want to be teaching you basic algebra in their calculus class. Learn the rank 1 stuff you need to learn before you get to rank 2, because they aren't going to look happily on your request to teach it after you get there. :)

Still, the Kaito are in a bit of an unusually limiting spot compared to other schools.

 

 

 

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Kaito is a strange beast: maybe Privileged Access should only be granted to specific techniques, not to technique groups. Otherwise those groups became almost like additional groups of "Techniques Available".

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On 12/6/2018 at 3:36 AM, LukeZZ said:

A Rank 1 Kaito Shrine Keeper has Privileged Access to the Technique Group "Rank 1 Air Invocations".

So he can learn all Rank 1 Air Invocations?

If did not learn all Rank 1 Air Invocations, can at Rank 2 learn the remaining Rank 1 Air Invocations?

Access to All...  but they cannot actually learn all, unless the GM is using the training required to rank up option.

At 3 per, and 20 needed to rank up, they can at most take 8 - one in char gen, plus 7 more with experience.

And no more than 10 water invocations in rank 3.

 

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25 minutes ago, AK_Aramis said:

Access to All...  but they cannot actually learn all, unless the GM is using the training required to rank up option.

At 3 per, and 20 needed to rank up, they can at most take 8 - one in char gen, plus 7 more with experience.

And no more than 10 water invocations in rank 3.

 

which is weird because you could only take invocations instead of skills/rings etc and end up having more invocations at higher rank. it is choices, but it is questionable way to design it imo. for example, if a PC character die, and he decide to make a new one but you guys are all rank 4 so the GM says "ok make a rank 4 character" the player could "optimise" his new character by taking more invocations when hes allowed to and then take rings when he doesnt need invocations etc.

its not a big deal, not a game breaker, but it is 100% weak design imo.

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6 hours ago, AK_Aramis said:

The "Make a rank 4," still requires adherence to the restrictions - note that experience spends are in the character generation chapter.

so you wouldn't ask him to make a rank 4 character but you would ask him to make a character with a certain amount of XP. but I could still decide to optimise my spendings to get the max amount of invocations etc.

again, no big deal, not game breaking, but bad design nevertheless.

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What Avatar meant is that when building a new character with a lot of additional starting XP, you don't have to care about making the character "playable" after each purchase. Therefore, you can buy stuff in an order to end up with a maximized character, that would not necessarily have made sense every step of the way; and Kaito is a school where you can particularly use this. While playing a Kaito from rank 1, you will probably not invest all 20 XP on invocations only. But if you build a Kaito with 100 additional XP to make it an early rank 4 one, you can decide to spend most of rank 1 XP towards air invocations, then buy skills and rings during rank 2, and once again purchase mostly water invocations during rank 3.

That being said, this is a problem that most RPGs have in some way or other, where building a high-level character lets you make builds that may not be playable at each step.

Anyway, this is not a problem for me, since my GM lets us buy stuff accessible in previous rank if we need to (though they are now considered out-of-curriculum, so worth half XP). The rationale being that sensei will not disappear, and we are not a bunch of players normally seeking to abuse and break a game...

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2 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

so you wouldn't ask him to make a rank 4 character but you would ask him to make a character with a certain amount of XP. but I could still decide to optimise my spendings to get the max amount of invocations etc.

again, no big deal, not game breaking, but bad design nevertheless.

An optimized "create a rank 4 character" build is nothing like an optimized normal build. You'd spend massive amounts on rings and make sure all your spendings are done so they wouldn't mesh with the curriculum, pretty much the opposite of what you'd normally do. Advanced character builds should always be XP based. 

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2 minutes ago, Agasha Kanetake said:

What Avatar meant is that when building a new character with a lot of additional starting XP, you don't have to care about making the character "playable" after each purchase. Therefore, you can buy stuff in an order to end up with a maximized character, that would not necessarily have made sense every step of the way; and Kaito is a school where you can particularly use this. While playing a Kaito from rank 1, you will probably not invest all 20 XP on invocations only. But if you build a Kaito with 100 additional XP to make it an early rank 4 one, you can decide to spend most of rank 1 XP towards air invocations, then buy skills and rings during rank 2, and once again purchase mostly water invocations during rank 3.

That being said, this is a problem that most RPGs have in some way or other, where building a high-level character lets you make builds that may not be playable at each step.

Anyway, this is not a problem for me, since my GM lets us buy stuff accessible in previous rank if we need to (though they are now considered out-of-curriculum, so worth half XP). The rationale being that sensei will not disappear, and we are not a bunch of players normally seeking to abuse and break a game...

wlecome to the forums. you and me will be best friends.

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One last thought, and possibly the reason behind this choice from FFG, is that with titles (and other future concepts using curriculum that may be released later), having access to all the techniques in your completed ranks/curriculum might allow you to have access to too many things.

For example, a shugenja that enrolls to become an Emerald Magistrate, will have access to rank 1-2 kata, so now they have access to something like 75+% of techniques in the core rulebook. At least, it is limited to a certain amount of XP spent, and let's hope fitness and performance will look appealing enough... This is the only example we have with only one book out, but we might see more game-breaking stuff in future releases.

Anyway, your GM can always strike down that rule as nonsense for now (like mine does), or tone it down one way or another, but at least they have a strong argument should they want to back up and establish limits later.

26 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

wlecome to the forums. you and me will be best friends.

Thanks!

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6 hours ago, Agasha Kanetake said:

That being said, this is a problem that most RPGs have in some way or other, where building a high-level character lets you make builds that may not be playable at each step

Definitely agreed. This used to be a thing with the 40k RPGs when mixing Deathwatch (Space Marines) and Ascension (high level Inquisition) - despite the superiority of some of the astartes-specific gear, people often didn't get just how broken a 13,000 XP 'tailored' character can be if you jump straight there - for example, skipping weapon training talents for 'lower grade' stuff in favour of exotic stuff your ascension-level character can start with.

On ‎12‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 11:01 PM, Avatar111 said:

for example, if a PC character die, and he decide to make a new one but you guys are all rank 4 so the GM says "ok make a rank 4 character" the player could "optimise" his new character by taking more invocations when hes allowed to and then take rings when he doesnt need invocations etc.

They could. On the other hand, whilst they'd have a slight edge due to an 'optimised' high level build compared to players who'd 'fought their way up' from rank 1, they'd have no better Honour, Glory or Status than their rank 1 equivalent, and no Titles, since those can all only be earned with gameplay.

By comparison, the 'experienced' characters might well have multiple extra advantages, title abilities and techniques bought via title curriculae.

Whether those two 'balance out' to make the new and old characters on par is a balancing act which will depend on how often the GM hands out such things, so will vary from table to table, but it's not something to overlook.

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12 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

By comparison, the 'experienced' characters might well have multiple extra advantages, title abilities and techniques bought via title curriculae.

On the flip side, they could also have accumulated Flaws, Infamy or... Scar disadvantages ;)

The last one is the most likely, except for Flaws if you’re a Scorpion.

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