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Cloaker

Trick Shot should have scaling point cost for ships with alternate firing arcs.

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It's kind of a lazy upgrade that can become a crutch. Crack Shot is one point and requires skill. Can't change the wording of the cards. So raising the points could probably balance it a bit. Maybe have it scaling like engine upgrade or expert handling. If you have a turret or secondary arc like firespray it should cost a bit more methinks. 

Small base alternate arc ships 3 points. 

Medium Base 4

Large Base 5

 

Just my opinion. It's okay to flame me. But this card sure does get played alot. Good morning everyone. 

 

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I'm not going to flame you, but I will disagree! I think a card like Trick Shot is perfect, and here is why. It is a useful card that gets plenty of play (your claim), but it does not break the game or give anyone some absurd advantage. Isn't that what we want? Usable cards that add a benefit but aren't overly powerful I thought is a goal of this game.

Why raise the points? So that it won't be used as much or at all? Then it's just a card that just sits in our binders.

I don't disagree that ships with a rotating arc might benefit more from this card. I'm not sure, though, how base size influences anything. But I think that putting a point scaling on a lot many cards for a lot of different reasons can become a bit of a nightmare, even when using an app/website.

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Trickshot is the ultimate filler. Want to provide area control in niche cases? Use trickshot to fill a missing slot, daring an opponent to gain an extra green against you. Crackshot is for swarms, Marksmanship is for Seyn, and Ruthless is if you have a lot of cheap health. Trickshot is the universal 1pt filler, as these other upgrades carry slightly less value on most ships. It is taken because it is cheap, for when you can't fit in the likes of Fearless, Selfless, Swarm Tactics, Juke, Predator, Elusive, Lone Wolf, Saturation Salvo, i.e: das gude stuffe.

This man will lose his marbles when people are awed by the true value of Heroic and staple it to Finn Falcons and every single X-Wing.

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I don't think base size gives any advantage with TS.  If anything, a large ship could have more trouble using it, since there's more surface area to draw a closest-path line around the obstacle.  

Yes, TS is most beneficial to ships with turrets, but they're already paying a price for that turret with less attack dice, rotate action, etc, so I might argue that the turret price is paid and balanced, so why penalize them again?

I had been running TS in a scum list on Boba and Palob, but found I just wasn't using it with Boba and got rid of it.  Palob got some advantage with it if I was keeping him on the periphery in support, but even then it was here and there.  I think it gets thrown in a lot casually just to fill a slot for cheap.  In competitive play, I don't know that's it's showing up as much where every point can matter.

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Trick Shot being 0 points was a mistake in 1e.  FFG continued this mistake by having it only 1 point in 2e.

  • What's easier, having an obstructed shot, or getting something in a bullseye arc?  Obstructed Shot, mostly.
  • What's better, rolling an extra die, or rerolling a die?  Rolling an extra die.
  • What's cheaper, one point or two points?  One point.

Trick Shot is easier, better, and cheaper than Predator.

I wouldn't have variable pricing, however.

I don't think there's enough of a net benefit to the game for most proposed uses of variable pricing.  It isn't like the Lancer gains more from Trick Shot than the HWK.  Single front-arc ships gain less from Trick Shot, but how much does it add to the game if it remained 1-point on ships with only the "V" arc?  Ships like that generally don't take Trick Shot at 1 point.  Maybe TIE Phantoms would use Trick Shot, if Juke got massively nerfed, but with the bids most Phantom lists run these days...

I'd just make it 3 points, period.  There isn't much gained by having to remember different prices for Trick Shot, or having to program the prices into the App.

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It's a reasonable thought, Cloaker, but like others I think I have to disagree.

I think I'd still try Trick Shot (with reservations) if it costed two, and still run it on Rebel Han, but if it costed three or more I'd have to pass on it, even on Han (barring wiggle room). It just doesn't trigger very often (unless I suck).

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The reason why trick shot is so cheap is because it is one of the few upgrades with a very  hard counter: seismic charges.

 

I have had some great hits with Han, shooting up to 6 dice in an opponent.  I have also had Han throwing 2 dice attacks through the entire game because my opponent decided to just blow up asteroids and save himself the trouble.

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10 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Trick Shot being 0 points was a mistake in 1e.  FFG continued this mistake by having it only 1 point in 2e.

  • What's easier, having an obstructed shot, or getting something in a bullseye arc?  Obstructed Shot, mostly.
  • What's better, rolling an extra die, or rerolling a die?  Rolling an extra die.
  • What's cheaper, one point or two points?  One point.

Trick Shot is easier, better, and cheaper than Predator.

I wouldn't have variable pricing, however.

I don't think there's enough of a net benefit to the game for most proposed uses of variable pricing.  It isn't like the Lancer gains more from Trick Shot than the HWK.  Single front-arc ships gain less from Trick Shot, but how much does it add to the game if it remained 1-point on ships with only the "V" arc?  Ships like that generally don't take Trick Shot at 1 point.  Maybe TIE Phantoms would use Trick Shot, if Juke got massively nerfed, but with the bids most Phantom lists run these days...

I'd just make it 3 points, period.  There isn't much gained by having to remember different prices for Trick Shot, or having to program the prices into the App.

Meh, the EPT slot is mostly dead at this point. We see enough ships in competitive lists that have access to EPTs and aren't running them despite some 1pters being available that I'm pretty hesitant to call foul on a cheap and situational one like trick shot. Even more so because few successful builds revolve around EPTs. Han and Dash will certainly break out trick shot, the ships with free evades consistently use Juke and we occasionally see some squad leader action, but that's it. There is no EPT that average Joe pilot in the mid PS level cares about and trick shot going up doesn't change the top offenders at all unless you price it into unplayability.

 

It's cheap and the effect is kind of cool, but situational and hard to intentionally plan around, but it also works on everything. As far as I'm concerned, keeping trick shot as is, is not breaking anything or removing other potential options because, bluntly, the other options are a dumpster fire of mediocrity.

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10 hours ago, spacelion said:

Does Kavil with Trick Shot roll 2 extra dice when shooting through an obstacle with a turret not forward facing?

Kavil's ability applies to his turret arc regardless of facing (any non-forward arc specific weapon actually) and yes, it stacks with Trick Shot. So Trickshot Kavil rolls 4 dice from his turret (assuming dorsal turret and not ICT) when shooting through an obstacle.

From the Official Rulings thread in the Rules Questions sub-forum: 

Q: Does Kavil (Scum, BTL-A4 Y-wing) roll an additional attack die when attacking with a turret weapon when the turret arc indicator is set to his front arc?

A: Yes. Additionally, note that Kavil would roll an additional attack die when performing an attack that specifies bullseye arc, even though the target is also by definition in his front arc.

 

Direct link: 

 

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predator, crackshot, marksmanship, and outmaneuver dont even work on ships without a native front arc.

Well, technically the 3 bullseye cards do since thats not a firing arc thats just a printed area to check with, but theyre also primary weapon only so turrets for the most part cant use them anyway.

Trickshot isnt a problem though imo. The only targets that it feels strong against are 0-1agi ships, which are suffering for a myriad of reasons not related to trickshot.

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