Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
LukeZZ

Kaito Shrine Keeper [Monk] School has no access to Kiho?!?

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, Black_Rabbit_Inle said:

 Soshi are known for using their spells in courtly situations to assist the other scorpion courtiers, which means they have the same basic reason for being "courtiers" that the Shiba Yojimbo do.  What actually surprises me here is the Daidoji not getting the courtier tag, as if Crane Yojimbo aren't trained in proper court etiquette.  To me, the Kakita duelist should have been [Bushi] and the Iron warrior should have been [Bushi, courtier].  Shinjo outriders getting the courtier tag is a little weird also, as they are mostly meant to be scouts.. they have exactly one "courtier" duty, which is delivering messages..  Other than that, the Unicorn would hand all of their official courting to the Ide.

  While not canon, I think when it comes to the Kaito we could assume that the Kami listen to them because the Kaito fight to defend the Kami. As an off-shoot of the Isawa, we can assume that the Kaito have the "Innate magical bloodline" that all shugenja have, but they seem to spend more of their time with the practical matters of caring for temples and protecting the spirits rather than studying how to manipulate the spirits like most shugenja.

Yojimbo are trained in courtly etiquette, but that doesn't mean they have a courtly function - that's primarily to avoid them giving offense or otherwise doing something that might be exploited by a political opponent. Champions on the other hand definitely have a courtly function - winning disputes through official duels, or possibly just threatening to do so - and that's usually a job for a Kakita instead of a Daidoji. Still, in my opinion being the court equivalent of an enforcer doesn't make someone a courtier.

The Shiba actually do have a reputation for courtly expertise, in no small part because the Asako have a reputation for prefering to devote themselves to scholarly pursuits and foisting of the responsibilities of representing the Phoenix in court to the other families. 

As for the Soshi being "known for using their spells in courtly situations, that's a reputation I'd love FFG to clarify a bit. What do they do precisely in this regard, and to whom is this known? Because canonically what they do is use shadow magic (I presume the Lying Darkness is not a thing in FFG's Rokugan though, so just illusions in this version of the setting) to manipulate others, and that is not something to advertise, at least not outside the clan (and only with great care within the clan, as out-of-clan marriage would likely spoil the secret at some point). And again, personally I wouldn't consider this to qualify someone to be a courtier either. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Black_Rabbit_Inle said:

To me, the Kakita duelist should have been [Bushi] and the Iron warrior should have been [Bushi, courtier]. 

The Kakita being Bushi/Artisan covers a range of things but iconically (is that a word?) the Kakita Swordsmith.

The Iron Warriors do provide Yojimbo but they're primarily a line military school that also provides bodyguards, whilst the Shiba are bodyguards first and foremost.

15 hours ago, Black_Rabbit_Inle said:

as if Crane Yojimbo aren't trained in proper court etiquette

Well, the 'tag' itself doesn't mean anything. Daidoji do get Shuji access (because they're Crane and will be so trained!) but if a Daidoji was protecting a crane diplomat, you can be certain that official would be more than capable of handling any debates and political intrigues. The Daidoji could participate on their ward's behalf, but since they are also crane samurai, all the Iron Crane normally has to do is lurk in the background looking imposing.

A Shiba Yojimbo, by comparison, is likely to be protecting (apologies to Phoenix fans for the gross stereotypes) a shujenga who thinks the world revolves around the elemental council, a monk with no real idea how the world works outside a shrine, or a deeply self-important librarian. Having to act as a diplomat on behalf of their protectee is far, far more likely for a Shiba than a Daidoji.... 

9 hours ago, nameless ronin said:

(I presume the Lying Darkness is not a thing in FFG's Rokugan though, so just illusions in this version of the setting

Shadow Brands are definitely a thing. That's presumably why they have the Shinobi tag (making them the only one with three 'tags')

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/6/2018 at 8:09 PM, UnitOmega said:

Read The Sword & The Spirits. E-book is like 4 bucks on DriveThru. 

Or I really hope they reprint the fluff stuff in the back in an RPG sourcebook someday, because that's how it's written. But for now, it's in the novella. 

Got the book. Have to say, I was hoping for (but not expecting) something that'd mesh a bit more with the mechanics. Fluff-wise they can't invoke the kami but can become a vessel for them - yet in terms of mechanics they can use any Air, Water or Fire invocation but have no rules for becoming a vessel. On the one hand that keeps things simpel, on the other they have a pretty complicated school curriculum. It is what it is, I guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, mechanics question. The entire page on invocations - particularly the part about offerings - references shugenja, except for the section on importuning (which just talks about characters who know invocation techniques). So, can shrine keepers make spiritual offerings in order to be allowed to make rerolls? And are they supposed to be able to importune invocations (including Earth or Void invocations)? A strict reading of the rules says no to the former and yes to the latter, but it feels odd that it isn't neither or both.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, nameless ronin said:

Ok, mechanics question. The entire page on invocations - particularly the part about offerings - references shugenja, except for the section on importuning (which just talks about characters who know invocation techniques). So, can shrine keepers make spiritual offerings in order to be allowed to make rerolls? And are they supposed to be able to importune invocations (including Earth or Void invocations)? A strict reading of the rules says no to the former and yes to the latter, but it feels odd that it isn't neither or both. 

I suspect the use of the word "Shujenga" there is simply default text; really it should say "character".

Note that if using the rule that any section talking about "the shujenga" means Kaito can't do that when performing invocations, it means the Kaito are immune to Spiritual Backlash. ("When a shugenja’s check generates 3 or more [strife] symbols on kept dice while the shugenja is performing an invocation")

I could see a kaito not having the full range of shujenga skills but the idea of them getting to ignore one of the primary downsides of invocation techniques makes me pretty confident it's an error.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm a bit torn on how I'd want it to be. Simple is better and that means not adding too many exceptions, but I'd also like there to be a clear mechanical difference between shugenja and shrine keepers. Making shrine keepers unable to importune would be simple and, in my opinion, appropriate but the rules are pretty clear they can. In contrast, offerings (and backlash) not applying to shrine keepers doesn't seem appropriate at all. I'll probably end up making shugenja and shrine keepers equal when it comes to using invocations, but it's going to bug me since fluff-wise everything says shrine keepers just can't invoke the kami like shugenja can.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×