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Biophysical

If you feel like the Empire stinks in Hyperspace format, remember that it's not going up against other Empire stuff, or broken Scum or Rebel stuff

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Nah it stinks.

TIE Swarms still get rekt by torps and tsim protons, and vader can't win on his own.

Strikers have no easy way to get red mods, and Reapers are points holes.

Empire is hilariously hosed in this format, literally every one of their competitive ships is removed, whilst Scum retain Boba, Rebels retain ALL of theirs (High PS X Wings and Y Wings), Resistance get excellent options (Trajectory bombers, multiple fully modified torpedoes) and FO get silencers and QD.

Empire is, on paper, terrible in this format, and if you can get Vader to change that against playerrs of equal skill who have access to cheaper I6 repositioning aces (Fenn, Poe, QD, Wedge) well...

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3 minutes ago, Embir82 said:

Who cares about hyperspace format?

I didn't buy conversion kits to see all of my collection goes away because FFG wants to force into this game MTG way of draining players out of their money.
Open format or nothing for me.

Pretty much my viewpoint.  I won't go to hyperspace-only events, and I'm dubious about whether I'd play it even in side events.

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5 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Pretty much my viewpoint.  I won't go to hyperspace-only events, and I'm dubious about whether I'd play it even in side events.

i'm in the same boat, i won't pay travel and hotel fees just to push ships i dislike around the board, although i probably wouldn't mind trying a side event as Hyperspace

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The reason i dont like Hyperspace or Standard is BECAUSE of Vader/TIE swarms.

Its nothing BUT that, with Boba being a close second. Why? Theres no counter to it right now other than just extremely good planning/luck.

Nobody runs TIE swarms with Extended in mind unless they are just wanting a challenge. We got 1 guy that does it but he's clearly trying to force himself to fly better (which works, i did it when i started playing) not play to win at all costs.

Its simply too limited. And its just limited to screw over vet players because theyve made no mention about it cycling out ships/cards to keep it "fresh" - thats going to be its own thing (the custom option in the ap)

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18 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

The reason i dont like Hyperspace or Standard is BECAUSE of Vader/TIE swarms.

Its nothing BUT that, with Boba being a close second. Why? Theres no counter to it right now other than just extremely good planning/luck.

Nobody runs TIE swarms with Extended in mind unless they are just wanting a challenge. We got 1 guy that does it but he's clearly trying to force himself to fly better (which works, i did it when i started playing) not play to win at all costs.

Its simply too limited. And its just limited to screw over vet players because theyve made no mention about it cycling out ships/cards to keep it "fresh" - thats going to be its own thing (the custom option in the ap)

How many second edition events are you pulling from? My local store had been nothing but limited and I would not say vader tie swarm wins everything?  Because actually in that format triple rebel alpha is actually really good too, triple fire spray isn’t bad either, fenn with three fangs isn’t a bad list either. Like and 3 ion y wings isn’t bad either. 

I’ve seen

vader mini swarm

tie swarm

boba fenn shuttle

fenn and 3 fans

triple fire spray isn’t an easy list to beat when a good pilot flies it

3 ship x wing alpha

4 ship rebel efficiency 

and now add a few more ships and more combinations are out there

PLUS points are gonna get re adjusted, what could the other tie advanced look like if they are priced like a striker vader stele duchess tie fighter could be a list? Doesn’t sound bad at all?

there is so little data out there on limited that it is really hard to just say list(x) is too good for the format 

I would have liked a few more ships in hyperspace for sure and it’s probably not perfect....but I don’t think is a bad format in anyway that can’t be fun and challenging, 

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To be completely honest, I LOVE the idea of limited formats 

They did something sorta similar in Warmahordes where you're basically limited to theme forces that restrict which faction models you can field together. I HATED it at first, but it turned out to be a fun creative excercise in balancing the strengths of the force while overcoming its weaknesses

But Warmahordes is currently EXCEPTIONALLY well balanced. Xwing...well, if you shrink the pool while keeping the alpha predator around, you're just shrinking the amount of lists that can effectively fight back

Hopefully Jan patch fixes this.

On a more personal note, the reduced range of options relative to Warmahordes is going to make the format far less appealing to players because they're far less likely to be able to use their favorite ships

Though it was smart if ffg to make THE most iconic ship legal across se three factions 😛

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6 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

On a more personal note, the reduced range of options relative to Warmahordes is going to make the format far less appealing to players because they're far less likely to be able to use their favorite ships

You mean like the Quad Jumper they caught a glimpse of during TFA before it blew up, or the Punisher they never saw, or the HWK which they may vaguely recall from an old PC game?  Wait, it's probably the Phantom, right?  That weird TIE fighter they've never seen.  Nevermind, it's the G1-A.  I totally remember that funky ship that the bug dude flew.  

Can't believe I have to play TIE fighers, X-Wings, the Falcon and Slave I.  So dumb.  

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27 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

List building is easier with fewer options though.  Like, it can't not be.

I don't know about "easier". It means the differences in each list and it's play style, compared to a similar list with different upgrades, will become more apparent. 

Lists won't be able to be all things to all-comers. We'll have to make choices and trade-offs.

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14 minutes ago, gennataos said:

You mean like the Quad Jumper they caught a glimpse of during TFA before it blew up, or the Punisher they never saw, or the HWK which they may vaguely recall from an old PC game?  Wait, it's probably the Phantom, right?  That weird TIE fighter they've never seen.  Nevermind, it's the G1-A.  I totally remember that funky ship that the bug dude flew.  

Can't believe I have to play TIE fighers, X-Wings, the Falcon and Slave I.  So dumb.  

I mean, it IS dumb to conflate gameplay with fluff

It's a game first, and yet another if the COUNTLESS star wars products second. Perceived inability to play iconic ships is a failure of the designers and NOT the existence of other gameplay pieces 

Plus, xwings are fine, boba is SUPER viable, and the scum Falcon is legit 

Plus, what happens when you remove the things that can compete with boba? ...well, hope you like the firespray!

Edited by ficklegreendice

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4 minutes ago, gennataos said:

You mean like the Quad Jumper they caught a glimpse of during TFA before it blew up, or the Punisher they never saw, or the HWK which they may vaguely recall from an old PC game?  Wait, it's probably the Phantom, right?  That weird TIE fighter they've never seen.  Nevermind, it's the G1-A.  I totally remember that funky ship that the bug dude flew.  

Can't believe I have to play TIE fighers, X-Wings, the Falcon and Slave I.  So dumb.  

The favourite ships from the game they've been playing for years and enjoy playing, with unique and interesting mechanics and abilities.  Nobody's claiming that the Phantom is their favourite ship because it was in Rebel Assault, they're claiming it's their favourite ship because it's interesting to fly in THIS game that it's been in for 3 or 4 years.  In some cases, because the miniatures are nice, or because they've put work into painting and modifying them, or the characters are fondly remembered from vanished Legends (in particular, when it comes to the HWK and the Dark Forces series, and Rogue Squadron dudes like Corran).  Ditto everything else you mentioned.

Just now, Q10fanatic said:

I don't know about "easier". It means the differences in each list and it's play style, compared to a similar list with different upgrades, will become more apparent. 

Lists won't be able to be all things to all-comers. We'll have to make choices and trade-offs.

Again, I really don't think your assertion holds water.  It's easier to list build with fewer options, there are fewer traps and it's easier to identify the power cards and counters, and there are fewer weird and weebly lists to account for.  You don't have to worry about being Tractored if there are no Quads, you don't have to worry about being ionised if there are no ion cannons, you don't have to worry about turret kites and token theft if there is none, you don't have to account for cloaking and juke if nothing can use either mechanic effectively, etc etc etc.  I don't see how you get from a less varied pool with more similar ships, to that forcing playstyle differences between those ships.

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54 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

To be completely honest, I LOVE the idea of limited formats 

They did something sorta similar in Warmahordes where you're basically limited to theme forces that restrict which faction models you can field together. I HATED it at first, but it turned out to be a fun creative excercise in balancing the strengths of the force while overcoming its weaknesses

But Warmahordes is currently EXCEPTIONALLY well balanced. Xwing...well, if you shrink the pool while keeping the alpha predator around, you're just shrinking the amount of lists that can effectively fight back

Hopefully Jan patch fixes this.

On a more personal note, the reduced range of options relative to Warmahordes is going to make the format far less appealing to players because they're far less likely to be able to use their favorite ships

Though it was smart if ffg to make THE most iconic ship legal across se three factions 😛

This.

With balance, a limited format isn't an issue.  But FFG often hasn't been responsive in balancing X-Wing.

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FFG's idea of a limited format is "what was released normally, and whats in the conv kits" right now.

Like what Fickle said, limited formats are fine if theyre actually balanced right. Standard is boring because theres no options and 2 of the really big dogs are legal and dont depend on illegal upgrades to be that mean.

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51 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Again, I really don't think your assertion holds water.  It's easier to list build with fewer options, there are fewer traps and it's easier to identify the power cards and counters, and there are fewer weird and weebly lists to account for.  You don't have to worry about being Tractored if there are no Quads, you don't have to worry about being ionised if there are no ion cannons, you don't have to worry about turret kites and token theft if there is none, you don't have to account for cloaking and juke if nothing can use either mechanic effectively, etc etc etc.  I don't see how you get from a less varied pool with more similar ships, to that forcing playstyle differences between those ships.

2

I may end up being wrong. I look at the changes and I think the ceiling has come down on a number of lists, even Boba. This should allow for additional lists to become viable, specifically swarms/heavy swarms which I think have been kept down due to Traj. Sim. Also, Imperials are now the only faction with the Jam action. That is powerful control in a meta where token stacking has become extremely limited and still remains vital for certain lists.

 

If you assume 1 or 2 valid meta lists for each faction, then we're talking about 7 or 8 different top tier lists. That's more variety than lists have to deal with in Extended. Even with fewer options available to each faction, there will be more lists that are viable because the number of factions is increasing. This will also have a Rock/Paper/Scissors effect that should help keep one list from ascending to the top so easily. 

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1 hour ago, gennataos said:

You mean like the Quad Jumper they caught a glimpse of during TFA before it blew up, or the Punisher they never saw, or the HWK which they may vaguely recall from an old PC game?  Wait, it's probably the Phantom, right?  That weird TIE fighter they've never seen.  Nevermind, it's the G1-A.  I totally remember that funky ship that the bug dude flew.  

Can't believe I have to play TIE fighers, X-Wings, the Falcon and Slave I.  So dumb.  

Some people do like more obscure ships as well, for their own reasons. Not everybody holds the iconic ships above all others. 

 

In my case, my favorite ship is the Jumpmaster. I had seen the OT on TV, the prequels on the cinemas, but in my 20s I wasn't a Star Wars fan, but much more into Star Trek. I didn't really embrace Star Wars and realize how coll the universe really was until I got into PnP RPGs and played in a 2 years long Star Wars Saga Edition campaign, where the group's ship was a Jumpmaster. That ship will always mean something for me due to this, no matter how obscure it is for everybody else :)

 

 

Back on topic, I also share the concern that the hyperspace format isn't exactly balanced. Addutionally, regardless whether the current one is balanced or a mess of epic proportions, FFG will need to produce a balanced hyperspace list every 6 months or how often they want to change it. Given their track record, I'm not really confident they can do that. 

 

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No Miranda, Lowhhrick, or Fenn. This is everything we have always wanted 🤣

EDIT: Rutheless Vermeil and two PS1 reapers is pretty good. Been running that with Ruthless Echo and I just send my reapers in to block/jam and get range 1 and ruthless the crap out of their HP. Sub Echo for Dutchess or something and its not a "bad" list

Edited by wurms

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Can someone please explain to me or direct me to where I can find info on what this latest development means? Is this an expiration date on all the conversion kits I purchased or is this something I don't need to worry about unless I wanna play hyperspace? I mean will all the new releases and factions from here forward be compatible with the conversion kits or what? 

 

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9 minutes ago, Q10fanatic said:

I may end up being wrong. I look at the changes and I think the ceiling has come down on a number of lists, even Boba. This should allow for additional lists to become viable, specifically swarms/heavy swarms which I think have been kept down due to Traj. Sim. Also, Imperials are now the only faction with the Jam action. That is powerful control in a meta where token stacking has become extremely limited and still remains vital for certain lists.

 

If you assume 1 or 2 valid meta lists for each faction, then we're talking about 7 or 8 different top tier lists. That's more variety than lists have to deal with in Extended. Even with fewer options available to each faction, there will be more lists that are viable because the number of factions is increasing. This will also have a Rock/Paper/Scissors effect that should help keep one list from ascending to the top so easily. 

Upsilon has Jam.

Which heavy swarms?  The only heavy swarm ships in the format are Strikers and they'll get rekt by torp alphas and tsim bombs.  Howlferno swarm stands a chance, maybe, buy high ps torps still ruin it (one gets tanked by Iden, then you start losing ships), and so do those same trajectory bombs.

You;'re talkign about 7 or 8 top tier lists, but you're talking about the same amount just in Scum in extended, and basically none of those lists in Hyperspace do much... different from each other.  TSim bombs are basically the only things that have any differentiation, 3 out of the 5 factions do high PS torps well (4 including the Fang), everyone does high PS repositioning/arc dodging, etc.

A whole mess of thing you have to take account of for extended are just... missing.   Cloaking/decloaking.  Massed tractor control.  Stress control.  Significant token stacking. etc etc.

 

Seriously, where are you seeing 7 or 8 top tier lists with significant differentiation?  What are those lists?

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