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Marinealver

Hyperspace Format Posted (Your favorite ship BANNED!)

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32 minutes ago, SOTL said:

My sense is that it's probably going to be 70/30 split towards Extended being dominant, with the odd store here or there where Hyperspace really takes off and it's 30/70.  It'll take Hyperspace proving it's the more interesting and fun format (which I'm confident it will be) to push towards a 50/50 split.

Anyone who intends to seriously compete in a Hyperspace Qualifier at a system open needs to be fluent in the format, which will push it somewhat from the top down.

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3 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

well, to be fair, people may be worried that it'll be THE competitive format

which may be a problem if your lgs wants to practice for competitive events and therefore lock you out of your cool ships

Personally believe that the format will only truly be worth exploring once we have ALL the factions out and ready to contribute to the variety of the scene, but that's just my opinion. Things may definitely change if the jan points rebalance lands properly

That's true. I doubt though that anyone will be completely locked out their favorite ships for a long time, besides the faithful few of us Epic fans. 

My one concern is that boba fett lists can port over without any real loss, but the points balancing will arrive soon after, so who knows. I'll be happy to have a little break from constant Redline. 

I'll be a First Order/Empire/Resistance/Rebel collector, with First Order being my primary competitive faction.

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4 minutes ago, Hobbyist said:

My one concern is that boba fett lists can port over without any real loss, but the points balancing will arrive soon after, so who knows.

🤨 Anything involving Palob, Kavil, 4-LOM or Quads is straight up out (none of them are Hyperspace legal). No Iggy D or 0-0-0 crew (has to combo Perceptive with Han gunner now, no other token stack choice from crew). Debris Gambit is out so can't toss in an Evade with a Focus (via Han) anymore while hugging rocks. That is a pretty big cut to what I've seen him with. Closest he can get to what he had is getting coordinated a reinforce, completing a blue then relying on Han + Perceptive for double focus...

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2 hours ago, SOTL said:

My sense is that it's probably going to be 70/30 split towards Extended being dominant, with the odd store here or there where Hyperspace really takes off and it's 30/70.  It'll take Hyperspace proving it's the more interesting and fun format (which I'm confident it will be) to push towards a 50/50 split.

For tourneys where its the organizers choice, I'd say more like 5/6 will be extended, shifting a bit after Wave 3. People paid for ships and conversions, they are going to want to fly them. 

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42 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

🤨 Anything involving Palob, Kavil, 4-LOM or Quads is straight up out (none of them are Hyperspace legal). No Iggy D or 0-0-0 crew (has to combo Perceptive with Han gunner now, no other token stack choice from crew). Debris Gambit is out so can't toss in an Evade with a Focus (via Han) anymore while hugging rocks. That is a pretty big cut to what I've seen him with. Closest he can get to what he had is getting coordinated a reinforce, completing a blue then relying on Han + Perceptive for double focus...

All true

However, he's still got the backing of excellent fangs (one named + one generic), potentially a blocking yt1300, and the rather useful l3-37 (currently overshadowed by other crew, but quite a good combo for enabling Han gunner and mitigating a high dice attack)

 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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2 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

No Iggy D or 0-0-0 crew (has to combo Perceptive with Han gunner now, no other token stack choice from crew). Debris Gambit is out so can't toss in an Evade with a Focus (via Han) anymore while hugging rocks. That is a pretty big cut to what I've seen him with. Closest he can get to what he had is getting coordinated a reinforce, completing a blue then relying on Han + Perceptive for double focus...

He runs fine with just Perceptive, no coordinate needed.

Edited by prauxim

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14 hours ago, SOTL said:

No we don't, because we know a points review is coming in January.

These are the placeholder 'for now' points.  Just like for all anyone knows the Hyperspace legality column is also 'for now'.

Personally I think the points will change and legality doesn't change, but either way Hyperspace won't matter really until Wave 3 is out.  If the sky is falling it's only falling really slowly, just chill out.

Well you might as well say we don't know the points for Wave 3 then. The points are out, just because they are subject to change (and that was already set at the announcement) still it doesn't mean that we are going to be seeing some extreme changes like Luke and Boba +20 points each. We got a good idea on the point range of the ships.

Besides it is not the points that I am concerned, it is the legality that is what I am drawing attention to. Now yes the legality can change in January just as well as points but as far as everything looks for January the legality is set. 

13 hours ago, SOTL said:

My sense is that it's probably going to be 70/30 split towards Extended being dominant, with the odd store here or there where Hyperspace really takes off and it's 30/70.  It'll take Hyperspace proving it's the more interesting and fun format (which I'm confident it will be) to push towards a 50/50 split.

Well Extended is the more popular format (I said popular, I didn't say everyone likes it). 2nd edition right now is unplayable especially if you are playing any of the Wave 2 factions (scum is wave 1 laser brain). Hyperspace is 2nd edition plus but it is closer to 2nd edition and from what was discussed in podcasts it seems to be the format OP is leaning towards.

(note: the words in the parentheses are not directed at @SOTL they are directed at those who are going to be picking apart a post just for an argument).

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On ‎12‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 1:53 PM, Lightdir said:

well since all of my lists are banned ( yes not one ship is approved for this garbage format) i am beginning to ask myself why i even purchased the conversion kits and core kit for 2.0.

Well for Resistance and 1st Order they are a decent value. But for Rebels, Scum and Empire it does get more questionable. Rebels gets you a Falcon, Empire gets you Early Access to the TIE Striker, You might as well not have bought the Scum Conversion kit at all.

Face it the reason why Hyperspace Exists is because 2nd editions is rather a garbage format. Don't know what happened where 1stOrder only gets one ship and Resistance gets 2. But given a choice between Hyperspace or 2nd Edition, it would definitely be Hyperspace. Still the issue is Hyperspace is a little too close to 2nd edition format.

Edited by Marinealver

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I can't believe I am in total agreement with Marinealver.  Hyperspace format seems like total garbage to me.  I have played in a 2.0 only tournament and it was no fun being an empire player.  I have played in 1 extended format tournament and it was a blast.  I won't be wasting my time or money on 2.0/hyperspace format.

It would be different if 2.0/hyperspace was SUPER balanced.  But its not balanced.  So I would rather we have access to all of our ships and upgrade cards.

We haven't seen a points update ever.  So moving to an app to easily update the points was just marketing.  FFG is not taking advantage of the app - well because the app is total garbage too.  So I guess FFG can't update the points too much because we have to give a chance for the heroes of the story all of the 3rd party app devs to get the points list and update their list builders.

Edited by Lace Jetstreamer
added stuff

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On 12/2/2018 at 7:53 AM, Lightdir said:

well since all of my lists are banned ( yes not one ship is approved for this garbage format) i am beginning to ask myself why i even purchased the conversion kits and core kit for 2.0.

Because you get to use them whenever you like outside of exactly Hyperspace events?

I'm in a similar spot with all of my 2.0 lists either being gone or needing complete rebuilds for hyperspace events, but this is fine. I'm excited to have to try new things and build new lists within these restrictions.

Extended is still there, it's just not the only format anymore. Stop panicking, everyone.

49 minutes ago, Lace Jetstreamer said:

We haven't seen a points update ever.  So moving to an app to easily update the points was just marketing.  FFG is not taking advantage of the app - well because the app is total garbage too.  So I guess FFG can't update the points too much because we have to give a chance for the heroes of the story all of the 3rd party app devs to get the points list and update their list builders.

 

We have known for months that there will be updates every 6 months, starting in January. FFG quite rightly aren't going to just snap-adjust the points whenever a major event goes by.

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Everyone one is missing the point that Hyperspace format allows new players to join the game competitively. The only way to compete in Extended currently is to already be a current player with a collection and conversion kits or ebay a bunch of 2nd hand models. The barrier to entry is too high for new players in extended and will lead to communities dying off without fresh players. Outside of the very specific events, run the format that suits your play group and stop complaining on the internet. 

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8 hours ago, NervousSam said:

Everyone one is missing the point that Hyperspace format allows new players to join the game competitively. The only way to compete in Extended currently is to already be a current player with a collection and conversion kits or ebay a bunch of 2nd hand models. The barrier to entry is too high for new players in extended and will lead to communities dying off without fresh players. Outside of the very specific events, run the format that suits your play group and stop complaining on the internet. 

The barrier to entry is ALWAYS high in these types of games.  Did that stop me from getting into x-wing 1.0?  Nope.  Not to mention, new players aren't likely to jump straight away into highly competitive tournaments.  The reason for the garbage hyperspace format is simple, FFG wants to push product sales of their newly released ships.  It has zero to do with new players.

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26 minutes ago, Lace Jetstreamer said:

The barrier to entry is ALWAYS high in these types of games.  Did that stop me from getting into x-wing 1.0?  Nope.  Not to mention, new players aren't likely to jump straight away into highly competitive tournaments.  The reason for the garbage hyperspace format is simple, FFG wants to push product sales of their newly released ships.  It has zero to do with new players.

I have to disagree. I don’t think Hyperspace is garbage, it is a new format which offers both old and new players to play from a limited pool while also allowing them opportunities to engage in OP formats. While the Hyperspace format may draw in new players is it only because of it I don’t think so. 

The ability to fly ships and pilots that are iconic might be more of the driving force, and right now the easiest way to get Vader and Luke specifically is to by the core and a TIE Advanced and a few X-Wing and your Hyperspace ready.

i can tell you I prefer the Hyperspace Format, it’s simplistic, straightforward and very defined, it’ll rotate ships and points will be adjusted accordingly. That seems very fun, balanced and opportunistic. It’ll be a challenge. 

Where I agree is the business model Asmodee is a business X-WING and OP, product all depends on the bottom line. When it is no longer profitable there will no longer be any XWING.

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9 hours ago, NervousSam said:

Everyone one is missing the point that Hyperspace format allows new players to join the game competitively. The only way to compete in Extended currently is to already be a current player with a collection and conversion kits or ebay a bunch of 2nd hand models. The barrier to entry is too high for new players in extended and will lead to communities dying off without fresh players. Outside of the very specific events, run the format that suits your play group and stop complaining on the internet. 

It takes byuying all of a core set, an x wing, and a y wing to compete tho.

The barrier to entry if you want EVERYTHING is high.  The barrier to entry for competition is equally low in Extended and in Hyperspace.

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2 hours ago, Cgriffith said:

The ability to fly ships and pilots that are iconic might be more of the driving force, and right now the easiest way to get Vader and Luke specifically is to by the core and a TIE Advanced and a few X-Wing and your Hyperspace ready.

You can do exactly that in extended format.  Nothing is stopping anyone from flying Luke or Vader in extended.

2 hours ago, Cgriffith said:

i can tell you I prefer the Hyperspace Format, it’s simplistic, straightforward and very defined, it’ll rotate ships and points will be adjusted accordingly. That seems very fun, balanced and opportunistic. It’ll be a challenge. 

The extended format is actually more straightforward because there are no bans.  If you have a card, you can play it.  How can it be any simpler?

Hyperspace is actually a lot more work figuring out what cards are allowed or not.  It also doesn't help that the official FFG app is garbage.  So you need to download the PDF to figure it out.  Maybe our hero 3rd party app developers will include this at some point because FFG is clearly incapable of delivering a high quality app.

The hyperspace format balance is just as broken as extended.  FFG has made ZERO changes to the points since the initial release.  If you think hyperspace is balanced, than extended is surely balanced.  

2 hours ago, Cgriffith said:

Where I agree is the business model Asmodee is a business X-WING and OP, product all depends on the bottom line. When it is no longer profitable there will no longer be any XWING.

Forcing the garbage hyperspace onto people will have the opposite effect.  I think most of us want to play with the ships we invested hundreds of dollars in.  I know I won't be playing and I know many others who won't be playing hyperspace.  If all the tournaments turn into hyperspace, than I suspect FFG to continue to lose players.  So hyperspace could be the very cause of the 'no longer profitable' event.

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42 minutes ago, Varyag said:

Hyperspace looks great. A pure Second Edition format would be the best though. I want to experience the different metas as more ships are re-released. We all wanted to go back to waves 1-3 of X-Wing so here is the chance.

except it isn't like Wave 1-3, instead of my precious squint FFG gave us Reapers and Strikers.

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3 hours ago, Darth evil said:

except it isn't like Wave 1-3, instead of my precious squint FFG gave us Reapers and Strikers.

Sure, but I really like Strikers.

My problem is, as an Empire primary player, that what is available 2.0 format feels so restrictive. They are the least maneuverable faction. Hyperspace is a little better as it is adding Strikers. But the reality is that until the Lambda is OP legal any non Vader X1 is unplayable. 

The only thing that makes Hyperspace even plausible for me is the Striker and Reaper. But I also think that the Empire sorely is lagging behind Rebels and especially Scum for Hyperspace viability. They have, by far, the most versatile options. The Firespray, YT-1300 (far better than the Rebel version point for point), Coordinate shuttle, Fang, and even the interesting looking Mining Guild Tie. So many more interesting and competitively viable options than other factions.

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17 hours ago, Varyag said:

Hyperspace looks great. A pure Second Edition format would be the best though. I want to experience the different metas as more ships are re-released. We all wanted to go back to waves 1-3 of X-Wing so here is the chance.

I think I found someone who wants to have words with you.

giphy.webp

Anyways, lets face it, a pure 2nd edition format won't be viable  until After Wave 4 is released assuming Resistance and 1stOrder get more ships.

I mean, if this is your entire faction

swz26_main.png

then you don't have that much of a table top miniatures game.

Edited by Marinealver

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5 hours ago, millertime059 said:

Sure, but I really like Strikers.

My problem is, as an Empire primary player, that what is available 2.0 format feels so restrictive. They are the least maneuverable faction. Hyperspace is a little better as it is adding Strikers. But the reality is that until the Lambda is OP legal any non Vader X1 is unplayable. 

The only thing that makes Hyperspace even plausible for me is the Striker and Reaper. But I also think that the Empire sorely is lagging behind Rebels and especially Scum for Hyperspace viability. They have, by far, the most versatile options. The Firespray, YT-1300 (far better than the Rebel version point for point), Coordinate shuttle, Fang, and even the interesting looking Mining Guild Tie. So many more interesting and competitively viable options than other factions.

Empire got the shaft in Hyperspace, but as a aces-loving pilot I'm planning to fly the bang out of First Order. Would recommend the same to all Empire fans out there..

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On 11/30/2018 at 7:38 PM, svelok said:

Anyone who intends to seriously compete in a Hyperspace Qualifier at a system open needs to be fluent in the format, which will push it somewhat from the top down.

Has it been confirmed that the Hyperspace Qualifier will follow Hyperspace rules? 

 

That would be a bummer for those of us needing to fly to a System Open, as now more lists would be needed for a single event (therefore more luggage space). 

Edited by LordBlades

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11 hours ago, Marinealver said:

I think I found someone who wants to have words with you.

giphy.webp

Anyways, lets face it, a pure 2nd edition format won't be viable  until After Wave 4 is released assuming Resistance and 1stOrder get more ships.

I mean, if this is your entire faction

swz26_main.png

then you don't have that much of a table top miniatures game.

And? You could play a swarm, a swarm with aces, or just aces with just that ship. A pure second edition format is definately viable.

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