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14 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

Disney has to approve everything. None of this stuff gets printed without approval from the licensor. If the approvals department wants Poe and Rey to be "better" than OT Luke and Han then Poe and Rey are going to be better than OT Luke and Han. Why would Disney NOT want the new faces of their franchise to be prominent in the licensed merchandise? I think it was in one of the just after announcement of 2nd that a designer was playing and saying the Disney wanted The Force in the game. When you are working on a licensed product with a Star Wars label on it you don't get the last word. 

Now, I will concede I don't know what happened here. We don't really know if we've got "power-creep" with this stuff or will get an adjustment on Rebel points. I might be full of it but I'm probably not out on a rotted limb with my idea. The only new model in the release of 2nd Ed. was from the most recent movie wasn't it? Because the licensor wanted it was likely not the sole reason but it very well may have been an influence. 

Here is an article about videogames which are much bigger but much of that applies with any thing tied to Star Wars. From the article:

 

There is, quite simply, an enormous difference between saying "when you do X-Wing 2.0, you need to include the Force, as that's a key component of Star Wars" and saying "make sure the stuff from the new movies is significantly better than the stuff from the original movies." 

I think you're underestimating several things. Firstly: Disney _loves_ that they have decades worth of Star Wars nostalgia to draw from. _Loves_ it. That's why the Rogue One and Solo movies got greenlit in the first place. 

Secondly: the current faces of Star Wars, from Disney's POV, are Ahsoka Tano and Ezra Bridger. Those shows are _minting_ money for Disney. 

Thirdly: Disney very, _very_ rarely gets involved with their subsidiary companies outside of marketing. Anytime these decisions are being made, they're coming from Lucasfilm, not Disney. (Disney marketing is shocked at how popular Rey is, and not not popular Kylo Ren is). 

To go along with point 3: when does Disney get involved with a decision? It has to be the sort of monumental mess-up on the scale of Battlefront 2's disastrous microtransactions. 

Which gets us to the final point: you've conflated "support the IP it's licensing; keeping it relevant and in the public eye" with the sequels, rather than the property as a whole.

Disney is literally making as much money from selling any book under the Legends umbrella as they are from selling a book in the new canon. There's a _reason_ you can still buy literally every book under the Legends branding. Heck! They're even as available on Marvel Unlimited as the canon comics are. They make as much money from selling a toy of Darth Vader from Empire Strikes Back as they do from selling a toy of Kylo Ren in The Last Jedi. Their whole purpose of licencing toys and games and such is to remind you that Star Wars as a whole _exists_. 

That's what your quote means. Disney views toys and games as marketing for the brand. Which is why they don't want any more of the crud that Lucas licensed out. They want _good_ games and _quality_ toys. They want people to be happy playing with Star Wars toys.

And they trust their licensor partners to deal with the actual mechanics of game making, given the broad themes Disney would like to see touched on. They're simply not going to meddle with point values. That's so far beyond what they know or care about that they don't even know it exists. 

 

(Side note: Pablo Hildago knows all about the point values. He has strong opinions. And he's pissed that the E-Wing isn't in better shape. Because he's a player)

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It is not unheard of for LFL to meddle with game design. The horror stories that were the PT sets of SWCCG is evidence of that. I know of one story in particular about a piece from WOTC's SWM game. I doubt this is a decree from LFL, though. 

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I don't think it's Disney, what FFG showed us time and time again in the first edition was utter incompetence when it comes to balancing and playtesting, leaving many wondering if it's not by design to sell new minis.

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23 minutes ago, Punning Pundit said:

There is, quite simply, an enormous difference between saying "when you do X-Wing 2.0, you need to include the Force, as that's a key component of Star Wars" and saying "make sure the stuff from the new movies is significantly better than the stuff from the original movies." 

I think you're underestimating several things. Firstly: Disney _loves_ that they have decades worth of Star Wars nostalgia to draw from. _Loves_ it. That's why the Rogue One and Solo movies got greenlit in the first place. 

Secondly: the current faces of Star Wars, from Disney's POV, are Ahsoka Tano and Ezra Bridger. Those shows are _minting_ money for Disney. 

Thirdly: Disney very, _very_ rarely gets involved with their subsidiary companies outside of marketing. Anytime these decisions are being made, they're coming from Lucasfilm, not Disney. (Disney marketing is shocked at how popular Rey is, and not not popular Kylo Ren is). 

To go along with point 3: when does Disney get involved with a decision? It has to be the sort of monumental mess-up on the scale of Battlefront 2's disastrous microtransactions. 

Which gets us to the final point: you've conflated "support the IP it's licensing; keeping it relevant and in the public eye" with the sequels, rather than the property as a whole.

Disney is literally making as much money from selling any book under the Legends umbrella as they are from selling a book in the new canon. There's a _reason_ you can still buy literally every book under the Legends branding. Heck! They're even as available on Marvel Unlimited as the canon comics are. They make as much money from selling a toy of Darth Vader from Empire Strikes Back as they do from selling a toy of Kylo Ren in The Last Jedi. Their whole purpose of licencing toys and games and such is to remind you that Star Wars as a whole _exists_. 

That's what your quote means. Disney views toys and games as marketing for the brand. Which is why they don't want any more of the crud that Lucas licensed out. They want _good_ games and _quality_ toys. They want people to be happy playing with Star Wars toys.

And they trust their licensor partners to deal with the actual mechanics of game making, given the broad themes Disney would like to see touched on. They're simply not going to meddle with point values. That's so far beyond what they know or care about that they don't even know it exists. 

 

(Side note: Pablo Hildago knows all about the point values. He has strong opinions. And he's pissed that the E-Wing isn't in better shape. Because he's a player)

Im going to agree with you 100%.

 

If they were meddling in the game we would have seen far more drastic things, like Rey and Kylo being ridiculous out of the box in 1.0, instead they were lukewarm at best.

I think the most meddling that Disney does in Xwing would be along the lines of "hey, we have this rebels show, and they have this funky fun painted Tie Fighter, make a it a good guy model with the characters, I could care less how it plays" None of the marketing types or decision maker people have any clue how to play these games and they dont care. They see sales and marketing, building brands, and expanding market shares. They could care less about how Xwing works as long as it makes money and dosen't violate any major principles/bad press (like the micro transaction thing, or how Wendig got booted from comics).

Also even if Disney WAS telling to do stuff it would also depend on how their contracts are lined up. If the contract simply says "make star wars stuff, send us X dollars a year" FFG could pretty much do what it wants.  

 

Now back to the nitty gritty! Im really glad they made stuff like primed thrusters and ferrosphere paint reasonably priced. I want upgrades to be a choice, not something you are forced to do no matter what (like autothrusters).

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19 minutes ago, generalchaos34 said:

Now back to the nitty gritty! Im really glad they made stuff like primed thrusters and ferrosphere paint reasonably priced. I want upgrades to be a choice, not something you are forced to do no matter what (like autothrusters).

Autothrusters was only a forced card because it corrected a problem that ships like the Squint had since Wave 2.1. And once it existed, it narrowed the design space for ships with Autothrusters. 

So far, yeah. It looks like FFG is learning how to do this a bit better.

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10 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Anyhow, mostly called it.

28 for a basic TIE/FO.  44 for a TIE/SF with gunner, I'd thought 34-36 without.  68 for Poe.  I said 47 rather than 46 for the Init 1 T-70.  I'd thought 74 rather than 72 for Chewie.

Yep.

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8 minutes ago, dsul413 said:

The SF will still get a lot of play at its current pricing. I think First order pricing is pretty decent overall. Curious how we will see the upsilon played...

Can put in 4 of the cheap generics with the SF Gunner, 5 with any of the missiles other than prockets if you skip the gunner.

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4 hours ago, Ken at Sunrise said:

Did anyone notice if any of the original points or upgrades change?

No points or slot changes, the difference is now there is a legality for hyperspace format, and if they are not in the 2nd edition expansions (core, wave 1&2 , 1st ed wave 14 2.0 componenants) they are not allowed. Oh and Rebels get their falcon.

Edited by Marinealver

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45 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

No points or slot changes, the difference is now there is a legality for hyperspace format, and if they are not in the 2nd edition expansions (core, wave 1&2 , 1sr ed wave 14 2.0 componenants) they are not allowed. Oh and Rebels get their falcon.

Empire gets Strikers, too.

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9 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Empire gets Strikers, too.

All of the allowed ship types for Rebels and Empire were either at the Battle of Scarif and/or the Battle of Yavin. So Falcon (Yavin), Y-Wing (Scarif and Yavin), X-Wing (Scarif and Yavin), and U-Wing (Scarif, strangely Partisans only) for Rebels. Empire wise the Advanced X1 (Yavin), TIE/Ln (Yavin and Scarif), Striker (Scarif) and Reaper (Scarif).

Edited by Hiemfire

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Just now, Hiemfire said:

All of the allowed ships type for Rebels and Empire were either at the Battle of Scarif and/or the Battle of Yavin. So Falcon (Yavin), Y-Wing (Scarif and Yavin), X-Wing (Scarif and Yavin), and U-Wing (Scarif, strangely Partisans only) for Rebels. Empire wise the Advanced X1 (Yavin), TIE/Ln (Yavin and Scarif), Striker (Scarif) and Reaper (Scarif).

Rebels are missing the Ghost, if they wanted a full Scarif representation.

Battle-of-Scarif.jpg

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3 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

which will also show up in wave 3 (still wondering about Scum Z-95:huh:)

First time Scum hasn't had to shell out for multiple ships to get the Z-95... Same for the Firespray though there is the "iconic" angle there (for all the **** Mandos honestly).

Or did you mean not being allowed?

Edited by Hiemfire

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6 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

which will also show up in wave 3 (still wondering about Scum Z-95:blink:)

Which is what, 4 months away?

Meanwhile, Scum doesn't need the role a Z-95 provides.  Mining TIE can fill a swarm/filler role.  Striker adds a heavy-swarmer to the Imperial faction, which seemed really necessary for basic listbuilding options.

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1 minute ago, theBitterFig said:

Which is what, 4 months away?Meanwhile, Scum doesn't need the role a Z-95 provides.  Mining TIE can fill a swarm/filler role.  Striker adds a heavy-swarmer to the Imperial faction, which seemed really necessary for basic listbuilding options.

Not liking it 100%, but every thing that Scum has other than the Escape Pod and TIE have access to missiles or torps, so the limited capacity ordinance carrier role is filled. Not cheaply, but filled none the less.

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8 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Which is what, 4 months away?

Meanwhile, Scum doesn't need the role a Z-95 provides.  Mining TIE can fill a swarm/filler role.  Striker adds a heavy-swarmer to the Imperial faction, which seemed really necessary for basic listbuilding options.

So the Scum is now the TIE swarm faction. :blink:

My have times changed.

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7 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Don't forget, the RZ2's dial is also better and it has a Tech slot, which is vastly superior to a Modification slot!  ;)

At this point, I have to believe either FFG has a huge Anti-Rebel sentiment in 2.0, or they are grossly incompetent, or they are just trying to sell lots of the "New Hotness" with powercreep.   I'm not sure which is worse...

why not all of the above? 

nah I'm sure its just too little development resources stretched too thin.

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