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paganeagle2001

Deck Problem And How To Solve It - FFG Please Watch

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18 hours ago, paganeagle2001 said:

Hi FFG, the video below shows a flaw in your system of Keyforge decks and how easily it can be solved with a future run of decks.

https://youtu.be/swYTAuuZfNM

Can you describe the flaw instead of just mentioning this “one neat trick to...blah”?

As it stands the post is basically clickbait 

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2 minutes ago, Derrault said:

Can you describe the flaw instead of just mentioning this “one neat trick to...blah”?

As it stands the post is basically clickbait 

It's the old "the flaps at the bottom are easy to reseal if you want to scam people" thing. 

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2 hours ago, Derrault said:

So what, if someone is buying them from a shady 3rd party instead of FFG or a reputable source they might get scammed?

Wow, what a surprise! 🙄

 This also happens with Magic the gathering as well.

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It's a known issue and has been since pre-launch. There are always going to be disreputable people who will abuse things like this. It's a lot like Pokemon boxes that can be mapped.  Could it be better? Sure. But it's something that is driven by the secondary market and FFG isn't responsible for that, nor do I think that market will really be that robust once things calm down. The point of the game is to get a deck, any deck, and play it. As long as you get your decks from trusted sources, like any collectible product, it's something that won't come up but very rarely.

Edited by ImhotepMagi

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First off, this Mike Hatcher, (who also runs a magic YT channel Magichistorian) is quite the annoying reviewer, usually negatively reviewing, or otherwise bashing anything that he finds 'outrageous' to his own perspective. I see him diving into KeyForge recently on YT. And as expected he is bashing away again. We all have our forte i guess but i generally avoid watching videos from him.

However, i did watch this episode about resealing packs. And he is correct in this case. (@mike, no personal attack!). It is quite trivial to open a keyforge pack and reseal it with glue. You would never figure that out looking at the box or the seam. Magic boosters are better secured, although it also happens there! I think anything with enough time and creativity can be scammed.

Any reputable LGS would not engage in this activity, so getting it from an trusted (online) source will protect you against deck searching. Also buying a sealed display box can give you more guarantee. (why did FFG not use printed shrinkwrap??). And lets face it, Sooner or later you will amass a lot of KF decks, so better get a box immediately and save some money 🙂 If you hit a Horsey deck you could trade it, and get another display box.. As long as people are paying hundreds of dollars for a horsey deck (wait until these decks receive mandatory chains!) deck searching will continue 🙂

And the solution by mike (flipping the deck list) will deter the easy/lazy decks searchers, but wrapping a deck again with this plain foil might also be in the repertoire of scammers. 

I think it is wonderful to have a deck list available before opening and since each deck is unique it makes sense to include it. A KF deck is not like a magic booster. Better compare it to preconstructed magic decks (duel decks, etc). They also have list available (although you would not need to open the deck as these lists are online 🙂

 

 

 

Edited by EdwinFFlight
spelling

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On ‎12‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 1:13 PM, Radix2309 said:

If checklist isn't available, you can't see what the deck is before unwrapping it. That makes it harder to trade away unopened decks you don't want.

But how would you know you don't want it if you don't know what's inside? 

I watched the video, and yeah, it's like a M:TG booster pack with the cards insider listed on the back. Flip that card the other way around, and let people guess based on the Houses.

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Well if the Resealerer is using super glue, just sniff the box.  The stuff has a very distinctive odor.

 

Or here's a thought, buy from FFG  not Shady McEbay or Iffy MacInterwebs.

Edited by 10Ten
typo

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2 hours ago, 10Ten said:

Or here's a thought, buy from FFG  not Shady McEbay or Iffy MacInterwebs.

LOL, thanks for that!

I would suggest going to a FLGS you know and trust. This has the added benefit of supporting those that actually keep tabletop gaming alive.

Mike Hatcher is your typical click bait youtuber, nothing new here really.

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Yeah, this YouTuber posts EXTRREEEEEMMMEE DRAAAAMAA  vid titles, including outright BS just to get clicks.  The nice thing about YouTube is that if one of his vids comes up in my recommended, I can click-> Not Interested -> Reason: Don't like this channel

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Okay, let's be clear even though I'm sure it has been said here already.

Each deck is unique and unless someone is willing to spend WAY too much time on their hands, falsifying and messing with a deck, faking cards or packaging, or trying to read a META that, frankly, isn't going to be typical, to try and turn a profit, this isn't even a problem worth addressing.... yet. Because if the game gets big you may want to be careful someone's staff isn't doing this stuff.

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FFG didn't put the deck list there by accident.  "Derp derp, never we didn't think of people knowing the cards in the deck when we put the list in the front."  They do it for a very specific purpose.  You need that card there for the draft tournys, and for trade/sale of decks.  They are never going to put it the other way around, or bury it.  

Until they find a better way to seal boxes, maybe with cellophane on the box itself, be sure to buy from trusted sellers.

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10 hours ago, Blackchibidono said:

Okay, let's be clear even though I'm sure it has been said here already.

Each deck is unique and unless someone is willing to spend WAY too much time on their hands, falsifying and messing with a deck, faking cards or packaging, or trying to read a META that, frankly, isn't going to be typical, to try and turn a profit, this isn't even a problem worth addressing.... yet. Because if the game gets big you may want to be careful someone's staff isn't doing this stuff.

No, the idea is that people will open boxes looking for things like horseman decks.  If they find one, they sell it on ebay, if not they rebox the deck and sell it as a 'blind' deck.  So the cherry pick the best for sale as known, then sell the others that wouldn't sell if you knew what was in it, and get the best of both worlds.

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1 hour ago, xbeaker said:

No, the idea is that people will open boxes looking for things like horseman decks.  If they find one, they sell it on ebay, if not they rebox the deck and sell it as a 'blind' deck.  So the cherry pick the best for sale as known, then sell the others that wouldn't sell if you knew what was in it, and get the best of both worlds.

They can also just scan all the decks to get the discovery and repack those they don't want to keep or ebay. I would like to see the shrink wrap on the deck at least prevent the QR code form being used unless you unwrap it. 

The box should be re-engineered so the bottom cannot be opened without tearing. 

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48 minutes ago, Krashwire said:

They can also just scan all the decks to get the discovery and repack those they don't want to keep or ebay. I would like to see the shrink wrap on the deck at least prevent the QR code form being used unless you unwrap it. 

The box should be re-engineered so the bottom cannot be opened without tearing. 

yeah, it would be a simple matter to perf the cardboard so that it would tear if you open it.  And they should use a wrapper that blacks out the QR Code until you remove it

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On 12/4/2018 at 9:31 AM, xbeaker said:

No, the idea is that people will open boxes looking for things like horseman decks.  If they find one, they sell it on ebay, if not they rebox the deck and sell it as a 'blind' deck.  So the cherry pick the best for sale as known, then sell the others that wouldn't sell if you knew what was in it, and get the best of both worlds.

Understand your point. My point is that, especially with card effects so wide spread between the houses and the like, there is no way to tell how good a deck is until you play it. I currently have a deck with only two rare cards(my others all have about 4 each) and it has won almost every match. I think anyone who aims to sell the 'best decks' and anyone who is dumb enough to buy into that mindset deserves to be gouged. There is no such thing and if anything, if there was such things, they would gain chains like you wouldn't believe and become unplayable. Easy as that.

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1 hour ago, Blackchibidono said:

Understand your point. My point is that, especially with card effects so wide spread between the houses and the like, there is no way to tell how good a deck is until you play it. I currently have a deck with only two rare cards(my others all have about 4 each) and it has won almost every match. I think anyone who aims to sell the 'best decks' and anyone who is dumb enough to buy into that mindset deserves to be gouged. There is no such thing and if anything, if there was such things, they would gain chains like you wouldn't believe and become unplayable. Easy as that.

It isn't a matter of gouging the people who are willing to buy what they think are stronger decks.  It is a matter of unscrupulous sellers selling decks that allege to be blind, with an equal chance at being some powerhouse deck or a nearly useless deck.  But in reality the decks that seems the best have been filtered out.  Yes, a deck that looks good on the surface may not really click in practice.  And a deck that seems weak due to lack of rares or any real standout cards could turn out to be a demon on the table.  But for the most part an experienced player can make a pretty good judgement.  Those sleeper decks are rare, and getting rarer all the time as people learn the game.  And I know even if they aren't the end-all-be-all I'd like to have an equal chance at buying a deck with horseman or a bear flute or mighty tiger without the possibility that the seller has already opened the deck, and kept it for sale if it contained these sought after showpiece cards.  If you are ok with it, more power to you. Buy from whomever without worrying about it.  But for most of the rest of us, we'd be pissed if we found out the person selling 'blind' decks had already opened, reviewed and resealed them.  

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On 12/6/2018 at 9:15 AM, xbeaker said:

It isn't a matter of gouging the people who are willing to buy what they think are stronger decks.  It is a matter of unscrupulous sellers selling decks that allege to be blind, with an equal chance at being some powerhouse deck or a nearly useless deck.  But in reality the decks that seems the best have been filtered out.  Yes, a deck that looks good on the surface may not really click in practice.  And a deck that seems weak due to lack of rares or any real standout cards could turn out to be a demon on the table.  But for the most part an experienced player can make a pretty good judgement.  Those sleeper decks are rare, and getting rarer all the time as people learn the game.  And I know even if they aren't the end-all-be-all I'd like to have an equal chance at buying a deck with horseman or a bear flute or mighty tiger without the possibility that the seller has already opened the deck, and kept it for sale if it contained these sought after showpiece cards.  If you are ok with it, more power to you. Buy from whomever without worrying about it.  But for most of the rest of us, we'd be pissed if we found out the person selling 'blind' decks had already opened, reviewed and resealed them.  

I have someone trash talking The Sting in another thread when it is probably one of the better cards in one of my decks because the synergy is so good. I'm just saying I don't think this game will have 'powerhouse' decks as much as decks that certain people know how to make good use of and other people may not. I don't think there will ever be a time where a deck or card combination will be unassailable. Just don't see it yet and I've been deck building and playing card games for ages.

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On 12/7/2018 at 1:40 PM, Blackchibidono said:

I have someone trash talking The Sting in another thread when it is probably one of the better cards in one of my decks because the synergy is so good. I'm just saying I don't think this game will have 'powerhouse' decks as much as decks that certain people know how to make good use of and other people may not. I don't think there will ever be a time where a deck or card combination will be unassailable. Just don't see it yet and I've been deck building and playing card games for ages.

You can tell me stories all day of decks which seemed like they weren't very good turning out to be very good.  Or times where you beat horseman decks or took down other powerhouse decks.  And it will never change the fact that I don't want the person I am buying from to be able to open the deck in advance and checking it prior to selling it without me knowing that what I am buying is an opened deck, not a sealed one.  If you are ok with it, that's fine.  But please don't defend this shady practice with "Not every 'bad' deck is really bad and not every 'good' deck is necessarily that good."  

Also understand I am not talking about the reseller market.  If someone wants to spend hundreds (on thousands!) of dollars on a deck they think will be a consistant winner, so be it.  I don't care what happens on the secondary market.  And if someone wants to buy a case of decks and open every single one and auction them off for profit, more power to them.  But I object to the them resealing any of those decks after they are opened and selling them as new.  

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