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LordBubba

Is keyforge going to eat Magic alive.?

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26 minutes ago, SinJ said:

I think it is more likely that Keyforge steps in to take the place of bedraggled Magic players like me who used to love the game. Keyforge is everything that is good about Magic without the large investment of time and cash building decks. I'm definitely a player who loves customization but I enjoy that with Keyforge everyone is essentially on a level playing field at the gate. To me that's a recipe for long term success.

Amen!

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11 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

So when is X-Wing going to eat 40k alive? I think we were promised that years ago. Curious to see where the bedraggled X-Wing players are flying off to in the wake of 2.0.

I am fairly confident that a 2.0 was a big mistake. Does anyone remember Mage Knight? It was a great game and then they did a 2.0 but said "Don't worry you will still be able to use your old stuff."  Yeah that was the deathknell to an otherwise great game.

But we are a bit off topic here.

This is not a 2.0 of MTG. It will not 'eat magic alive' but it is one of the first games I can see that has the potential to have enough broad appeal and a good enough starting point to be a long time and significant contender. There is also more likelihood that people who play MTG would play both rather than throwing MTG to the curb.

Personally I have not been participating in the paper version of MTG lately and recently sold off everything. I do still play Arena on a near daily basis. I still love MTG. Keyforge is a much better game in my opinion (plus my wife will play it!). I will be playing both for the foreseeable future, it just wont be paper MTG. 

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Just now, Krashwire said:

I am fairly confident that a 2.0 was a big mistake. Does anyone remember Mage Knight? It was a great game and then they did a 2.0 but said "Don't worry you will still be able to use your old stuff."  Yeah that was the deathknell to an otherwise great game.

I'm fairly confident without 2.0 the game would have fizzeled within 2 years. With 2.0, I'm fairly certain it will  be able to survive at a healthy level (thanks to prequel stuff it might even grow again).

It was never going to kill 40k, though. Just like KeyForge is never going to kill Magic. Those things are actually very similar - both Magic and 40k have become pop culture of their own. X-Wing and KeyForge are great games, but they are sub-phenomena of Star Wars and hobby-board/card-gaming respectively, not entities of their own. I won't say they can't be, but neither will be in the near or even foreseeable future.

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18 minutes ago, 10Ten said:

You keep linking mtg stuff, so evidently you do think it has to do with mtg?

It appears that I'm not the only one referencing other games. Maybe you wanna take that up with OP? Or you could share your thoughts on the question I asked. I'd love to hear them.

Edited by WonderWAAAGH

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11 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

It appears that I'm not the only one referencing other games. Maybe you wanna take that up with OP? Or you could share your thoughts on the question I asked. I'd love to hear them.

Hmmm, figured everyone here knew the OP was being hyperbolic?

 

X-Wing v 40K don't compare well to Keyforge v M:tG.  It is too dissimilar 

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The reality is no game, including Keyforge, exists in some bubble that excludes all other games. Keyforge is certainly different but there are also parallels that can be drawn. Ignoring them doesn't really further a discussion. It does cause a discussion about if they are relevant though... 

In some respects all other games are relevant as they will have an impact on players, designers, store owners, online retailers, ECT.

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8 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

Actually, I briefly skimmed his/her post history. Didn't appear to be a troll attempt.

Hyperbolic =/= troll

3 minutes ago, Krashwire said:

The reality is no game, including Keyforge, exists in some bubble that excludes all other games. Keyforge is certainly different but there are also parallels that can be drawn. Ignoring them doesn't really further a discussion. It does cause a discussion about if they are relevant though... 

In some respects all other games are relevant as they will have an impact on players, designers, store owners, online retailers, ECT.

X-Wing is a leased IP which never have a lasting presence in the gaming world, hence why they are multiple instances of Leased IP under different companies

compare to 40k which is solely owned by GW, (compare to their RPG of 40k which is leased out, doesn't do nearly as well)

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5 minutes ago, 10Ten said:

Hyperbolic =/= troll

Of course not. One just implies a complete lack of earnestness. We all had to make our individual judgments as to whether or not this thread was worth responding to.  

Licensed, by the way. 

Edited by WonderWAAAGH

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29 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

Of course not. One just implies a complete lack of earnestness. We all had to make our individual judgments as to whether or not this thread was worth responding to.  

Licensed, by the way. 

Leased is the better term.  Yes it's Licensed 'lawyerly', but in realities the IP is rented out to other companies

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On 11/28/2018 at 11:58 PM, LordBubba said:

  Is Keyforge going to eat magic The gathering alive.?

Quite the contrary. If keyforge does well, it will create more magic players. Some of us like keyforge because it doesn't have deckbuilding. I'm in that camp - I'd rather play than sort cards. I would never be a big magic player, with or without keyforge. Keyforge is basically my last shot at a collectible game - if it fails I wont be playing card games.

But people who play magic, especially if they still do, LIKE the deckbuilding, and like the game. They might enjoy keyforge too - but will probably keep playing magic.

And some people are intimidated by deckbuilding so have not found their way to magic - yet. The accessibility of keyforge can be the gateway game leading to other things. Breifly, the hype of keyforge led me to play some arena and warhammer champions. I still don't like deckbuilding, so it didn't last, but I can see that story going differently for others.

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10 hours ago, Krashwire said:

I am fairly confident that a 2.0 was a big mistake. Does anyone remember Mage Knight? It was a great game and then they did a 2.0 but said "Don't worry you will still be able to use your old stuff."  Yeah that was the deathknell to an otherwise great game.

Mage Knight was dying before 2.0.  Sales had plummeted and interest was waning fast.  2.0 was a last ditch attempt by WK to save their flagship property.  2.0 didn't kill Mage Knight, it just failed entirely to save it.  WK published a post mortem of Mage Knight back in the day that was a fascinating read about how badly they'd mishandled Mage Knight in the years leading up to 2.0 and then how badly they'd mishandled 2.0.  Which was shockingly more honesty than I have ever seen a game company put out anywhere else.

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7 hours ago, Suttkus said:

Mage Knight was dying before 2.0.  Sales had plummeted and interest was waning fast.  2.0 was a last ditch attempt by WK to save their flagship property.  2.0 didn't kill Mage Knight, it just failed entirely to save it.  WK published a post mortem of Mage Knight back in the day that was a fascinating read about how badly they'd mishandled Mage Knight in the years leading up to 2.0 and then how badly they'd mishandled 2.0.  Which was shockingly more honesty than I have ever seen a game company put out anywhere else.

If you have a link to that I would love to read it.

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14 hours ago, Krashwire said:

If you have a link to that I would love to read it.

Sadly, WK took down their MageKnight page ages ago, and I didn't have the foresight to save it.  (Unlike a lot of their fiction and world documents which I still have!)

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Someone walking away from Magic may not necessarily get into KeyForge; if Magic falls, it will be from player apathy more than competition. That's still an 'if' though, as my local game store still has a player base for it. There's also players of multiple card games, so people playing both could happen. The main focus should be on making this game and its player community grow.

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Although from the same designer, and sharing some characteristics, KF is not there to dethrone MtG. You will see a lot of player embracing KF as it offers quicker gameplay without the learning curve that Mtg obviously has. Same goes for Heartstone... 

Its all about interest, play ability and availability. I think KF does well on the first 2 accounts. But limits itself not having an app (like Heartstone) to play online. A huge miss, but might be coming soon?

The current KF app is pretty basic and besides decks registering does nothing. Technically speaking its just a website front mapped into an app. So waiting for a playable KF app 🙂

Now that i own a few decks i was thinking about price vs rarity (compared to Mtg cards). A deck is $9.95 (10/11 euro here in the EU). On average you get 3 rares in 36 cards.
A magic booster (15 cards) has 1/2 rares or a mythic). Costs about 2-3 dollars. 

So compared you get more 'value' in rares with Magic boosters, plus more cards. So the price point of KF deck, viewed strictly from a rarity pov, is not great. In other words, you pay more for less (rare) cards. Of course, this totally ignores all other aspects, which is not fair. 😉

 

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Since Battle for Zendikar, I've been weaning myself off of Magic. Still hopelessly hooked, but trying to slim my collection and streamline my decks. When I started playing Keyforge, I realized that Keyforge decks are basically what I want my Magic collections to be: loose themes, not too powerful but still functional. M:TG still has the deckbuilding options down, and no new cardgame can ever beat M:TG in that regard. But for actual gameplay, Keyforge is a decent substitution where premade decks give me the playstyle I'd spend hours building M:TG decks to get.

Edited by Whiz Canmaj

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Ok, first of all: WonderWAAAGH....Sorry I have to dox you but we all know you are Mark Rosewater.  You're in these forums trying to drive a wedge up in here.  Talking about how great Magic is and how much you hate FFG. Come on, man, this in not the place.

Second of all: Why has no one brought up Archie Comics and Free Willy trading cards?  I remember seeing those booster boxes side by side with Magic booster boxes at the game store counter back in the day.

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