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FranquesEnbiens

Initiative One Episode 25: Traffic

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Finally, we got to it! We've been talking about our community-building episode, and now that Worlds is over and there's a lull in releases and news, we can actually talk about it.
 
We go over Shane's ideas about strengthening your local Runewars scene, and how to draw both new and existing players. Complete with some carefully built and tested 120-point army ideas for demo games, we set you up for GREAT SUCCESS!
 
Shane has also been scheming some tournament tweaks to try to even things out that we'll be experimenting with in a couple weeks, including a fun setup wrinkle! It's all in the tournament doc.
 
Thanks for listening!
 

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4 hours ago, Church14 said:

Gotta ask, MCW and MoI on Deepwoods?

I think its because the latari list has no melee infantry in it and so if the new player happens to get this archers into combat, they can still do damage I guess?

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8 hours ago, Zaaik said:

I think its because the latari list has no melee infantry in it and so if the new player happens to get this archers into combat, they can still do damage I guess?

Close quarters targeting? 

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14 hours ago, Jukey said:

Close quarters targeting? 

Perhaps he didn't want to include anything in the lists that was to "game changing" in a way that changed the basics to much.

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Liking the demo lists. I’ve been thinking about demo/ learning lists myself. My feeling is that you might get more mileage out of Hero free lists.

Many heroes can be difficult to use well (pretty much all the undead heroes for example) and many add additional layers or effects (ie rule interactions) to the game. 

Without the costly heroes you can fit more basic troops onto the field while keeping the points cost around 120. This means you’re more likely to have a good variety of unit sizes for learning both about threat and re-roll and how different size units move. 

Generally I think one upgrade per unit is enough too. 

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Just now, Suhawk75 said:

Liking the demo lists. I’ve been thinking about demo/ learning lists myself. My feeling is that you might get more mileage out of Hero free lists.

Many heroes can be difficult to use well (pretty much all the undead heroes for example) and many add additional layers or effects (ie rule interactions) to the game. 

Without the costly heroes you can fit more basic troops onto the field while keeping the points cost around 120. This means you’re more likely to have a good variety of unit sizes for learning both about threat and re-roll and how different size units move. 

Generally I think one upgrade per unit is enough too. 

This is a good idea. I'm gonna build some demo lists with embedded heroes or champions only and see how it goes...

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Yeah I meant to add that figure upgrades are, probably, a good thing to have as it teaches people about assigning damage and accuracy. 

Probably want to keep them simple ones, preferably with a specific teaching purpose in mind (Maybe Lance Corporal would be good for Daqan? It adds an exception to matching the modifier dial colour with your action colour and, thus, re-emphasises the rule itself)

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On 11/28/2018 at 9:03 PM, FranquesEnbiens said:

I know that you wanted to keep it simple, but there is at least 10 points of needless upgrades in every list that won’t contribute (or is too good for a small game in Kari’s case). You could easily drop all lists to 110 limit and keep your stated goal.

I’m not sure I understand any of the upgrades on the Derpwoods or Reanimates. Can anyone elaborate on why those were used?

 

Also, it looks like you wanted to keep all cards internal to the core set or the relevant army box and essentials pack, but Raven Tabards wasn’t in the core and wouldn’t work for Waiqar in that case. 

 

My 2 cents:

I would embrace figure upgrades. Even if just one per list. Lance Corporal and Shield wall on a Spearmen block feels extremely Daqan.

Strip the upgrades off the Berserkers and give them Psychosis Siren. It’s pretty ineffective but feels super Uthuk if you just force the thresher and the Berserkers to opposite sides during deployment.  

Edited by Church14

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52 minutes ago, Church14 said:

My 2 cents:

I would embrace figure upgrades. Even if just one per list. Lance Corporal and Shield wall on a Spearmen block feels extremely Daqan.

Strip the upgrades off the Berserkers and give them Psychosis Siren. It’s pretty ineffective but feels super Uthuk if you just force the thresher and the Berserkers to opposite sides during deployment.  

Yes exactly this stuff.  With Ardus you can throw a champion in a 2x2 of reanimates.  Even if it's just a necromancer that won't see a lot of value, it gives them the feel both upgrades and figure upgrades it in a very easy to understand way, and has nice flavor to boot.

 

Edit:  Just realized this means running Ardus, which is contrary to the point of not running heroes... doh... I guess getting a 3x2 of reanimates out there with a necromancer is still pretty reasonable for a 110 point list though.

Edited by QuickWhit

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On 11/29/2018 at 3:21 AM, Zaaik said:

I think its because the latari list has no melee infantry in it and so if the new player happens to get this archers into combat, they can still do damage I guess?

I wish I could take credit for this kind of thinking, but looking back I think it was more likely an oversight. Here's a tweak of that list with the same points and no nearly-pointless upgrades on the archers. http://tabletopadmiral.com/runewars/elves/p0a1uEMu4ap091u08uEMp0c1uEMu0ep0b2u27u23u01u25

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On 11/30/2018 at 9:31 AM, Church14 said:

I’m not sure I understand any of the upgrades on the Derpwoods or Reanimates. Can anyone elaborate on why those were used?

Deepwoods were an oversight; see above.

On reanimates, I remember many frustrating early games with them where they had trouble getting into any helpful position. Since these lists are core box only, I gave them a lot of help making their movement dial better. War Crier is a little silly, but it lets them shrug off panic tokens when you mess up whether or not to charge (which happens to newer players a decent amount) and turn it around into an upside that they can capitalize on.

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On 11/30/2018 at 10:23 AM, QuickWhit said:

Yes exactly this stuff.  With Ardus you can throw a champion in a 2x2 of reanimates.  Even if it's just a necromancer that won't see a lot of value, it gives them the feel both upgrades and figure upgrades it in a very easy to understand way, and has nice flavor to boot.

 

Edit:  Just realized this means running Ardus, which is contrary to the point of not running heroes... doh... I guess getting a 3x2 of reanimates out there with a necromancer is still pretty reasonable for a 110 point list though.

My reasoning with the lack of unit upgrades was mostly to make the armies easy to buy; you should be able to build each of these out of just a core box, so one person wanting to own all four demo armies doesn't need to buy a whole bunch of models for factions they don't own. Obviously if you own all four infantry expansions, feel free to make some lists that use those. :)

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