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richarDISNEY

Looking for a Wide Angle Line Laser

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My favorite is this one

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B076QHPPNX/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Similar to the harbor freight one but I've found a bit more reliable, I'd gone through 5 of the harbor freight ones in 4 years between X-wing and Armada but I've had the army painter one for a bit over a year. They can be rough to find but most actual gaming stores carry them

https://www.miniaturemarket.com/amytl5016.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&adpos=1o1&scid=scplpAMYTL5016&sc_intid=AMYTL5016&gclid=CjwKCAiAlvnfBRA1EiwAVOEgfCF5NIotrtlmzbkDyTWBsgwnFj1jA1Wp_NaBYC1rOnMWQfIcXoby9hoC9JkQAvD_BwE

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Just as a note, these types of lasers are a surprisingly inaccurate way to check lines.  They can be useful for a rough check of situations that are clearly in or clearly out, but for precision checks of a few millimeters they are terrible.  Nevertheless, I've met opponents who have taken offense to me pointing this out and who have argued that lasers are more accurate than range rulers, which seems to be a somewhat common perception.


The problems with lasers, though, are three fold:

(1) The line projected is not a true straight-edge and has a bow to it, which becomes more pronounced as the laser is held higher up and/or the longer the line being checked is
(2) The human hand holding the laser is wobbly, since it can't be properly stabilized, and this introduces imprecision to the check
(3) Unless the laser is held directly above the line being checked, it will narrow or broaden the arc you are checking.  Holding it to the right or the left above the line being checked will alter the measurement.


I know we've had recent threads exploring cheating in Armada, including the intentional or unintentional fudging of moves or measurements.  It would be very easy for anyone who roughly understands points 1-3 above to use the laser in such a way that every close measurement (less than a few mm) went their way.

So, for close calls, I recommend you mark and move ships and stabilize a straightedge* against the base being checked.


*before any of you good folk put on your best nerd sneer and point out that the cardboard range sticks are not perfect straightedges either, note that they are typically still straighter than the laser line and they can more easily be stabilized against the line being checked and they are an official component with the intended use of checking such range measurements.

Edited by AllWingsStandyingBy

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3 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Just as a note, these types of lasers are a surprisingly inaccurate way to check lines.  They can be useful for a rough check of situations that are clearly in or clearly out, but for precision checks of a few millimeters they are terrible.

Nerd sneer inbound I guess. Though I genuinely don't intend it to sound like that? lol

I disagree. 

While all 3 of your points are at least semi valid (depending on the nature and quality of the laser device), having studied quite closely the tolerances of FFGs manufacturing processes though the provided materials including the printed LoS dots and Arc lines on the machine pressed cardboard ship tokens, I can assure you there is no way to get precise results. 

That may seem like a petty stance to take, but if you're forcing someone to pull up ships (which immediately invalidates the precision of the game state) to measure with a "straight" edge, especially if that edge was pressed or cut by FFG, the level of precision you're attempting to achieve is simply impossible with the tolerances FFG has. In earnest, that laser, even with a bow (which is entirely based on the design and quality of the device), will provide at the very least an accurate measurement. Which is the best you can hope to achieve. 

I've said this so many times. Armada,while designed for a precision state, is not a precise game. 

 

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4 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Just as a note, these types of lasers are a surprisingly inaccurate way to check lines.  They can be useful for a rough check of situations that are clearly in or clearly out, but for precision checks of a few millimeters they are terrible.  Nevertheless, I've met opponents who have taken offense to me pointing this out and who have argued that lasers are more accurate than range rulers, which seems to be a somewhat common perception.


The problems with lasers, though, are three fold:

(1) The line projected is not a true straight-edge and has a bow to it, which becomes more pronounced as the laser is held higher up and/or the longer the line being checked is
(2) The human hand holding the laser is wobbly, since it can't be properly stabilized, and this introduces imprecision to the check
(3) Unless the laser is held directly above the line being checked, it will narrow or broaden the arc you are checking.  Holding it to the right or the left above the line being checked will alter the measurement.


I know we've had recent threads exploring cheating in Armada, including the intentional or unintentional fudging of moves or measurements.  It would be very easy for anyone who roughly understands points 1-3 above to use the laser in such a way that every close measurement (less than a few mm) went their way.

So, for close calls, I recommend you mark and move ships and stabilize a straightedge* against the base being checked.


*before any of you good folk put on your best nerd sneer and point out that the cardboard range sticks are not perfect straightedges either, note that they are typically still straighter than the laser line and they can more easily be stabilized against the line being checked and they are an official component with the intended use of checking such range measurements.

I haven't tested any of those three points, and I probably don't have to. I just have to point out to someone questioning the "tolerances of my measuring tool" that they bumped every component they possess (and half of mine) on the table a minimum of 3 times per turn, invalidating all accuracy, so the laser should get a slide..... 😁

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2 hours ago, LostFleet said:

I sense some boldness in you :P

 

Which laser you choose ( my preference is Army Painter ), smaller it is the better,  for mobility and handling.

 

Clearly a rebel player.  Lasers need to be big, preferably with dishes.

Edited by Do I need a Username

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6 hours ago, Do I need a Username said:

Clearly a rebel player.  Lasers need to be big, preferably with dishes.

You just gave me a brilliant idea, a Death Star shaped laser holder, it would be a great visual addition to the game 👍

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