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TheMightySquito

Help from future self ruling

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No, leave the card on the table until it is resolved fully, then discard it - unless it creates a lingering effect (for the remainder of the turn), like library access for example, which I s discarded immediately. 

Edited by Poposhka

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13 hours ago, Poposhka said:

No, leave the card on the table until it is resolved fully, then discard it - unless it creates a lingering effect (for the remainder of the turn), like library access for example, which I s discarded immediately. 

There is no 'lingering effect' in the rulebook

Keep Library Access on the table until it finishes resolving its effect at the end of turn.

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4 hours ago, Talamare said:

There is no 'lingering effect' in the rulebook

Keep Library Access on the table until it finishes resolving its effect at the end of turn.

That's not how thelead developer plays it.  In a Twitch video he played Library access, discarded it, used another card to retrieve Library Access from his discard pile and played it again.

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19 hours ago, dperello said:

That's not how thelead developer plays it.  In a Twitch video he played Library access, discarded it, used another card to retrieve Library Access from his discard pile and played it again.

Neat, if he wants to post it in the FAQ or even in these Official Rulings post to play it like that it's official

Otherwise that video is irrelevant

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1 minute ago, Talamare said:

Otherwise that video is irrelevant

I'm not sure what you mean by that.

We're all here, I think, in an attempt to figure out how some of the more ambiguous rules are intended to be played, are we not?   If the RAW doesn't sufficiently answer our questions there are various ways we can go about trying to understand them, hopefully gathering whatever information we can find from various sources as well as discussing different ideas amongst ourselves.  I may be wrong, but I would think hearing the thoughts of the person responsible for developing the rules of the game would be profoundly relevant.  It may not be relevant to the RAW, but it certainly matters in trying to play the game as close to the way it is intended to be played.

I'm not here to argue whether or not my interpretations are more correct than someone else's,  (and I'm not trying to suggest you are either) but if our goal is to play the game as the people who created it intended, then certainly we must at least consider how they themselves play it.  True, it may not be "official" but until something official comes along aren't these types of videos and comments put out by the creators the best source of information of their goals?

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3 hours ago, dperello said:

I'm not sure what you mean by that.

We're all here, I think, in an attempt to figure out how some of the more ambiguous rules are intended to be played, are we not?   If the RAW doesn't sufficiently answer our questions there are various ways we can go about trying to understand them, hopefully gathering whatever information we can find from various sources as well as discussing different ideas amongst ourselves.  I may be wrong, but I would think hearing the thoughts of the person responsible for developing the rules of the game would be profoundly relevant.  It may not be relevant to the RAW, but it certainly matters in trying to play the game as close to the way it is intended to be played.

I'm not here to argue whether or not my interpretations are more correct than someone else's,  (and I'm not trying to suggest you are either) but if our goal is to play the game as the people who created it intended, then certainly we must at least consider how they themselves play it.  True, it may not be "official" but until something official comes along aren't these types of videos and comments put out by the creators the best source of information of their goals?

Sure, but what a developer hoped a card would be like may not have been what was finally decided when it came to print.

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On 11/29/2018 at 10:55 PM, Talamare said:

There is no 'lingering effect' in the rulebook

Keep Library Access on the table until it finishes resolving its effect at the end of turn.

The rules state to resolve the card as much as possible then put it in the discard pile. I'd argue that LA immediately changes what happens when you play another card (you get to draw a card for each card played), its effect is applied and it doesn't do anything else so you put it into your discard pile. You've resolved it as much as it can be resolved. Doesn't make sense to keep it on the board since it's not doing anything else. It's already applied the replacement effect.

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1 hour ago, Talamare said:

Sure, but what a developer hoped a card would be like may not have been what was finally decided when it came to print.

Okay, but he's Brad Andres, the lead developer and also the guy answering all rules questions submitted to FFG through their official rules inquiries form.  In other words, he's the guy.  Everyone defers to him...

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5 hours ago, dperello said:

Okay, but he's Brad Andres, the lead developer and also the guy answering all rules questions submitted to FFG through their official rules inquiries form.  In other words, he's the guy.  Everyone defers to him...

Doesn't mean he is correct in his play either.

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On 11/30/2018 at 5:55 AM, Talamare said:

There is no 'lingering effect' in the rulebook

Keep Library Access on the table until it finishes resolving its effect at the end of turn.

There is no zone you can place the card either. I highly doubt that your Interpretation of the rules is correct.

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12 hours ago, Ignithas said:

There is no zone you can place the card either. I highly doubt that your Interpretation of the rules is correct.

It goes directly into your discard pile, exactly the same as every other action card. It just says it has an effect that works for the duration of the turn.

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17 minutes ago, Derrault said:

It goes directly into your discard pile, exactly the same as every other action card. It just says it has an effect that works for the duration of the turn.

Same as every action card in the game, it goes to the discard pile upon it finishes resolving and not a moment sooner

13 hours ago, Ignithas said:

There is no zone you can place the card either. I highly doubt that your Interpretation of the rules is correct.

When you play a card and haven't finished resolving it yet

Where do you leave it?

Leave it in the same place

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2 minutes ago, Talamare said:

Same as every action card in the game, it goes to the discard pile upon it finishes resolving and not a moment sooner

When you play a card and haven't finished resolving it yet

Where do you leave it?

Leave it in the same place

Yes, and it resolves immediately. The effect just happens to exist past the resolution of the card. 

No different than cards that affect an opponent’s actions on their next turn. 

Edited by Derrault

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2 hours ago, Talamare said:

When you play a card and haven't finished resolving it yet

Where do you leave it?

Leave it in the same place

You're not suggesting cards like Miasma (Play: Your opponent skips the "forge a key" step on their next turn.) and Lash of Broken Dreams (Action: Keys cost +3[AE] during your opponent's next turn.) remain in play until your opponent's next turn, are you?

 

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I can see the ambiguity here because page 5 says to resolve as much of the effect as possible then discard it. It could be either way ie

The card is played, it creates an effect that occasionally will go off again if triggers are met for the stated limit. You’ve done as much as you can for now, discard it.

or

The card is played, it creates an effect that occasionally will go off again if triggers are met for the stated limit. Since it can go off again it hasn’t been full resolved, don’t discard it.

I lean towards the former since by playing it you’ve “done as much as you can” if you would have to take further independent actions to trigger the card thus satisfying “do as much as you can”.

This said the only official source we have clarifying otherwise says it is discarded and the effect lingers that seems to be the common sense answer to go with until we get an FAQ or errata.

Edited by TwitchyBait

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On 11/29/2018 at 11:55 PM, Talamare said:

There is no 'lingering effect' in the rulebook

Keep Library Access on the table until it finishes resolving its effect at the end of turn.

Just to help me understand, why do you think it resolves like this? From what I can see there is nothing in the rules to suggest that a card like Library Access (or other cards that introduce temporary ongoing effects) stay on the table “in play” until the end of turn. You play the card, gain it’s effect and discard it.

To get back to the OP, I do think in the case of help from future self that you do shuffle the discard pile back into your deck before you play it, as that is part of resolving the card.

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4 minutes ago, TheSpitfired said:

Just to help me understand, why do you think it resolves like this? From what I can see there is nothing in the rules to suggest that a card like Library Access (or other cards that introduce temporary ongoing effects) stay on the table “in play” until the end of turn. You play the card, gain it’s effect and discard it.

To get back to the OP, I do think in the case of help from future self that you do shuffle the discard pile back into your deck before you play it, as that is part of resolving the card.

I believe it's because of the idea that the effect can still occur.
For help from future self the effect technically doesn't end until you've shuffled your discard pile into your deck. At that I agree it's likely it doesn't get shuffled back in as it wouldn't hit the discard pile till after the effect ended.
However then there's cards like library access where it's a little more unclear (if we take the wording alone and ignore how the lead developer played it in a video).
In this instance it says "For the remainder of the turn each time you play another card draw a card".
So the question becomes is the effect that it establishes a rule for the turn and then you've done what you can for the turn and thus it hits the discard pile immediately after play OR is the effect not finished until the end of the turn since it can still trigger.

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7 hours ago, TwitchyBait said:

I believe it's because of the idea that the effect can still occur.
For help from future self the effect technically doesn't end until you've shuffled your discard pile into your deck. At that I agree it's likely it doesn't get shuffled back in as it wouldn't hit the discard pile till after the effect ended.
However then there's cards like library access where it's a little more unclear (if we take the wording alone and ignore how the lead developer played it in a video).
In this instance it says "For the remainder of the turn each time you play another card draw a card".
So the question becomes is the effect that it establishes a rule for the turn and then you've done what you can for the turn and thus it hits the discard pile immediately after play OR is the effect not finished until the end of the turn since it can still trigger.

Thank you, I think it’s safe to say I think my reply still stands in terms of what I think but I see the other side of it better. 

However I could see it where they say to leave it out until the end of the turn, and if I see that ruling made I’ll play it that way.

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