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Oldpara

Polish SOS Top16/32 lists

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10 minutes ago, DexterOnone said:

I never said I6 is all that matters... but it can't be a coincidence that all of the competitive Rebel lists feature one, when very few Imperial or Scum players seem to be using them!

Yes it can. Sure it can, why not?

If Wedge just happens to be the most efficiently costed pilot Rebels have for what he brings to the table, than his Initiative might not even matter. 

Again, Fenn Rau costs the exact same points, so getting a cheap I6 can't be all there is to it.

Wedge is picked because he has I6, access to the talent slot for Swarm Tactics, access to torps (although that's not always necessary, see lists above) and most importantly because he's in a 3 attack ship with access to repositioning, and a solid, always helpful ability.

How is that any different from any of these other ships being taken because of the combination of attributes they possess? You may as well say "Redline is only taken for his ability". I mean... yeah. Duh?

Rebels may have fewer competitive list archetypes than other factions. They may have fewer competitive pilots but can we please stop acting like they don't have competitive lists and that Wedge isn't competitive, at least to the standard of only being close behind.

He might not be winning tournaments, so maybe calling him alpha s-rank tier 1 bestest is unwarranted. 

But this schtick of "he's only taken because he's a cheap(ish) I6" needs to go away. 

13 minutes ago, ryfterek said:

You want your I6 to occupy a decent chassis. 

I mean, I feel like that's exactly what I'm saying?

He's an I6 yes, but he also occupies a decent chassis.

Sorry, what's your point here? 

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48 minutes ago, Quack Shot said:

Rebel Han is actually extremely good, people just aren’t playing him. 

I agree, I've been playing him for a while and he's surprising good.

What's not that good it's his wingman thought...

33 minutes ago, ryfterek said:

I would take I6 "Diamond Squadron Ace" for 48 or less points anytime over any named X-Wing pilot. 

I6 is all that really matters in terms of Wedge being the top X-Wing pilot pick for rebels. I6 with one red, one green behind one hull wouldn't win you piss, so yeah, there's that. You want your I6 to occupy a decent chassis. 

What's wrong with Wedge ability to valuing it so low? It's one of the strongest of second edition...

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I kind of wish the Rebel lists were more encouraging. They're all 3 or 4 ship lists and with the exception of the Wedge/Garven/Dutch build, the Synergy that was allegedly the faction identity in concept, is nowhere to be seen.

 

This might not seem like that big of an issue, but there are a lot of synergy abilities in faction and a lot of ships that don't slot properly into 3-4 ship lists I.e. There's a lot of dead elements in the faction. There also isn't a single generic and most lists are a permutation of 1-2 main fighters (Luke,Norra,Wedge) + 1-2 support or auxiliary damage (Sabine, AP-5, Jan).

 

There are some outliers, but the consistent result is that the faction basically has 6 pilots that get mixed and matched with a possible jank wildcard like Blount or something.

 

Contrast this with some of the variety of scum and empire that are going from 2 ship lists all the way up to 5 and with more variety in pilots (both named and generic) and it's easy to see why people are finding Rebels to be a little or underpowered when you deviate from thus formula. Rebels are fine(tm).

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3 hours ago, Redblock said:

I see Talonbane Cobra in Top 18, now I have hope for future :)

He's not even close in power to his other factions counterparts in similar cost (Soontir Fel, Wedge Antilles) but in this particular squad he was able to shine. He is ok when in the middle of the pack where opponent have troubles with target priorities (since all targets are equally dangerous) and when he can utilize his hard1/bank1/Tallon2. 

I obliterated 2 Fenns in r1 with Focus and Predator procs :) All thx to area denial capabilities of the whole squad.

1 vs 1 Talonbane looses against almost everything 😕

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3 hours ago, Sunitsa said:

I agree, I've been playing him for a while and he's surprising good.

 What's not that good it's his wingman thought...

I’ve been running Han/Luke with pretty good success

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3.       Bartosz Wójcicki (lost in top4 against runner-up)

Luke Skywalker + Supernatural Reflexex, S-foils, Proton Torpedoes, R2 astromech

Wedge Antilles + S-folis, Proton Torpedoes

Sabine Wren (shuttle) + Debris Gambit

192 pts

 

Sorry, his Sabine had Juke not Debris Gambit. (Ask him how much he likes Porkins...)

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23 minutes ago, Gilarius said:

3.       Bartosz Wójcicki (lost in top4 against runner-up)

Luke Skywalker + Supernatural Reflexex, S-foils, Proton Torpedoes, R2 astromech

Wedge Antilles + S-folis, Proton Torpedoes

Sabine Wren (shuttle) + Debris Gambit

192 pts

 

Sorry, his Sabine had Juke not Debris Gambit. (Ask him how much he likes Porkins...)

Yep, mistake (Juke is counted in points, Debris is listed tho by mistake). Corrected. 

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I'm so glad the 2-ship list didn't win the final. Super super super happy to see most lists being 3+ ships!!!

Not too much new to learn about the meta from this tourny. There are still more pilots to be discovered most definitely (Echo.....)

  • Wedge is straight up good. (people who say otherwise have been wrong since point costs were revealed)
  • Scum falcon is good (Lando & Han anyways)
  • Talonbane Cobra is decent (I have seem him do well in my local meta too)
  • AP-5 is good and underused by Rebel players
  • Jan Ors is good and may be seen more

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Wedge's ability is mediocre- it is mathematically significantly weaker than palob's on the offense under just about every circumstances, and it doesn't offer the defensive and psychological effects that come with that. His power comes from the combination of his cheap, effective chassis and scarcity of 6es in the metagame, with countering Boba, Luke and Whisper as an added bonus. I expect his relevancy to diminish alongside all those dumb lategame 5s such as Whisper, AdvSen Guri and SR Luke once the game starts becoming saturated with relevant 6es.

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Just now, Elavion said:

Wedge's ability is mediocre- it is mathematically significantly weaker than palob's on the offense under just about every circumstances, and it doesn't offer the defensive and psychological effects that come with that. His power comes from the combination of his cheap, effective chassis and scarcity of 6es in the metagame, with countering Boba, Luke and Whisper as an added bonus. I expect his relevancy to diminish alongside all those dumb lategame 5s such as Whisper, AdvSen Guri and SR Luke once the game starts becoming saturated with relevant 6es.

Agreed up until the "I expect.." bit. His ability is usually less good than a single reroll. But one advantage his ability has is stack-ability/higher ceiling. Decent support + good place for support to go are the main, ingredient for the best current rebel archetype (4-ship)

As for the last bit, I double we will ever be anything close to being "saturated" with i6s anywhere near enough to make i5s relevant. 

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23 minutes ago, Elavion said:

Wedge's ability is mediocre- it is mathematically significantly weaker than palob's on the offense under just about every circumstances, and it doesn't offer the defensive and psychological effects that come with that. His power comes from the combination of his cheap, effective chassis and scarcity of 6es in the metagame, with countering Boba, Luke and Whisper as an added bonus. I expect his relevancy to diminish alongside all those dumb lategame 5s such as Whisper, AdvSen Guri and SR Luke once the game starts becoming saturated with relevant 6es.

 

Honestly, while his initiative is a factor, his ability becomes very relevant against 2 agl heavily modded ships (Boba, Whisper, Luke) and even against the 3 agl ones like Fel, Soontir or Guri. The TL:DR is that Wedge puts a harder clock on your opponent being able to punch through damage even against lots of mods and full paint.

 

I think both assessments of Wedge I.e. terrible or great are off. Wedge is fine(tm). He's well costed and the meta adds artificial value to his ability.

Edited by MasterShake2

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46 minutes ago, Elavion said:

Wedge's ability is mediocre- it is mathematically significantly weaker than palob's on the offense under just about every circumstances, and it doesn't offer the defensive and psychological effects that come with that. His power comes from the combination of his cheap, effective chassis and scarcity of 6es in the metagame, with countering Boba, Luke and Whisper as an added bonus. I expect his relevancy to diminish alongside all those dumb lategame 5s such as Whisper, AdvSen Guri and SR Luke once the game starts becoming saturated with relevant 6es.

I agree with the above.

He's ability IS mediocre, but it's not only about ability. It's only 52 pts for PS, 6 HP behind 2 greens, torp slot etc! Please bear in mind that for similar ability but working only out of enemy's arc (Ourmanevouer ept) you need to pay 6 pts. So stop tunneling Wedge as "ability" carrier but as just perfectly costed Rebel power piece.

(do you remember 1.0 Kylo Ren? was his ability super or something? nope - it was - I would say - less than mediocre, but whole chassis with all those greens, with PS9, with advances sensors was great making Kylo awesome ship overall)

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On 11/28/2018 at 6:18 AM, Oldpara said:

He's not even close in power to his other factions counterparts in similar cost (Soontir Fel, Wedge Antilles) but in this particular squad he was able to shine. He is ok when in the middle of the pack where opponent have troubles with target priorities (since all targets are equally dangerous) and when he can utilize his hard1/bank1/Tallon2. 

 

Did anyone see talonbane and quinn in action on the table? I really want to know what wizardry Maciej was using to get torps off at i3 and make that list work 

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19 hours ago, Oldpara said:

I agree with the above.

He's ability IS mediocre, but it's not only about ability. It's only 52 pts for PS, 6 HP behind 2 greens, torp slot etc! Please bear in mind that for similar ability but working only out of enemy's arc (Ourmanevouer ept) you need to pay 6 pts. So stop tunneling Wedge as "ability" carrier but as just perfectly costed Rebel power piece.

(do you remember 1.0 Kylo Ren? was his ability super or something? nope - it was - I would say - less than mediocre, but whole chassis with all those greens, with PS9, with advances sensors was great making Kylo awesome ship overall)

Well, I wouldn't say it's "mediocre". The highest costing EPT for now is Outmanouver, and he has a significantly better version of that built in.

Also, either it's mediocre or

 

20 hours ago, Elavion said:

 countering Boba, Luke and Whisper as an added bonus.

Countering Boba and Whisper is anything but "mediocre", they're one of the most flown pilots in the current meta. Also, with new evade working only up to the number of evade dice thrown, he is significantly better against any evade ships. He's rubbish against a low number of unmodified dice though, that's true.

It's not obscene like what Palob does or Boba does at range 1, but I wouldn't call it mediocre. I agree with Oldpara though, that his low cost high Initiative and 6HP is what makes him shine, though.

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