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rcm17

How well will the SSD counter yavaris?

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Just think about it...

Red and blue flak, Kallus + QLT, Annihilator, and three attacks per turn. It seems like the assault prototype can become an anti-squadron monster without losing out too much in other areas.

What do you guys think?

Edited by rcm17

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7 minutes ago, dominosfleet said:

Is "destroying it in one shot at long range" An option? Because I think that's likely how it will "counter" said ship. It's a fragile, fragile ship; it explodes to a hard wind. 

True, and even if rieekan keeps it alive, it’s squadrons will still get shredded.

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3 hours ago, rcm17 said:

Red and blue flak, Kallus + QLT, Annihilator, and three attacks per turn. 

Yes. It is indeed horrific for your typical Yavaris Aces build we've seen so often. With Kallus and Annihilator, QLT is highly like to cause at least one damage per shot. The red and blue flak plus Kallus is almost guaranteed at least one damage as well. Wiping out any double tapping Yavaris bombers is near inevitable in two turns. 

I normally hate hard counters, but Yavaris Aces has dominated long enough. Rebs have other options out there for bombing the SSD if they want anyway. Y-Wing swarms are cheap and tough, making them ideal for going after Annihilator.

Edited by Truthiness

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It really is about time we get one non-spammable ship that can just make squadrons hate life.  Sloane will loathe this too, but she can probably strip a bunch of defense tokens for Avenger and run her bloodied squads out of range.  Poor B-wings aren't fast enough for a hit and run.

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18 minutes ago, Crewgar said:

Depends, if you add in Officer Palpatine even Sloan aces with their scatter will be hard pressed to kill the tokens fast enough.

Maarek/Jendon/Ciena (and Whisper, you did bring Whisper right?  Cool people bring Whisper)  should still stand a chance of getting the job done, but it won't be a sure thing.  Scatter aces will simply spend their brace, which is less annoying (still relevant, but not decisive.)

I'm still in love with Ravager over Annihilator tbh; imagine confiring two extra blues at a scatter ace.  Half the price, much of the benefit with PDR, great vs ships too.

Edited by The Jabbawookie

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9 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:

If only we had Rebel fighters 1 in stock.  Instead, I look at Lancers?

lancers would be great against the SSD, it's like the 1 time they'd shine. Nem (or whatever tf that scurrg hero is) would be pretty effective. 

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Interesting that people are getting excited at the idea of 300+ points of ships and upgrades doing really well against what maxes out at about 200 points worth of Rebel build. 

 

Sure, a lone Yavaris and squads should get killdozed by an SSD. It is the other 200-250 points of Rebel fleet you need to add into the equation.

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44 minutes ago, Church14 said:

Interesting that people are getting excited at the idea of 300+ points of ships and upgrades doing really well against what maxes out at about 200 points worth of Rebel build. 

 

Sure, a lone Yavaris and squads should get killdozed by an SSD. It is the other 200-250 points of Rebel fleet you need to add into the equation.

It seems people are referencing the common Yavaris builds. So, once you take care of Yavaris and 134 pts of squads, there isn't much left to the fleet. 

Maybe an AFII and a couple of flotillas. Perhaps an light MC80 with Dodonna on board and some flotillas. The fleets that use Yavaris as their big stick generally don't have enough punching power in the rest of their fleet to do much once you take out Yavaris and/or the squads.

No one here is imagining they are flying the SSD against just Yavaris and a bunch of squads.

Edited by Astrodar
random, unnecessary, comma, in, a, sentence

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15 hours ago, Truthiness said:

With Kallus and Annihilator, QLT is highly like to cause at least one damage per shot.

Does one even need annihilator (assuming leading shots)? Also a red + blue flak makes h9/qtc combo with Kallus an interesting choice against scatter aces.

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1 hour ago, Church14 said:

Sure, a lone Yavaris and squads should get killdozed by an SSD. It is the other 200-250 points of Rebel fleet you need to add into the equation.


Why, that other portion of the Rebel fleet is likely not going to be a threat to the Executor's pile of HP.  Yavaris builds tend to deal the vast majority of their damage through their bombers, and if they are quickly off the table that's probably the game for the SSD.

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But yea, the SSD will utterly own Yavaris-Aces, and there really isn't anything in counterplay the Yavaris player can do about it.  If your squads go near the SSD, they die.  If your squads don't go near the SSD, there's no way you can kill it.  Lose, lose.  Yavaris player will have to play for the 6-5, but with the SSD's giant base I'm not sure how easy it will be to avoid for six rounds.

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18 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:


Why, that other portion of the Rebel fleet is likely not going to be a threat to the Executor's pile of HP.  Yavaris builds tend to deal the vast majority of their damage through their bombers, and if they are quickly off the table that's probably the game for the SSD.

Part of my response was probably fueled by my default Yavaris Build also rocking an Ackbar powered Defiance. So for me, the other part of my list can actually punch on decent terms against that SSD. 

 

Though the old Gallant Haven or Pelta Aceholes lists aren’t going to do anything worthwhile. 

Edited by Church14

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Yaris + 134 could be.... 3 B-wings, Gold, Jan, Wedge, Dutch, 2 X-Wings.

Not too bomby, still with the flexibility to deal with squadron builds using the Wedge/Dutch double tapping combo and plenty of escort to keep Jan alive etc.  

So 3 B-Wings double tapping with a BCC nearby should get you 12 damage in 1,2&3 point groups with the occasional accuracy thrown in. SSD braces won't be much of a problem to this and only 2 redirects per turn before the SSD has to start discarding tokens isn't too bad either. Contains likewise will soon run out or have to be rationed to 2 a turn (this could really upset the Imperials if Dodonna is in charge). The other fighters in the list can also attack once a turn doing another 7 damage on average. Yavaris itself chips in another 2-3. Basic B-Wings won't suffer from Kallus three times a turn and Jan can always lend a brace to the B-wing getting damaged the most. Jan probably shouldn't attack the ship and could stay obscured on a rock or behind a flotilla if it can especially if there are TIEs in the area that could engage the bombers for a turn or two and so this tempts her out. Yavaris with 2 braces and an evade can probably take a punch on the nose from an SSD front or front/side arc at medium range. The double braces and 3 front shields mean a second shot next turn will probably be needed to finish it off and if a banked repair token can shift 2 rear shields to the front it may possibly take a third shot to do the job. Obviously don't get hit in the flank or double arced if you can help it.

So in the above we have about 20 damage to the SSD if things go well and most of the fighters will be on half damage. Next turn Rieekan Yavaris and do it all again loosing maybe half of your fighters while others survive due to their braces or just a little luck due to how the damage accumulates. If the B-Wigns are dead or very tattered then instead Yavaris double tap with Gold, Wedge & Dutch the following turn to let them take the heat a while. Kallus + Counter can be braced by their natural brace tokens or one lent from Jan.

So what about the other 200 points in the list. Well an MC80C with ECM should happily survive the one big shot from the SSD by bracing using ECM and redirecting 4 damage to an adjacent shield for 2 turns at least before the Hull starts to get touched. Its firepower even without Laser upgrades or LS should start to hurt and the SSD may wish to keep a brace back for this volley just in case. 2 Flotillas I grant you will do little other than BCC, coms net a squadron token to Yavaris and possibly ram Gozantis. The SSD probably won't shoot them - using its GTs to Flak and shoot Yavaris and the Command cruiser each turn.

So If Yavaris is piling on the damage, who cares if the bombers are getting clobbered by flak, Kallus and counter? You have to take the SSD down and saving yourself 28 points by running away with 2 damaged B-wings pales when compared to the rewards of killing the big ship. Just keep throwing them in and stick with your bombing strategy. No guts no glory.

 

Against the 30 hull SSDs well you are probably playing a 600 or 800 point game but still Yavaris + 134 will probably get you the most bang for your 200 points while you get help form 400 or 600 points of cruisers. SSDs are also slow so could be ignored if you can get past them kill a few small ships and run avoiding the massed firepower of the strong but slow SSD.

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5 hours ago, PT106 said:

Does one even need annihilator (assuming leading shots)? Also a red + blue flak makes h9/qtc combo with Kallus an interesting choice against scatter aces.

Not necessarily, but Annihilator is useful for QLTs when you're dealing with non-Aces, unlike leading shots.

Edited by Truthiness

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5 hours ago, Mad Cat said:

Yaris + 134 could be.... 3 B-wings, Gold, Jan, Wedge, Dutch, 2 X-Wings.

Not too bomby, still with the flexibility to deal with squadron builds using the Wedge/Dutch double tapping combo and plenty of escort to keep Jan alive etc.  

So 3 B-Wings double tapping with a BCC nearby should get you 12 damage in 1,2&3 point groups with the occasional accuracy thrown in. SSD braces won't be much of a problem to this and only 2 redirects per turn before the SSD has to start discarding tokens isn't too bad either. Contains likewise will soon run out or have to be rationed to 2 a turn (this could really upset the Imperials if Dodonna is in charge). The other fighters in the list can also attack once a turn doing another 7 damage on average. Yavaris itself chips in another 2-3. Basic B-Wings won't suffer from Kallus three times a turn and Jan can always lend a brace to the B-wing getting damaged the most. Jan probably shouldn't attack the ship and could stay obscured on a rock or behind a flotilla if it can especially if there are TIEs in the area that could engage the bombers for a turn or two and so this tempts her out. Yavaris with 2 braces and an evade can probably take a punch on the nose from an SSD front or front/side arc at medium range. The double braces and 3 front shields mean a second shot next turn will probably be needed to finish it off and if a banked repair token can shift 2 rear shields to the front it may possibly take a third shot to do the job. Obviously don't get hit in the flank or double arced if you can help it.

So in the above we have about 20 damage to the SSD if things go well and most of the fighters will be on half damage. Next turn Rieekan Yavaris and do it all again loosing maybe half of your fighters while others survive due to their braces or just a little luck due to how the damage accumulates. If the B-Wigns are dead or very tattered then instead Yavaris double tap with Gold, Wedge & Dutch the following turn to let them take the heat a while. Kallus + Counter can be braced by their natural brace tokens or one lent from Jan.

So what about the other 200 points in the list. Well an MC80C with ECM should happily survive the one big shot from the SSD by bracing using ECM and redirecting 4 damage to an adjacent shield for 2 turns at least before the Hull starts to get touched. Its firepower even without Laser upgrades or LS should start to hurt and the SSD may wish to keep a brace back for this volley just in case. 2 Flotillas I grant you will do little other than BCC, coms net a squadron token to Yavaris and possibly ram Gozantis. The SSD probably won't shoot them - using its GTs to Flak and shoot Yavaris and the Command cruiser each turn.

So If Yavaris is piling on the damage, who cares if the bombers are getting clobbered by flak, Kallus and counter? You have to take the SSD down and saving yourself 28 points by running away with 2 damaged B-wings pales when compared to the rewards of killing the big ship. Just keep throwing them in and stick with your bombing strategy. No guts no glory.

 

Against the 30 hull SSDs well you are probably playing a 600 or 800 point game but still Yavaris + 134 will probably get you the most bang for your 200 points while you get help form 400 or 600 points of cruisers. SSDs are also slow so could be ignored if you can get past them kill a few small ships and run avoiding the massed firepower of the strong but slow SSD.

You forgot that if you're playing a larger game, then the squadron cap goes up. At 600, you can have 200 pts of squadrons and at 800 you get 266 pts. Not saying it's worth it at that point, but still.

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