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Hugeman

A comparison - Dengar(JM5k) v Kavil(Y-Wing)

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Dengar — JumpMaster 5000        64

Proton Torpedoes            9

Punishing One    8

Ship Total: 81

              

Kavil — BTL-A4 Y-Wing   42

Dorsal Turret      4

Proton Torpedoes            9

R4 Astromech     2

Shield Upgrade   4

Ship Total: 61

Granted

Dengar is 1 more agility and has the double tap but a good opponent will just ignore Dengar and go for other prey leaving him to last.

I would argue that with the R4, Kavil has a better dial and is a small base so probably harder to get shots on.

Add in the fact that the rotate arc on Dengar is only available via a red linked action and Kavil could add Han gunner for 4 more points.

Why would anyone possibly take Dengar over Kavil for competitive play and pay an extra 20 points for it?

I can see why folks are saying the JM5K is the worst ship in 2.0

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Dengar has the ability to block and is a point horde if he’s fat enough?

 

The JM5K could certainly use a price reduction or maybe a reshuffling of upgrades, it doesn’t have a whole lot of advantages

Edited by Quadjumper King

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Dengar may be overcosted....

but in this comparison we have:

+1 red dice over kavil when in the primary arc (the dorsal shots from kavil are stronger but only range 1-2)
+1 evade dice
+1 initiative
Double tap ability

for 20pts... it's not that bad. (kavil is overloaded... so it kind of makes dengar look better.)

frankly, I would not take either of those 2 builds... 

 

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14 minutes ago, Icelom said:

Dengar may be overcosted....

but in this comparison we have:

+1 red dice over kavil when in the primary arc (the dorsal shots from kavil are stronger but only range 1-2)
+1 evade dice
+1 initiative
Double tap ability

for 20pts... it's not that bad. (kavil is overloaded... so it kind of makes dengar look better.)

frankly, I would not take either of those 2 builds... 

 

Sort of see what you are saying on some points there BUT I disagree that Kavil is overloaded.  In fact the Kavil build (minus the shield upgrade which I only added for caomparison) with Han Gunner and perhaps Trick Shot it is very strong in the right list - check a few tournaments and you will find similar builds used to good success.

+1 red dice - Fair point but I reckon it would be rare that you would use the primary on Kavil.

+1 evade dice - The extra evade dice is marginal as the only way to mod those is with focus which could well have been spent on attack.  And if you consider that Wedge and lots of Juke are common then that extra green really becomes of little advantage.  As I said before Kavil is slightly more maneuverable and is a small base. 

+1 initiative The +1 initiative is interesting.  To make the best use of I6 it really needs a decent bid so you sort of pay for it twice - extra points plus bid points.

20 points is a big difference.  That's just 2 points shy of the L337 escape craft.

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Add a Veteran Turret Gunner to Kavil for a double tap, to make for a fairer comparison... 

While his primary isn't as good as the turret shot, if you get lucky it can force your opponent to spend tokens or use abilities against the weaker shot before you follow up with the turret.

 

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The Jumpmaster is pretty obviously overcosted, but that build honestly doesn't seem all that bad. 4 attack dice, at I6, with 9 HP behind 2 agility, with a decent pilot ability, for 81 points? I'd throw Trick Shot and 0-0-0 on him and give it a go. Then, when he drops ten points, you'll be ready.

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1 hour ago, Okapi said:

The Jumpmaster is pretty obviously overcosted, but that build honestly doesn't seem all that bad. 4 attack dice, at I6, with 9 HP behind 2 agility, with a decent pilot ability, for 81 points? I'd throw Trick Shot and 0-0-0 on him and give it a go. Then, when he drops ten points, you'll be ready.

Can't take 000 or any other crew as the punishing one upgrade removes the crew and adds a astromech.

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1 minute ago, Hugeman said:

Can't take 000 or any other crew as the punishing one upgrade removes the crew and adds a astromech.

An R3 then. You need the lock anyway, and if you're jousting two ships you might need two locks.

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