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Dash Is Back

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On 11/26/2018 at 2:19 PM, Dreadai said:

It’s good but not great. It relies entirely on matchups and variance. As an average player I flew it to 2-4 ignominy at nerfherder. I could have gone 4-2 with better strategy and target choices in two games and a bit of luck  

As others have said, you will likely lose to anyone who has faced it before 

 

Dude, you played this?!

That's awesome. :)

About your "matchup/variance dependency", I can see that.

It's lumping 2-4 ships of dice into one ship, and you're gonna feel all that variance for sure. 

One bad roll when you really need a kill, and you're done. 

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On 11/27/2018 at 5:07 AM, william1134 said:

I tried Dash twice now and well.. he is pretty awful.

He just isn't the same ship as before.  In 1.0 you could dance around with boost/barrel roll combos. Now you only get the ONE action and to make things worse his barrel roll is RED and he doesn't get a boost! 

So he is now very sluggish and dies pretty quickly under concentrated fire.  

Before he lived by the dance and being out of arc at all times. This is now gone and even if you do get a good maneuver in, you need to spend your action to rotate your arc so byebye modification to shots.

 

Just too expensive... 

I have to agree that for the points, spending an action to rotate is... Massively prohibitive.

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1 hour ago, Captain Lackwit said:

I have to agree that for the points, spending an action to rotate is... Massively prohibitive.

Early on, I just swallowed the pill and stapled Luke Gunner on YTs. Tried it without him and felt like I just couldn't fly YTs the way I wanted and being forced  to throw unmodified shots to stay in the fight. 

At that point, I figured I might as well be running generic X's or B's for the whole tanky+unmodified experience.

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3 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

Early on, I just swallowed the pill and stapled Luke Gunner on YTs. Tried it without him and felt like I just couldn't fly YTs the way I wanted and being forced  to throw unmodified shots to stay in the fight. 

At that point, I figured I might as well be running generic X's or B's for the whole tanky+unmodified experience.

Never tried them with Luke since he's prohibitively expensive.  I've run Agile Gunner a few times and that definitely helps, though usually I try to plan ahead and fly in such a way that I'm not forced to rotate the turret more than 3 times in the match.

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On 11/27/2018 at 6:07 AM, william1134 said:

I tried Dash twice now and well.. he is pretty awful.

He just isn't the same ship as before.  In 1.0 you could dance around with boost/barrel roll combos. Now you only get the ONE action and to make things worse his barrel roll is RED and he doesn't get a boost! 

So he is now very sluggish and dies pretty quickly under concentrated fire.  

Before he lived by the dance and being out of arc at all times. This is now gone and even if you do get a good maneuver in, you need to spend your action to rotate your arc so byebye modification to shots.

 

Just too expensive... 

All of this.  I've played the Dash/Roark list twice now.  I won both games, but I think that that was due more to my opponents flying poorly than anything.  I really, REALLY miss having boost on Dash.  I have thought about putting Expert Handling on instead of Trick Shot but you lose a whole die that way, it's SIX points for EH on a large base ship, and you're still losing your mods if you barrel roll anyway.  Speaking of which, one turn I barrel rolled so that I could get a double tap through an asteroid.  That's two 5-dice attacks!  I cackled with glee as I gathered my dice.  After all was said and done I rolled exactly 1 hit result on 10 dice, which my opponent promptly evaded.  Unmodded rolls suck.

Personally, I think Dash would have been perfectly fine if he played exactly the way he did before, but with a mobile arc instead of a 360 turret.

 

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8 hours ago, Bucknife said:

Early on, I just swallowed the pill and stapled Luke Gunner on YTs. Tried it without him and felt like I just couldn't fly YTs the way I wanted and being forced  to throw unmodified shots to stay in the fight. 

At that point, I figured I might as well be running generic X's or B's for the whole tanky+unmodified experience.

Honestly having to do an action for it instead of doing it end-of-round might be the largest overcorrection of 2.0. Which it isn't really too late to fix. A free rotation at the end of the round allows action economy and the chance to still screw it up.

Yes, you can just correct it before your guns fire... at the cost of an action. But that sounds way better than constantly unmodded shots. Do that and reduce the cost only a little, turrets will see a lot more play.

Which, while it's cool to see good flying, we need more of, for the sake of variety.

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1 hour ago, MikeEvans said:

All of this.  I've played the Dash/Roark list twice now.  I won both games, but I think that that was due more to my opponents flying poorly than anything.  I really, REALLY miss having boost on Dash.  I have thought about putting Expert Handling on instead of Trick Shot but you lose a whole die that way, it's SIX points for EH on a large base ship, and you're still losing your mods if you barrel roll anyway.  Speaking of which, one turn I barrel rolled so that I could get a double tap through an asteroid.  That's two 5-dice attacks!  I cackled with glee as I gathered my dice.  After all was said and done I rolled exactly 1 hit result on 10 dice, which my opponent promptly evaded.  Unmodded rolls suck.

Personally, I think Dash would have been perfectly fine if he played exactly the way he did before, but with a mobile arc instead of a 360 turret.

 

sure thing just don't forget the donut hole

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So I went up against a Leebo/Roark with C3PO on Leebo as well as Han. My list was a U-wing with 3 Xwings. Got a block on Leebo which also blocked Roark, and the list all but melted. Very much a feast or Famine list. I think the player went 1-3 on the day? While interesting I don’t know if it’s really the best use of the combo. 

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18 hours ago, joeshmoe554 said:

Never tried them with Luke since he's prohibitively expensive.  I've run Agile Gunner a few times and that definitely helps, though usually I try to plan ahead and fly in such a way that I'm not forced to rotate the turret more than 3 times in the match.

We ran Dash and Super Luke in a store tourney recently. Did pretty well but it wouldn't translate to national level play brilliantly.

But, the point- I think we only rotated the arc once or twice in 3 games. If at all, now I'm thinking about it...

At the level we were playing, it was always better to forgo that one shot, zoom off and grab the focus instead (2 = PerCo), then line up for another succession of modded attacks on the next turn. If you rotate once, you almost always have to consider doing it again, it's a slippery slope.

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I am not a tournament player; no titles or trophies; I typically fly casual, local store league, friends & family.

I perceive this list as giving Rebel players a chance against some of the 'meta' lists out their.

This list is a challenge to fly for the best benefit of the tricks it has. And isn't that one of the points of v2, to make how you fly matter more?

The heat this list is taking is no different then when v1 Rey+Finn and Poe was a thing.

The best Imperial and Scum pilots of my local league simply tighten their harness, fire up their engines and 'adapt' their flight plan, rather then crying / whining. The rest have gotten punished. So far I am 50-50 with this list.

Got to tell you, as a Rebel pilot, it is a thrill to dangle Roark as bait and blow away a Redline or Whisper or Soontir or Lord Vader or pick your Ace, in one exchange; a swell payback for having endured all the multi-action / token action and ability tricks that the Empire and Scum can generate.

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I had the chance to play against this list with a very strong opponent, I was flying double phantoms with Vermeil. Went 2-1 and the consensus was that it now takes a great deal of skill to fly this list, as he is not the boogieman he was in 1.0. The list highly depends on a ship that has a total of 5 hull and shields and if that goes down early the list falls apart; Dash cannot hold on his own any more. Both games won was by blocking dash in the first round of fire and go full speed for the HWK behind him. I would usually lose a ship but with Roark gone too its 2 ships VS 1. When Dash did not have to use actions to turn the arc around that would have been an uphill for me but now that he can be ark dodged and rolls only 3 attack dice r1 he is in a tough spot. There are also many points invested on him so if the match goes to time the odds are against him usually if he is missing half the hull.

Additionally he will have serious problems against PS 6 aces that can ark-dodge him. Sure he can attack at PS 7 "if" there is an ace in arc, but unless he gets the ace in the early game he cant win against higher PS in the end game IMO. The red action to barrel roll hurts him too much and I am happy the way 2.0 balance worked on him.

Another match up I did not see Dash do well was against double Punishers. They have too much hull to chew even with 2 PS 7 attacks and they have 2 torpedoes for him.

Edited by tsondaboy

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I have been really disappointed with him. I think ffg went too far with neuteuring him. I want all ships to be viable in 2E. Not some more so than others (looking at you poe and boba) or some being utter waste of space (generic tie advanced). I want all ships to be on a equal playing field.

 

With dash however he just has too many nerfs built into the ship itself. Sure you can reduce the cost but unless it is by quite a bit then I dont think we will see much dash.

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