Looking for a little help

[Suimaru 8]

So, I'm going to be running a game, after reading through the book, I took a look at the Sample NPCs and noticed they don't have a skill list but instead have the skill categories with numbers listed next to them. I assume this means that number is what they roll for the skill in that group then they just add in the relevant ring but part of me thinks I am wrong.

I have a few other questions but I think I should start here, first.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Suimaru

[broselovestar 25]

Your interpretation is correct. Managing NPCs via skillgroups is a little easier than having a huge table of skill. Of course as the GM, you make the last call. If the NPC has a scholar skillgroup value of 1 but you think that he particularly will be very lacking in terms of theology for narrative reason, go ahead and treat it as 0. The skillgroups are meant to give you a starting point more than a definitive standard.

[Suimaru 8]

Oh, I see. Well, that makes me feel a little more confident.

 

The next question is actually going to be a few questions.

This one is about the Military and Intrigue conflict ranks. If I were to, say, make my own NPCs, how would I get them to fit into those, so they don't absolutely steamroll my players? I feel like this is going to come up, if I try to include my own NPCs, because the conflict ranks don't really tell me how to fit my own NPCs into it, unless I am missing something.

The next one is Critical Strikes, the lower severity ones don't seem so bad. I'm a tad worried about the higher severity ones. Permanent injuries, loss of limbs or other things or just straight death, these seem like they'd just frustrate players. How often will critical strikes come up? How bad can they make things go, for a game, if the more serious ones come up?

[broselovestar 25]

19 minutes ago, Suimaru said:

This one is about the Military and Intrigue conflict ranks. If I were to, say, make my own NPCs, how would I get them to fit into those, so they don't absolutely steamroll my players? I feel like this is going to come up, if I try to include my own NPCs, because the conflict ranks don't really tell me how to fit my own NPCs into it, unless I am missing something.

Page 310 of the core book should answer your question. In short, your PCs' total school rank should be comparable to your NPCs' total conflict rank (for that particular type of conflict) if they want a vanilla experience

20 minutes ago, Suimaru said:

The next one is Critical Strikes, the lower severity ones don't seem so bad. I'm a tad worried about the higher severity ones. Permanent injuries, loss of limbs or other things or just straight death, these seem like they'd just frustrate players. How often will critical strikes come up? How bad can they make things go, for a game, if the more serious ones come up?

If you are new to L5R, know that combat is lethal. This is not D&D or Pathfinder. Your PCs are not expected to fight through everything they see. At least not in the default mode of the game. If your PCs are into combat and want to fight a lot of things, consider "lowering the difficulty" or only allowing certain NPCs to crit your PCs. Otherwise, advise your PCs against senseless fighting before the adventure starts, especially if they have not played L5R before. I tend to think that those who have played L5R before would have enough scarring experience to dissuade them from trying to fight everything they see

[Magnus Grendel 11,672]

33 minutes ago, Suimaru said:

This one is about the Military and Intrigue conflict ranks. If I were to, say, make my own NPCs, how would I get them to fit into those, so they don't absolutely steamroll my players?

The easiest way to do it is to start with an existing one and 'tweak' them. Changing a weapon (a razor-edged weapon like a katana to a low-deadliness, high damage weapon like an otsuchi to add a Crab Clan feel) shouldn't dramatically change a PCs conflict rank, for example.

It doesn't need to be too exacting; any given rank is only a rough guide anyway - but generally, most NPCs you'll want to add are not a million miles from one existing 'stock' NPC.

Have a look at page 311 - adding NPC templates.

Basically, you can grab the 'Loyal Bushi' as a generic sword-wielding samurai, then drop any of the 7 templates on top to make him or her 'smarter', 'tricksier', 'stabbier' or whatever.

What sort of NPCs are we talking about here?

33 minutes ago, Suimaru said:

The next one is Critical Strikes, the lower severity ones don't seem so bad. I'm a tad worried about the higher severity ones. Permanent injuries, loss of limbs or other things or just straight death, these seem like they'd just frustrate players. How often will critical strikes come up? How bad can they make things go, for a game, if the more serious ones come up?

Well, obviously death is a bit of a problem!

It's at least in part "answer unclear" because how big a deal it is having your character die varies between different RPG player groups. in all my time GM-ing RPGs, I can count the number of PC kills on my fingers (not, for obvious reasons if you've played it, counting any Paranoia campaigns), whilst I know some tables who seem to think that if at least one PC doesn't get killed every week the GM is going easy on them ("Hide behind the pile of dead bards!").

Permenant injuries aren't too bad. Provided you survive, you end up with a disadvantage, which you can work with - sometimes even turn to your advantage (see the rules for inverting a disadvantage). Remember that even Blind is only a negative reroll once a scene or so.

I'd be surprised if someone doesn't take a critical strike during a big fight scene.

Also, one thing that's good for your players: note the recommendations that minions only spend * on effects listed in their profile, not generic opportunities. If you do that then they can't spend ** to inflict a critical strike, which means that a player will only get a critical strike from an adversary (big bad guy or serious monster) or from being hit again when incapacitated (and if incapacitated then you - and more importantly your allies - should be doing something about it, like the Fire opportunity which boosts attack TN if they don't change target to your ally).

By comparison, if you're in a climactic sword fight with the House Badguys Daimyo, you should be at risk of serious permanent injury.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2018 by Magnus Grendel

[Suimaru 8]

I see. I'll keep these in mind. Thanks, gives me a fair bit to think on.

[Magnus Grendel 11,672]

Remember that coping with a disadvantage isn't too bad.

Yes, you can find yourself taking a negative reroll if the adversity is relevant (so Blind, as an example, would probably be used to penalise you for a long-range bow-shot, but not necessarily in a sword-fight, where you can assume your character has learned to hear their opponent's blade- and foot-work).

However, you get the bonus that every time you use it and it makes you miss/fail/whatever, you get a void point - void points, aside from the free one-per-session, aren't easy to come by.

Finally, throwing in a void point to invert a disadvantage (think the scene from every-blind-swordsman-show-and-film-ever where the blind combatant slices their sword through the wick of the candle lighting the room, plunging it into darkness for a few seconds before a door or window can be opened) gives you an option which is more sometimes powerful than spending the void point 'normally' for a single extra die.

[AK_Aramis 1,002]

7 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

However, you get the bonus that every time you use it and it makes you miss/fail/whatever, you get a void point - void points, aside from the free one-per-session, aren't easy to come by.

That depends a lot on the GM - I've had players bounce upon the limit of Void Void-points a lot.

[broselovestar 25]

48 minutes ago, AK_Aramis said:

That depends a lot on the GM - I've had players bounce upon the limit of Void Void-points a lot.

interesting, I am of the impression that void point is harder to come by now. Can you give a quick run down of how your player manged that?

[AK_Aramis 1,002]

19 minutes ago, broselovestar said:

interesting, I am of the impression that void point is harder to come by now. Can you give a quick run down of how your player manged that?

Simple -

• they use their Adversity
  • while only failure earns a VP from adversity use, if you don't use it, you never get the VP.
• If they wouldn't know the TN inherently I don't tell them
  • this includes any roll where the TN is set by stats of the target

those two alone keep them in VP.
Also note: They're also prone to double-stacking - I don't tell them a TN, they ask if a adversity applies...

Last night's session, we had more than 1 VP per player; one spent 3 (and earned 3 back)

 

Edited November 26, 2018 by AK_Aramis

[Magnus Grendel 11,672]

15 minutes ago, broselovestar said:

interesting, I am of the impression that void point is harder to come by now. Can you give a quick run down of how your player manged that?

They are. But how many times a scene you can use a disadvantage to earn a void point is at GM discretion - see page 137 for guidance. Plus there's a chance for an extra one if you use the discord track.

[broselovestar 25]

8 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

But how many times a scene you can use a disadvantage to earn a void point is at GM discretion

This seems to be the key in moderating the party's void points, I'll pay close attention to it. Our game is still in the character creation / prelude phase so I haven't noticed some of the quirks in the system yet.

Thanks @AK_Aramis and @Magnus Grendel

[AK_Aramis 1,002]

12 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

They are. But how many times a scene you can use a disadvantage to earn a void point is at GM discretion - see page 137 for guidance. Plus there's a chance for an extra one if you use the discord track.

It really helps that they ask. I could simply call for it, but i tend to forget who has what.  And I'm running two games, total 10 regulars.

[Suimaru 8]

Hello, I am back with another question. Looking over Divination, it mentions adding a kept elemental die set to Opportunity/Strife.

Does this mean they just get an extra die set to that result and keep it or do they take one of their rolled die, set it to that result and keep it, thus not increasing the number of keepable die?

[ShermanS 14]

The former. There is a theory that some abilities might trigger off "kept dice" in the future so they didn't write it as "get a bonus opportunity" or something...

Also, kill characters. Been running games for nearly 40 years and it's fun to keep them on their toes. Many players consider making characters to be the best part of a game, so, give them lots to opportunities to do so!

 

[Suimaru 8]

Ah, thank you. As for killing characters, I dunno how well they'd take that but it's one of the things I plan to talk to them about, the lethality of the system's combat and the very real chance of death.

 

Also, I have a player, whose character is a phoenix shugenja, their ninjo is wanting to become the elemental master of fire, they are having trouble coming up with a giri, however. What they have said is, they do want their giri to somewhat conflict with their goal.

 

This also leads to something else, I don't see a title for elemental master and I'm not really sure what I should do for such a thing, I saw the example for emerald magistrate.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Suimaru

[ShermanS 14]

I was six when I played my first game of D&D and died in the first hour of play. Far from frustrating me, it made me feel like I had a lot to learn and want to come back and do better. I've always been of the opinion that a "Role-Playing Game" is both an opportunity to engage in some collaborative story-telling and play acting, and play a game. The game part has always meant that there are going to be challenges, and sometimes failure means death. I can't imagine running a combat and not having there be a chance of death.

I ran a game for some folks the other day and had a kid run off to kill a goblin that was fleeing their party. The rest of the party sat there and waited for him to return. He never did and they went to find his body. First encounter of the game. I handed him a new character with a half-way decent reason for being there, then got to listen to his dad taunt him for the next three hours for being reckless. It was magical, and the kid never did anything else reckless for the rest of the game literally saying, "No, I learned..." In the space of a few minutes, I took a kid from being a crazed murder-hobo who thought he was invulnerable, to a thoughtful role-player who wanted to think through things and actually figure out what he was doing and what the repercussions might be before doing them.

YMMV, but the vast majority of people really enjoy being challenged. I kill characters regularly, stories go in new directions, players get to come up with new ideas and learn to handle tough challenges, etc. Gary Gygax was really clear from the beginning that the story is developed by the DM, the players, and the dice.

Edited November 27, 2018 by player387247

[Suimaru 8]

Well, yeah. The threat of death will be there, I just won't be going out of my way to kill them (unless they do something stupid) dying due to bad die rolls, is more of a downer, rather than losing because you messed up, as you learn from that.

 

Also, I have a player, whose character is a phoenix shugenja, their ninjo is wanting to become the elemental master of fire, they are having trouble coming up with a giri, however. What they have said is, they do want their giri to somewhat conflict with their goal.

 

This also leads to something else, I don't see a title for elemental master and I'm not really sure what I should do for such a thing, I saw the example for emerald magistrate.

[broselovestar 25]

7 minutes ago, Suimaru said:

Well, yeah. The threat of death will be there, I just won't be going out of my way to kill them (unless they do something stupid) dying due to bad die rolls, is more of a downer, rather than losing because you messed up, as you learn from that.

Definitely some wisdom here. I tend to agree that dying merely from bad dice roll doesn't always lend itself to the best story. But regardless of how you - the GM - feel about challenging and killing your players, make sure you talk to your players about it first.

9 minutes ago, Suimaru said:

This also leads to something else, I don't see a title for elemental master and I'm not really sure what I should do for such a thing, I saw the example for emerald magistrate.

Yeah they have not have any other title beside emerald magistrate. Seems like the next source book - Emerald Empire - will include a few though. I think for now just hold off on that first. Becoming an elemental master tend to take decades of training, unless you already start with a very experienced PC. My suggestion - depending on how your campaign goes - is to have them start with a smaller ninjo that works towards that bigger ninjo. For example:

• Become a Fire Elemental Guard
• ...
• Become the Fire Scion
• ...
• Become the Fire Elemental Master

Tbh, each of these step probably will take an intricate full-length campaign to resolve. You are free to skip or add more step in between of course.

13 minutes ago, Suimaru said:

What they have said is, they do want their giri to somewhat conflict with their goal.

This is a really good question. It's really tough to answer to. Again, I'm not looking at the Fire Elemental Master because I think it's too big to be a ninjo for starting character. Suppose I want to ecome a Fire Elemental Guard, then some rough ideas for a giri can be:

• Another element demands my attention in some way. Maybe my family is a proud Earth lineage so everyone expects me to be calm and collected. Throw in an authority figure (my parents, grandparents, teacher, etc.) or a dead ancestor who constantly nags
• My family's estate demands attention. Becoming a guard means I have to sign up my life to the service of the council. What if my family is struggling to survive? What if there's no other heir? What if I have to marry into another Clan? Many ideas can come from this familial duty path
• A prophecy states that I will cause a disaster so my teachers are reluctant in teaching me more powerful techniques. I end up relegated to shrine keeping and maintaining the archives, etc.

[Suimaru 8]

Well, that gives me a few ideas to present to them. Thanks.

[Magnus Grendel 11,672]

25 minutes ago, Suimaru said:

Also, I have a player, whose character is a phoenix shugenja, their ninjo is wanting to become the elemental master of fire, they are having trouble coming up with a giri, however. What they have said is, they do want their giri to somewhat conflict with their goal.

Well, 'Giri' is your current duty. You don't have to be totally 180 opposite, as long as the two can compete in some way.

What's the campaign setting? Giri should logically link to that; your current sworn duty should be at least part of the basic reason why you're there.

5 minutes ago, broselovestar said:

Yeah they have not have any other title beside emerald magistrate. Seems like the next source book - Emerald Empire - will include a few though. I think for now just hold off on that first. Becoming an elemental master tend to take decades of training, unless you already start with a very experienced PC. My suggestion - depending on how your campaign goes - is to have them start with a smaller ninjo that works towards that bigger ninjo. For example:

• Become a Fire Elemental Guard
• ...
• Become the Fire Scion
• ...
• Become the Fire Elemental Master

Tbh, each of these step probably will take an intricate full-length campaign to resolve. You are free to skip or add more step in between of course.

Agreed, but nothing stops an unattainable (or nearly so, for a starting character) desire or duty. Each of those is a logical step towards it (and would count towards 'pursuing your ninjo). It is an obvious thing for a fire-aligned shujenga to 'want', and either the opportunities to gain lore, master Taryu-jiai or get the political connections with the current council would be a tempting thing that could conflict with their day job.

[Suimaru 8]

still working on the setting, I'll have them hold off on the Giri part for now.

[Magnus Grendel 11,672]

 

32 minutes ago, Suimaru said:

Well, yeah. The threat of death will be there, I just won't be going out of my way to kill them (unless they do something stupid) dying due to bad die rolls, is more of a downer, rather than losing because you messed up, as you learn from that.

A thought worth getting their head around - Rokugan being Rokugan, whilst 'getting them killed for kicks' is not on (unless they lose a fair fight which eventually someone will) but there will be occasional situations for the 'heroic sacrifice' - where essentially, someone getting themselves deliberately killed in an awesome way (either facing something terrifying or by seppuku) is part of the 'correct' way to resolve a problem. Don't keep overusing it but don't shy away from it either because it's a big part of the culture of the setting.

[broselovestar 25]

1 minute ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Agreed, but nothing stops an unattainable (or nearly so, for a starting character) desire or duty. Each of those is a logical step towards it (and would count towards 'pursuing your ninjo). It is an obvious thing for a fire-aligned shujenga to 'want', and either the opportunities to gain lore, master Taryu-jiai or get the political connections with the current council would be a tempting thing that could conflict with their day job.

Yes I agree. In fact I think it's good to have both a long term goal and more actionable short term goals. The long term goal makes your character "real". The shorter ones help you role play and make decision better.

[Suimaru 8]

5 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

 

A thought worth getting their head around - Rokugan being Rokugan, whilst 'getting them killed for kicks' is not on (unless they lose a fair fight which eventually someone will) but there will be occasional situations for the 'heroic sacrifice' - where essentially, someone getting themselves deliberately killed in an awesome way (either facing something terrifying or by seppuku) is part of the 'correct' way to resolve a problem. Don't keep overusing it but don't shy away from it either because it's a big part of the culture of the setting.

That'll probably end up being the Shugenja, that goes the way of heroic sacrifice, if they fall. Their answer to the question of how they would like their character to die was: protecting others.