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Wes Janson

Armada 2.0

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3 minutes ago, Cpt. Caine said:

Numbers on this exist on wookiepedia. The Imperial Neb-b's at the battle outnumbered the rebel ones just for an example. You can't really use the film as info om fleet compositions as Imperial doctrine and the EU explanation of ship combat in Star Wars wasn't really developed until after the original trilogy. 

For an explanation as to why the rebels won AFTER the second death Star was destroyed, read the Heir to the Empire trilogy. Thrawn explains to Palleon that it was due to the Emperor using battle mediation techniques to basically mind control the entire Imperial Navy, they had lost the willpower or mental energy to fight effectively at all because he had destroyed their own wills when he controlled them. Is it an apology that they had to make up to explain the unexplainable? Yes. But it is what we have.

 

Except that story no longer applies.

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1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:

Except that story no longer applies.

To any true Star Wars fan, it certainly does 😛

If you're suggesting Disney is/was legitimate in their dismissal of 95% of what Star Wars is (the Expanded Universe) I'm not sure there's much of an idea in debating. I'm sure we disagree whole-heartedly :)

In either case though, Star Wars has a pretty nonsensical canon on fleet combat in both the actual Star Wars and the thing Disney is running. Whether from a military perspective or a scientific perspective. So my point was mainly that trying to make sense of fleet numbers without introducing plot explanations that we just have to accept is not an endeavour likely to result in success.

 

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18 minutes ago, Cpt. Caine said:

Numbers on this exist on wookiepedia. The Imperial Neb-b's at the battle outnumbered the rebel ones just for an example. You can't really use the film as info om fleet compositions as Imperial doctrine and the EU explanation of ship combat in Star Wars wasn't really developed until after the original trilogy. 

For an explanation as to why the rebels won AFTER the second death Star was destroyed, read the Heir to the Empire trilogy. Thrawn explains to Palleon that it was due to the Emperor using battle mediation techniques to basically mind control the entire Imperial Navy, they had lost the willpower or mental energy to fight effectively at all because he had destroyed their own wills when he controlled them. Is it an apology that they had to make up to explain the unexplainable? Yes. But it is what we have.



What we have?  Not anymore.  All that EU garbage was tossed out when Disney took over, and the Wookeiepedia fleet compositions were exceptionally nebulous even back before it was all relegated to LEGENDS.  Zahn's non-sense Force-Zombies explanation wasn't even needed, sticking with film, because the Rebel fleet on film at Endor is clearly massive, so it wouldn't have required any mental hurdles to say that, without the DSII's superlaser (the integral part of Palpatine's trap), the Rebel Fleet had the upperhand on the garrison at Endor.

Nevertheless, what we have now is what is on film (and there sure aren't any Imperial Nebulons on film) and whatever appears in novels like Shattered Star or some of the new comics that touch a bit upon Endor, which is how we know for instance that the Green Group callsigns once assigned to Jake and Tycho are now actually assigned to Shara Bey and Lt. L'ulo, or how we know that Horton Salm's Gray 1 never entered the superstructure because that Y-Wing on film, it turns out, was Norra Wexley's Gold 9.  We also know, for instance, that Braylen Stramm and Blade Squadron's B-Wings destroyed the Devastator at Endor.  And none of these new Endor-enriching sources spat any nonsense about Imperial Nebulon-Bs or Force-Puppets.

 

Edited by AllWingsStandyingBy

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13 minutes ago, Cpt. Caine said:

If you're suggesting Disney is/was legitimate in their dismissal of 95% of what Star Wars is (the Expanded Universe).

The EU is NOT 95% of what Star Wars “is”.  A lot of the EU isn’t even 5% of what Star Wars is.

The essence of what Star Wars “is” is the 1977 film and Lucas’ exploration of mythology and the language of cinema.

The vast majority of the EU - and Disney’s newer lore for that matter - is simply fan fiction, and should be treated as such.  I don’t even know if you can argue that ESB is what Star Wars “is”.  It’s certainly an excellent Star Wars themed story, but that’s not the same thing.

Change of topic: I could definitely see FFG dropping Armada, and without much warning.  I’m not saying they will.

Change of topic: I don’t mind the idea of an Armada app, but I don’t want it to replace physical cards.  I don’t want digital-only content for my board/tabletop games.

Edited by Bakura83

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24 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:



What we have?  Not anymore.  All that EU garbage was tossed out when Disney took over, and the Wookeiepedia fleet compositions were exceptionally nebulous even back before it was all relegated to LEGENDS.  Zahn's non-sense Force-Zombies explanation wasn't even needed, sticking with film, because the Rebel fleet on film at Endor is clearly massive, so it wouldn't have required any mental hurdles to say that, without the DSII's superlaser (the integral part of Palpatine's trap), the Rebel Fleet had the upperhand on the garrison at Endor.

Nevertheless, what we have now is what is on film (and there sure aren't any Imperial Nebulons on film) and whatever appears in novels like Shattered Star or some of the new comics that touch a bit upon Endor, which is how we know for instance that the Green Group callsigns once assigned to Jake and Tycho are now actually assigned to Shara Bey and Lt. L'ulo, or how we know that Horton Salm's Gray 1 never entered the superstructure because that Y-Wing on film, it turns out, was Norra Wexley's Gold 9.  We also know, for instance, that Braylen Stramm and Blade Squadron's B-Wings destroyed the Devastator at Endor.  And none of these new Endor-enriching sources spat any nonsense about Imperial Nebulon-Bs or Force-Puppets.

 

You seem to misunderstand the Imperial forces didnt loose their free will according to Zhan they had become over reliant on the buff so the sudden lose of said buff was a large blow elevating small mistakes to large opportunities explored by Rebel forces.  Also unlike new Canon the Empire stays a threat in one way shape or form for nearly 30 years after ROTJ instead of 1 year or so which we had in new canon.

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1 hour ago, Bakura83 said:

Change of topic: I don’t mind the idea of an Armada app, but I don’t want it to replace physical cards.  I don’t want digital-only content for my board/tabletop games.

I just want them to be willing to errata costs on a card, as well as effects.  It seems that the only way for them to do that is an app though, so I want the app.

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While i think anything is possible in the business world, I can't see them dropping armada. The three main mechanics are covered, fleet combat, fighter combat, and now ground warfare. That would leave a fairly big hole. But that being said, 2.0 makes sense for power creep, as well as giving some space in future ship development.

The ssd, while lots o folks wanted it, I think was a mistake before fixing some of the frustrations for players. Adjustable costs would have allowed for current fleet creation ease. Then, a release of faction based essential sets would revamp their player base with a lower cost to entry, and get more butts in the seats. THEN, introducing a $200 ship everyone wants would have hit a larger market. Just my 2 pesos...

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55 minutes ago, moodswing5537 said:

The ssd, while lots o folks wanted it, I think was a mistake before fixing some of the frustrations for players. Adjustable costs would have allowed for current fleet creation ease. Then, a release of faction based essential sets would revamp their player base with a lower cost to entry, and get more butts in the seats. THEN, introducing a $200 ship everyone wants would have hit a larger market. Just my 2 pesos...

I always imagined SSD 1.5x or 2x times bigger than ISD at a price of $100.

One probable strategy of SSD and it massive size and price would be to sell this ship to non-players as well. 

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23 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

That's...  a little rude. :(

 

I do feel the same way.  I can't afford to have data on my phone, and thus, do things "online" when I'm out gaming.  Without Wifi, I might as well be amish...  Through no fault of my own, I am a luddite, and considering it cost me $85 to get replacement printer cartridges, even printing a master PDF is out of the issue...  Browsing on a Phone, its a solid compromise, but it has to be offline.

Besides, I have plenty of time while not playing to work lists by hand...  I have a lot of my core archtype points memorised by now anyway.

The correct question would be to ask if he’s a Luddite anyway. 

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41 minutes ago, LostFleet said:

One probable strategy of SSD and it massive size and price would be to sell this ship to non-players as well. 

doubt many will. I'm sure there will be a handful but not enough to justify the development of the item. I'm honestly worried that they won't sell enough to us, the armada community, alone to justify the cost which is just going to even further push that negative feedback loop they have going. 

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On 11/26/2018 at 7:36 PM, dominosfleet said:

I just assumed it would always have an offline option. obviously you'd need to update every so often but ya, saying "no app ever" because you don't want to use a computer seems a bit extreme. /shrug, I'd also argue that A LOT of people quit x-wing 2.0 for A LOT of reasons beyond the "THEY'RE USING THE INTERNETS!" argument. I think the cost of those box sets was one of the craziest aspects, i was looking at nearly 300 to update my fights to the current system and that wasn't going to happen for a game that I hadn't played in nearly 2 years anyway (not like i was the target audience). 

I don’t think it’s “extreme” to not want a computer to be a REQUIRED component of a board/tabletop game.

Unlike Drasnighta I CAN afford pretty much any level of technological buy in, but sometimes it’s nice to just not have tech.  I just had this fight with my interior designer who was indignant when I said I didn’t want to pay extra for a Bluetooth oven.  I can walk into a room and turn a nob just fine.  I can also flip a switch on a light without dropping £100-300 on an Alexa and voice-controlled WiFi light bulbs.

I’m not a Luddite, I have an IPhone and inlimited data, but if Armada has been app only I would have passed.  If Imp *** had been app only I would have passed.  As soon as x-Wing became app-necessary I bailed.

If I’m buying a boardgame or a miniatures game, I want it to be playable with nothing more high tech than a candle, and to have physical components I can store in a box.

I get tired of looking at screens.

Edited by Bakura83

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4 hours ago, Do I need a Username said:

I just want them to be willing to errata costs on a card, as well as effects.  It seems that the only way for them to do that is an app though, so I want the app.

I’d rather buy a second edition of physical cards than use an app, as long as they also made the cards available as pdfs.  I bought at least 5 generations of GW rule books and codexes, a £20-50 card update every 5 years isn’t bad at all.

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37 minutes ago, Bakura83 said:

I’d rather buy a second edition of physical cards than use an app, as long as they also made the cards available as pdfs.  I bought at least 5 generations of GW rule books and codexes, a £20-50 card update every 5 years isn’t bad at all.

Played plenty of 40k myself, I would have LOVED an app that worked when i did. I even built an excel sheet for each faction that i could use as a builder and handed them out to friends for their associated army. I still bought the codices(owned them all from 3rd through 6th, quit with 7th because a 1 year edition was BS), but it's a supplement that helps dramatically with gameplay.

 

1 hour ago, Bakura83 said:

I don’t think it’s “extreme” to not want a computer to be a REQUIRED component of a board/tabletop game.

Unlike Drasnighta I CAN afford pretty much any level of technological buy in, but sometimes it’s nice to just not have tech.  I just had this fight with my interior designer who was indignant when I said I didn’t want to pay extra for a Bluetooth oven.  I can walk into a room and turn a nob just fine.  I can also flip a switch on a light without dropping £100-300 on an Alexa and voice-controlled WiFi light bulbs.

I’m not a Luddite, I have an IPhone and inlimited data, but if Armada has been app only I would have passed.  If Imp *** had been app only I would have passed.  As soon as x-Wing became app-necessary I bailed.

If I’m buying a boardgame or a miniatures game, I want it to be playable with nothing more high tech than a candle, and to have physical components I can store in a box.

I get tired of looking at screens.

Grats on your ability to afford things. I'm pretty sure the item I'm talking about is optional similar to the X-wing app and there exclusively for convenience. you're welcome to  write your lists by candle light, I'm going to do so in an app. Right now I use the Armada fleet designer because it's well done, I'd like FFG to make one on par with that. I don't expect you'll have to print anything more for that than you do currently for FAQ's, unless you don't play with FAQ's in which case you should try out a 9 flotilla, cymoon list with thrawn because I've been wanting to but don't feel like investing in 9 flotillas. (Que "Choose the form of your destroyer" meme with the cracken picture.) 

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I think it would be fun to try to organize a massive, Apocalypse style engagement sometime at one of the events next year. I mean, after all... how better to show case the fact there isn't an upper point limit in the rule book?

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39 minutes ago, dominosfleet said:

Grats on your ability to afford things. I'm pretty sure the item I'm talking about is optional similar to the X-wing app and there exclusively for convenience. you're welcome to  write your lists by candle light, I'm going to do so in an app. Right now I use the Armada fleet designer because it's well done, I'd like FFG to make one on par with that. I don't expect you'll have to print anything more for that than you do currently for FAQ's, unless you don't play with FAQ's in which case you should try out a 9 flotilla, cymoon list with thrawn because I've been wanting to but don't feel like investing in 9 flotillas. (Que "Choose the form of your destroyer" meme with the cracken picture.) 

I was not aware that the app was optional for 2.0, I thought it was the only way to play without using “fast build” pre-made options.

I don’t print out FAQs, or use them much.  We’ve never needed them in my group, because no one power games.  

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1 minute ago, Bakura83 said:

I was not aware that the app was optional for 2.0, I thought it was the only way to play without using “fast build” pre-made options.

I don’t print out FAQs, or use them much.  We’ve never needed them in my group, because no one power games.  

Yep, any point updates are written out in a FAQ like doc.

FAQ's are there to fix imbalances in the game. Doesn't really have anything to do with power gaming, it's about balancing the game as new items come out. (I.E. there isn't a flotilla problem until flotillas are introduced into the game).  

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20 minutes ago, Bakura83 said:

I was not aware that the app was optional for 2.0, I thought it was the only way to play without using “fast build” pre-made options.

I don’t print out FAQs, or use them much.  We’ve never needed them in my group, because no one power games.  

FAQs aren't for power gaming. Most of them just explain how cards or rules work, often in non-obvious ways.

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A couple things

as an x wing player, I’ve found that the app has helped, even if it is a bit rediculous that it’s the only place to find card point costs

second, I do wish they would make it offline. The only time it needs to update is with new releases and the occasional nerfing or buffing of cards.

third, if I were wanting to get into armada, should I go ahead or wait to see if they’ll drop/reboot it?

thanks

Edited by Kelsier16
Mystyped a word

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