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Wes Janson

Armada 2.0

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I am starting to get that feeling that FFG will push out the SSD kit as the final V1 release and then re-launch Armada with an eye towards adding the Clone Wars. Seems the delay in releases could be attached to a big shift in their future plans for the game. I don't think however that you will see the game be dropped as some fear, although it is possible. New core set containing Clone Wars ships is my bet.

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1 hour ago, XR8rGREAT said:

The reason X-wing needed 2.0 was because of the fact most ships in the game never saw play so a re balance was needed. Armada doesn't need it. Aside from the moans about the Vic occasionally most people seem happy to field any ship in casual or at an event.

I feel like the wave 5 ships could be cheaper. 

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1 hour ago, Wes Janson said:

 Seems the delay in releases..

Has there been a notable delay in releases? Sure they've dropped down to one release cycle a year, but that coincided with Legion and then a huge chunk of new X-Wing stuff coming out. Plus possibly an internal order that they had to get the SSD done before anything else, given the costs they'd sunk into it.

I wouldn't be surprised if we get a proper Wave 8 announced shortly after the SSD release. Obviously they're not going to want to announce it before or with it, but they've probably got something in the works.

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44 minutes ago, XR8rGREAT said:

The reason X-wing needed 2.0 was because of the fact most ships in the game never saw play so a re balance was needed. Armada doesn't need it. Aside from the moans about the Vic occasionally most people seem happy to field any ship in casual or at an event.

I agree with this, some ships will always be stronger or more popular than others but every ship can be played competitively with Armada which is flat out fantastic.  We don't need a 2.0 but Clone Wars and/or a rethink of the Core set would be welcome.  Ideally finding a way to bring down the cost of the core with either an "Essentials Pack" or Single faction cores to cut the cost down.

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The release cycle feels like its slowed, but has it?

I started in the January after Wave-2 dropped in November.

Wave 3/4:  August, announced as two separate waves and probably intended to drop at the same time, but the announcements split them because they feared production wouldn't be in time.   So 10 months.

Wave 5:  December:  4 months.

Wave 6:  July:  6 months

Wave 7:  February:  8 months

Wave 8:  SSD:  Estimated for early next year, I was guessing February when they announced it, but it could be April if it still hasn't moved to the Printer.

 

So they were running around 6-7 months up to this point.  I'm sure the SSD was quite the work on design and production, so maybe a delay can be expected there.

 

I'm not sure Armada needs a 2.0, but if they released another Correlian Conflict style campaign and simply included some new copies of cards, it would represent that 1.5 mentioned above.

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3 hours ago, XR8rGREAT said:

The reason X-wing needed 2.0 was because of the fact most ships in the game never saw play so a re balance was needed. Armada doesn't need it. Aside from the moans about the Vic occasionally most people seem happy to field any ship in casual or at an event.

Even for X-wing 2.0 I can't say that people are happy to field any ship at an event. There have been a usual few overused fighters in every tourney data😂

Edited by Muelmuel

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2 hours ago, Grumbleduke said:

Has there been a notable delay in releases? Sure they've dropped down to one release cycle a year, but that coincided with Legion and then a huge chunk of new X-Wing stuff coming out. Plus possibly an internal order that they had to get the SSD done before anything else, given the costs they'd sunk into it.

I wouldn't be surprised if we get a proper Wave 8 announced shortly after the SSD release. Obviously they're not going to want to announce it before or with it, but they've probably got something in the works.

I won't quote anything, but I can believe this with confidence 😉

Edited by Muelmuel

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3 hours ago, Grumbleduke said:

Has there been a notable delay in releases? Sure they've dropped down to one release cycle a year, but that coincided with Legion and then a huge chunk of new X-Wing stuff coming out. Plus possibly an internal order that they had to get the SSD done before anything else, given the costs they'd sunk into it.

I wouldn't be surprised if we get a proper Wave 8 announced shortly after the SSD release. Obviously they're not going to want to announce it before or with it, but they've probably got something in the works.

Yeah, there had been a notable delay.

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6 hours ago, Wes Janson said:

I am starting to get that feeling that FFG will push out the SSD kit as the final V1 release and then re-launch Armada with an eye towards adding the Clone Wars. Seems the delay in releases could be attached to a big shift in their future plans for the game. I don't think however that you will see the game be dropped as some fear, although it is possible. New core set containing Clone Wars ships is my bet.

I strongly agree, either its over after the SSD or its a new core set from CW era if they really got this license for all their SW minis. As the wink wink comment during the presentation when Crabbok (?) asked why Armada has no CW reveal suggests.

I dont believe the step-back-a-while-for-xwing-Legion-keyforge-Lot5R-whatever explanations, after which Armada progresses „as normal“. 

Even if the game is balanced (it is), its still in danger of getting shale (not everyone has the time luxury to explore ALL the combinations...and lets face it, there are not that many competitive archetypes that you havent played by now, or want to).

Undeniably the best game out there 🙂, so no bitterness. Just a -subjectively- realistic view on things.

 

The good thing is, I can be proven wrong any day, including today, by a new article on GCW era expansions.

However, just new cardboard for variation / diversification would be enough for me to boost the game to new levels. No superfluous plastic wrapping needed.

 

 

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Reflecting others comments the most Armada needs is a version 1.5.  A (decent) website/app for list building where prices can be altered like X-Wing would be more than sufficient going forward.  Maybe revise expansions to include errata on cards.  No need for the second edition palaver.  The core mechanics of this game are sound.  Points on the cards could still be used for casual play.

7 hours ago, Muelmuel said:

Even for X-wing 2.0 I can't say that people are happy to field any ship at an event. There have been a usual few overused fighters in every tourney data😂

The impact on casual play is much more significant.  I have found casual thematic lists are now viable.  And while tournament players seem to have settled on narrow selection of what they deem to be the powerhouses it’s still early days... we have yet to receive a points balance patch for X-Wing 2.0.

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If 2e fixes activation mechanics to remove the emphasis on last-first activation in all forms of play, then yes, bring on the 2nd edition of Armada. 

 

If it doesnt, then don’t bother. If you can ignore (or somehow like) the emphasis on last-firsting in the last wave and the way that activation mechanics promote it, then Armada is in a really good spot and doesn’t NEED major changes. 

Edited by Church14

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30 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

"The last ship to activate cannot be the first ship to activate the following round."

I would be willing to playtest this change. Could be it has wide-reaching consequences, but it's worth exploring IMO.

We talked locally a bit about activation order forced around Command Value. We weren’t sure on all details and what it would do to balance, but basically, your lowest Command value ships would have to activate first. 

Kind of:

-Command 1 ships activate: use usual activation order stuff to select which command 1 ships. No command 2+ activate during this phase.

-Command 2 ships activate

-Command 3 ships activate

-Command 4 ships activate

we also toyed with swapping it so highest command value goes first. We weren’t sure what would balance better. We would need to test a change this dramatic quite a bit before we say it is the right answer

 

A simple, “the last ship on each side to activate cannot be their first activation” might work better. Though it does nothing if you are outactivated by 2 activations or more.

 

Whatever the change is, I would want it to encourage 3-4 activation lists while not totally alienating 5+. 2 activation lists (outside of SSD) would be fun to make viable, but I can live with that no longer being an option

Edited by Church14

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22 minutes ago, Church14 said:

We talked locally a bit about activation order forced around Command Value. We weren’t sure on all details and what it would do to balance, but basically, your lowest Command value ships would have to activate first. 

Kind of:

-Command 1 ships activate: use usual activation order stuff to select which command 1 ships. No command 2+ activate during this phase.

-Command 2 ships activate

-Command 3 ships activate

-Command 4 ships activate

we also toyed with swapping it so highest command value goes first. We weren’t sure what would balance better. We would need to test a change this dramatic quite a bit before we say it is the right answer

 

A simple, “the last ship on each side to activate cannot be their first activation” might work better. Though it does nothing if you are outactivated by 2 activations or more.

 

Whatever the change is, I would want it to encourage 3-4 activation lists while not totally alienating 5+. 2 activation lists (outside of SSD) would be fun to make viable, but I can live with that no longer being an option

It nefs Bail/Pryce.

But yeah, with enough activations you can go pseudo-last/first, so it's not magic.

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10 hours ago, Muelmuel said:

Even for X-wing 2.0 I can't say that people are happy to field any ship at an event. There have been a usual few overused fighters in every tourney data😂

but, their new system is flexible enough so they can correct by buffing or nerfing a ship through the App. Armada has always needed that, like most games do. The imbalances are not as bad as in X-Wing, but we've received a lot of "bandage" balancing which is honestly not the best design ever.

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X-wing 2.0 is balanced enough that I could go 5-1 with a couple of X-wings and an ARC at Nordics.

But yeah, I'm starting to see some stuff crop up more often; on the other hand I see different builds all the time.

Edited by Green Knight

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I think X-Wing 2.0 needs a 3.0 already.   The whole "Front Arc Symbol" has 3 different meanings depending on the context of where it's being used....  just annoys the crap out of me.  

 

Armada is in a much better place than X-Wing has ever been IMO, in terms of design.   And while it COULD probably benefit from a few things, I think it's premature to call in a 2.0.   

 

Now that we have that out of the way... would anyone like to buy some deathsticks?

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27 minutes ago, Crabbok said:

I think X-Wing 2.0 needs a 3.0 already.   The whole "Front Arc Symbol" has 3 different meanings depending on the context of where it's being used....  just annoys the crap out of me.  

Speaking of that front arc - how can the game have a 2nd edition already, when "Switch your deflectors on double-front"...one of the very first lines uttered in the very first major space battle of the entire series of movies...is still not a thing you can do?!  The mind reels...

Quote

Armada is in a much better place than X-Wing has ever been IMO, in terms of design.   And while it COULD probably benefit from a few things, I think it's premature to call in a 2.0.   

After that last FAQing that toned down the dominance of flotillas, really the only thing the game still needs is some tweak to activations to balance 2-ship vs 5-ship MSU lists a bit closer.  That last-first thing where a ship can start outside your range on one side of your ship, fly in, shoot you, and zip right off the other side without you having a chance to react at all feels...unthematic, if nothing else.

(I mean, heckery, it could well be solvable with nothing more than an 'opportunity fire' rule that almost every other wargame has - let a ship only attack once a turn instead of twice, triggering that shot on...whatever.  Something related to the otherwise-going-to-be-missed opportunity to fire at all.  However that works decided based on balance testing.)

 

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Wave 8 has already been (unofficially) confirmed by the guys from The Outer Rim who're personal friends with FFG employees. As of last week it is in playtesting. I've been wondering why no one else seem to have picked those news up in the Armada community.

They also said 2.0 is not definitely not happening after the SSD og prior to wave 8. Without saying what would happen after that.

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