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Firebird TMK

Rebel Players: Is It Worth Continuing to Play until January?

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I've been playing Rebels since the early days of 1.0.  Never been the best player, but I've had fun.  Even in later 1.0 with all the abusive builds around.

FFG sold 2.0 as the solution for the problems of 1.0.  More balance, they said.  Fewer abusive combos, they said.  Less token stacking, dice modifications and other shenanigans, they said.  So I bought into it.  And I've tried to play in that spirit.  Minimum upgrades.  Emphasis on maneuvering.  Etc.

I believe FFG has not delivered what it promised.  Abusive combos, token stacking and excessive dice modification are still prevalent.  And factions are WAY out of balance.  Result: almost every game I've played has been a negative play experience.  Even when I've ended up winning.

I've considered looking for, or trying to come up with, the most abusive, WAAC Rebel list I could find.  One highly likely to produce NPEs.   But I don't want to play that way.  Didn't play that way in 1.0 either.

So, Rebel players, is it worth continuing to play before the upcoming "rebalance"? 

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Well I can see 1 of 2 options depending on how Wave 2 does.

  1. Resistance because of the lack of ship variety is played less than rebels.
  2. Many rebel players move over to Resistance because they have better lists.

So if Resistance sucks people will still play Rebels because they like the aesthetic of that faction. However many rebel players have the 3 ships from Resistance so if the A-wings round up the other 3 ships of the faction and there is a good list to be made out of SF-100s, T-70s, RZ-2 and the Resistance pilots for the Falcon then many rebel players will just jump over because they already have the ships and they might be easier to get than say a wave 5 ship.

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24 minutes ago, Firebird TMK said:

Abusive combos, token stacking and excessive dice modification are still prevalent.

You’re right, FFG should stop players from finding and gravitating towards the best and most “broken” lists...

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28 minutes ago, Firebird TMK said:

I've been playing Rebels since the early days of 1.0.  Never been the best player, but I've had fun.  Even in later 1.0 with all the abusive builds around.

FFG sold 2.0 as the solution for the problems of 1.0.  More balance, they said.  Fewer abusive combos, they said.  Less token stacking, dice modifications and other shenanigans, they said.  So I bought into it.  And I've tried to play in that spirit.  Minimum upgrades.  Emphasis on maneuvering.  Etc.

I believe FFG has not delivered what it promised.  Abusive combos, token stacking and excessive dice modification are still prevalent.  And factions are WAY out of balance.  Result: almost every game I've played has been a negative play experience.  Even when I've ended up winning.

I've considered looking for, or trying to come up with, the most abusive, WAAC Rebel list I could find.  One highly likely to produce NPEs.   But I don't want to play that way.  Didn't play that way in 1.0 either.

So, Rebel players, is it worth continuing to play before the upcoming "rebalance"? 

what exactly are you finding to be a negative play experience for you?

 

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15 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

You’re right, FFG should stop players from finding and gravitating towards the best and most “broken” lists...

They should be on the lookout for potential abusive combinations and either not let them be in the game or price them in such a way sacrifices must be made.

There will always be top contenders, but the goal is to regulate power levels such that they don't overheat and shut out a significant portion of the game.

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2 minutes ago, Octarine-08 said:

They should be on the lookout for potential abusive combinations and either not let them be in the game or price them in such a way sacrifices must be made.

There will always be top contenders, but the goal is to regulate power levels such that they don't overheat and shut out a significant portion of the game.

Yes, which is what should happen come January. In the mean time, though, while some things are definitively better than others... everything is definitively more balanced than it used to be.

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41 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Well I can see 1 of 2 options depending on how Wave 2 does.

  1. Resistance because of the lack of ship variety is played less than rebels.
  2. Many rebel players move over to Resistance because they have better lists.

So if Resistance sucks people will still play Rebels because they like the aesthetic of that faction. However many rebel players have the 3 ships from Resistance so if the A-wings round up the other 3 ships of the faction and there is a good list to be made out of SF-100s, T-70s, RZ-2 and the Resistance pilots for the Falcon then many rebel players will just jump over because they already have the ships and they might be easier to get than say a wave 5 ship.

I think The Resistance is going to play VERY differently from The Rebellion.

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I will continue playing Rebels regardless. I don't travel the world attending all the top tourneys, so I've been winning my fair share of games here at home.

I won't argue that Rebels are in a tougher spot than the other factions. But to just stop playing them because they're not the dominant faction? 

Rebels still feel like a puzzle that is missing a piece. But triple ProTorp Alpha at high Initiative is working. Rebel Regen is still around. Damage sharing can be effective.

Besides, somebody has to be the underdog...Rebels make sense! Kidding...but in truth, even a point rebalance is scary. Rebels could easily be dominant if everyone can easily add a fourth ship without much thought.

Edited by SCSkunk
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Well. My Imperials and I have lost games to Rebels. Does this make me a terrible player?

No wait. I used Rebels for a store tourney and won 2 of my 3 games, both against Imperials.

Now I'm just confused.

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I’m enjoying 2.0 with my Scum and Rebels so far.  Haven’t taken the Empire out for a spin yet, but I have been up against a Redline list so far.  Even took Redine out with an Arc-170 (Shara Bey), after Kulbee and Jek softened him up.  For those wondering, Shara had Magva Yarro, and focused the turn she ate a 4-die Proton Torpedo from Redline...  she then got to swing with a 4-die + her ability and did 5 damage back with her own Proton Torp.

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57 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

Well. My Imperials and I have lost games to Rebels. Does this make me a terrible player?

No wait. I used Rebels for a store tourney and won 2 of my 3 games, both against Imperials.

Now I'm just confused.

I have not lost a game flying rebeles.... but i play all factions.

They do not really feel like a weaker faction to me, however they do feel the most different then how they feel in first edition.

I think there is a bit more adjustment going to second edition for rebel only or (rebel heavy) players, I have noticed it locally the few top end mostly rebel players really struggled at first but are now starting to bank up wins again.

 

 

Edited by Icelom

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1 hour ago, Captain Lackwit said:

I think The Resistance is going to play VERY differently from The Rebellion.

Likely, the Rebels have so many different options there isn't that many playstyles that can't be incorporated in a rebel list.

But this wasn't about how similar the Resistance and Rebel factions are but if the Resistance faction can make a list that tops the Scum and Imperial lists we see in tournaments now. If some one finds a list that destroys Redline and can eat HWKs and Quadjumpers then you will see a lot of Rebel players going to Resistance because they already have many of the models and will grab a conversion kit and a couple of A-wing-2s. Sure you may have a couple of diehard Rebel devotes, but those won't be the ones interested in winning the tournaments.

This is all under assumption that Resistance can even put together a tournament winning list. If the Resistance has the same luck as the Rebels have now (which is none) then you will see Resistance less than a 1st edition Galactic Republic list.

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I guess I just fundamentally disagree with the premise of this post- this is a game that we play for fun. There’s a lot of fun rebel ships and combinations to explore, even if their top tier most efficient options are lagging behind the same in other factions. Is that enough to make a game truly unfun to play? The game has opened up quite a bit when it comes to fielding viable options. Maybe I’m just lucky enough to have a ‘fly-casual’ group of fun people to play with who don’t netlist and just bring whatever they feel like. If you’re not having fun, don’t play- but I would question whether you are taking a too narrow view of what a fun play experience can be. Conditions will never be that perfect ideal of balance across a game with this much content and if that’s a prerequisite for fun then that’s a recipe for discontent. There are also other play modes to enjoy- people have adapted HOTAC and plenty are playing No Glory format. 

TLDR: Games are meant to be fun. When we get too serious about games and competition fun stops being fun and really what are we doing at that point.

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At Nordics (Nationals), my only major tourney to date, Empire was overrepresented (lots of bombers and punishers, Vader and Fel), but statistically underrepresented in the top 16 cut.

Yet they had 3 of 4 on top 4. But the winner was rebel 4-ship.

Statistics are weird 😀

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2 hours ago, SCSkunk said:

 

Rebels still feel like a puzzle that is missing a piece. But triple ProTorp Alpha at high Initiative is working. Rebel Regen is still around. Damage sharing can be effective.

 

Selfless is the secret sauce of Rebels. 

...Which means we're back to Biggs. 

I've been trying every angle since the start, and that's where I've landed. 

I have to say, squad-building around Selfless and Biggs is actually super fun, since it actually works. 

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