Jump to content
mazz0

Actis Speculation Thread

Recommended Posts

OK, I'm sure there are plenty, but they're not on the main page, and the recent info we've seen regarding the Aethersprite has got me wondering.

With the Aethersprite looking like such an all-round heap of awesomeness, what can they do with the Actis?  Less health, presumably, but harder to hit.  Four green dice natively?  An extra mod slot?  Linked actions off evade?  A ship-ability granting a free evade, or even something like reinforce?  A new action icon that's actually two of an existing one, like double-evade?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Different ship ability and purple action(s), will likely be the main differentiations.

Tech doesn’t make much sense, as the Actis is like 40 years old by the time that tech is invented. Systems slot could happen, but I wouldn’t count on such a nimble fighter being weighed down by extra computing power or anything.

Double mods is possible, but for all we know the Delta 7 already has that. Mace in the quick-build card appears to be using 3 mod slots, and while those are known for adding slots, I don’t think they’ve ever added 2 of the same slot on top of having that slot naturally.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3/3/3/0 statline I reckon.

Very similar, but one less HP will make a big difference. I'm pretty sure the Legends version didn't have shields, and I've seen no mention of them in canon material. Fits with how easily Anakin shreds Obi-Wan in RotS, though I suppose you could always argue he was just close enough to be under the shields.

Maybe they'll only give it 2 attack but also give it a cannon slot? I think they were supposed to have ion cannons, but again I don't know if that's carried over to canon. Anakin apparently swapped his for more lasers, but you could always represent that with HLC, I guess. Or Autoblasters if we get them back. 

Personally, I'd love it if they gave it something similar to the TIE Advanced - 2 attack dice, but 3 if you have a lock on them. It would be cool thematically as Anakin's 'signature ships' both performing similarly, though I'm sure there'd be plenty of salt about the low initiative pilots. Maybe make the trigger spending a Force token instead? 

I dunno. I just feel like there's more design space to be played with than yet another 3 attack primary. 

It's also hard to say without knowing exactly how those purple actions work. If they are, as I suspect, actions that require a Force token to be spent before they can be performed then maybe giving the Eta-2 a white evade action would be enough to represent it's greater agility over the Delta-7? Though I'm still really wary about how hard to kill a 3 green ship with an evade token and 2-3 Force tokens would be. All sorts of stuff they could do, though. Focus into purple evade? An ability that lets you spend a Force token to use the 2 speed templates when barrel rolling or boosting? Spend a Force token to rotate 90 degrees after a maneuver? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, GuacCousteau said:

3/3/3/0 statline I reckon.

I dunno. I just feel like there's more design space to be played with than yet another 3 attack primary. 

It's also hard to say without knowing exactly how those purple actions work. If they are, as I suspect, actions that require a Force token to be spent before they can be performed then maybe giving the Eta-2 a white evade action would be enough to represent it's greater agility over the Delta-7? Though I'm still really wary about how hard to kill a 3 green ship with an evade token and 2-3 Force tokens would be. All sorts of stuff they could do, though. Focus into purple evade? An ability that lets you spend a Force token to use the 2 speed templates when barrel rolling or boosting? Spend a Force token to rotate 90 degrees after a maneuver? 

I think something like this would be fun, except I may give it 1 more Hull so 3/3/4/0. Then have Focus (+ purple evade) linked action, Lock, Barrell Roll. They could look very similar to the Fang Fighters except with the ability to add astromechs (possibly?) or would that be to overpowered. I'm not sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They'll definitely have Astromech slots - we haven't seen any ships that have Astromech slots in universe that don't have them in the game have we (not including obscure variants)?

Yeah, I like @GuacCousteau's ideas there too, although I'd rather they have 3 attack than 2 attack and a cannon.  The latter just doesn't feel right to me - it's not a crazy heavy hitting monster like a cannon would make it feel, but it's not some weedy filler ship like 2 attack would make it feel.  Is the co-opordinated laser thing Aethersprite only?  I'd be happy with it following the Aetherpsrite and TIE Advanced approach of native two attack but a way (or two) of making it hit harder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, mazz0 said:

although I'd rather they have 3 attack than 2 attack and a cannon.  The latter just doesn't feel right to me - it's not a crazy heavy hitting monster like a cannon would make it feel, but it's not some weedy filler ship like 2 attack would make it feel.

I agree. 

Last thing the Republic needs is another 2 attack 3 agility small base ship as well. 

It's just interesting that, at the moment, I believe the Republic lack a cannon carrier. I also think that the cannon slot, with the current available upgrades at least, is better suited to 2 attack dice ships because it's just not worth 3 attack ships sacrificing their primary for one. 

No reason you can't combine all the ideas, of course.

Either a 3/3/3 statline that comes with a configuration that drops an attack, drops the points value and adds a cannon slot; or a 2/3/3 statline with the cannon slot and a config that also takes up a cannon slot (like the one Delta-7 config takes up a mod slot) and adds an attack die for a suitable number of points. 

The more ship customisation the better. I don't care if the 3 attack version is drastically better, I just like the idea of building the same ship two very different ways if you want to. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

I agree. 

Last thing the Republic needs is another 2 attack 3 agility small base ship as well. 

It's just interesting that, at the moment, I believe the Republic lack a cannon carrier. I also think that the cannon slot, with the current available upgrades at least, is better suited to 2 attack dice ships because it's just not worth 3 attack ships sacrificing their primary for one. 

No reason you can't combine all the ideas, of course.

Either a 3/3/3 statline that comes with a configuration that drops an attack, drops the points value and adds a cannon slot; or a 2/3/3 statline with the cannon slot and a config that also takes up a cannon slot (like the one Delta-7 config takes up a mod slot) and adds an attack die for a suitable number of points. 

The more ship customisation the better. I don't care if the 3 attack version is drastically better, I just like the idea of building the same ship two very different ways if you want to. 

Amazing.  Everything you just said is... right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My answer from the previous thread:

On 11/11/2018 at 11:28 AM, GeneralVryth said:

With that in mind I would start with setup like the TIE Interceptor or Fang Fighter (both of which fly how we would expect the Eta-2 to fly).

Attack 3, Agility 3 (maybe 4? if anything was going to be a 4 Agility this would be it), Hull 3, Shields 0

Upgrade Slots: Cannon, Astromech (The Aethersprite clearly is going to have an astromech slot and it would make sense for the Eta-2 as well), Modification, and Force Talent (where appropriate).

Dial: Interceptor/Fang Fighter in style

Ship Ability: Nothing if the ship has Agility 4, otherwise something to help defensively. Maybe a free evade action or the option to once per turn spend a Force token like an evade. (I don't think it will be a Force based re-position because the Aethersprite already has that. This ship is probably going to be the Jedi version of Fang Fighter instead of a TIE Advance v1 or X-wing)

Action Bar: Focus, Evade, Barrel Roll, Boost, Target Lock (this is a maybe). Assuming Purple is good and is what I think which is you can perform the action as free action during the perform action step at the cost of a Force token, I could see Evade and maybe even Barrel and Boost being purple depending on the ship ability.

My 2 cents anyways, and how I would build the ship. 

My opinion hasn't changed much since. The configuration option for 2 or 3 attack based off the cannon slot is an interesting idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Hawkstrike said:

How about 3/4/3/0, but no evade action?

Unless the people who think purple means you have to spend a force token to do it are right, in which case purple evade is OK?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

🤨 With Focus and Force backing those 4 greens (5 at range 3)? I hope not.

Anyone who has played Soontir enough, knows eventually you roll blanks on those dice, and with 3 Hull you die. If any ship is going to get 4 Agi it's going to be the Actis.

50 minutes ago, mazz0 said:

Unless the people who think purple means you have to spend a force token to do it are right, in which case purple evade is OK?

I think it would be fine even as a white Evade, eventually you are going to roll badly, and the ship is meant to be a high performance Jedi fighter (and is likely to have a cost like it as well). And if the purple action is a negative (which I highly doubt), it could be a decent middle ground.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

and eventually you have a long chain of 3-4 eyeballs and evades... Not a very good argument in favor of the Actis having 4 agility.

Then why isn't Soontir with a stealth device burning up the meta? 3 attack dice against 4 defense, with neither side having mods is still going to do damage on average 35% of the time. Damage in this case meaning losing at a minimum 1/3 of your health. Giving the attack focus and defender evade and 1 force, your still getting damage through 10% of the time on average. I am not saying it won't be hard to kill, but it's not going to be much harder than a number of other things (Defenders come to mind, so do close range Fangs). it just needs to be costed appropriately for the effect.

As I said during my initial guess of how you could build the Actis there are a few ways you could approach it. I just think it's highly likely to have 4 Agi or a defensive ability of some sort, the net effect on tankiness not being much different.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, GeneralVryth said:

Then why isn't Soontir with a stealth device burning up the meta? 3 attack dice against 4 defense, with neither side having mods is still going to do damage on average 35% of the time. Damage in this case meaning losing at a minimum 1/3 of your health. Giving the attack focus and defender evade and 1 force, your still getting damage through 10% of the time on average. I am not saying it won't be hard to kill, but it's not going to be much harder than a number of other things (Defenders come to mind, so do close range Fangs). it just needs to be costed appropriately for the effect.

As I said during my initial guess of how you could build the Actis there are a few ways you could approach it. I just think it's highly likely to have 4 Agi or a defensive ability of some sort, the net effect on tankiness not being much different.

Ooh, 4-green Actis with Stealth Device...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, GeneralVryth said:

Then why isn't Soontir with a stealth device burning up the meta?

Because Stealth Device is gone after you take a hit. And because it costs points that can be spent on something else. 

A 4 agility ship would keep those dice no matter how damaged it was. Do you not see how that would be a problem? Even with only 3 agility, it's most common for Interceptors (Fel especially, with his ready access to tokens) to only take damage 1 at a time. 

Stealth Device on Fel is really, really good if it holds up to that first shot. It's only not taken because the off chance that it doesn't protect you even once means the points weren't worth the investment. Stealth Device absolutely makes Fel last longer and take less damage, it's just not taken because spending points on variance is never wise. 

There's no variance with a 4 agility ship. There's no decision to make regarding where to spend your upgrade points. Yes, even 4 dice can roll badly and you might still take a damage with the first shot of the game. 

But then it doesn't go. You still get 4 green dice. For the rest of the game. The first roll could have been total bad luck, and then those four dice could deliver on their expected averages the rest of the game. The average roll on 4 green dice is a bit under 2 evades, an eye and a blank. Call the one die Schroedinger's die - it could be anything, but it's most likely to be an evade.  With an evade token and a Force token, your average would be so close to 4 evade results for every defence roll you make. That's still applying even when you're down to 1 HP.

The difference is huge. If Stealth Device was a permanent effect, or even if there were some way to regain that charge, it would be absolutely bolted to Soontir Fel and he'd be harder to kill than he ever was in 1e. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, GuacCousteau said:

Because Stealth Device is gone after you take a hit. And because it costs points that can be spent on something else. 

A 4 agility ship would keep those dice no matter how damaged it was. Do you not see how that would be a problem? Even with only 3 agility, it's most common for Interceptors (Fel especially, with his ready access to tokens) to only take damage 1 at a time.

I really don't think it would be as much as a problem as you make it out to be. As someone who flies Interceptors a lot (they are probably my favorite ship, though I have recently taken a shine to Defenders), it's not most common for them to only take 1 damage at a time. It would be if every roll was average and modified averagely, but that's not how probability works. You have to look at the range of outcomes, and how the curves overlap. What usually happens on the table is they either take no damage because of arc-dodging or a bad offensive roll, or they take 2+ damage (3 usually meaning instant death) because of a good offensive roll and a bad defensive roll. It's actually very uncommon for a good defensive roll to matter. In fact in terms of practical effect, the last few times I played Soontir he died when he hadn't taken any damage. I arc dodged for most attacks and shrugged off a couple of pot shots, then a good shot would come in (usually because I was out of position) and then boom. All of this of course ignores crits which shield-less ships are very susceptible too, and auto-damage from things like homing missiles and bombs. Considering the lore, it does feel fitting that the easiest way to take out a Jedi is either massed fire, or bombs/missiles, instead of trying to duel them mono y mono.

Ultimately, I am not advocating for the Actis to have 4 Agility, I just don't think it would be irredeemably broken. I would not expect the Actis to have a mod a slot if that was the case. I do think the Actis will have either 4 agility or a defensive ability of some kind, maybe a way to re-roll defensive dice. I am not sure that would be easier to kill on the table though.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about 3 agility with  a ship ability that says you get a range bonus when defending at any range?  That way you always get four greens but you wouldn't get a fifth at range 3.

Edited by mazz0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, mazz0 said:

How about 3 agility with  a ship ability that says you get a range bonus when defending at any range?  That way you always get four greens but you wouldn't get a fifth at range 3.

Spend a Force Point to gain a range bonus, maybe? Can't double it to get the 5th die, but then at r1-2 you have to manage your resources. I could see that working for a ship ability, and I don't feel like it treads too closely on the Grand Inky, as it adds instead of negating a range bonus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SpiderMana said:

Spend a Force Point to gain a range bonus, maybe? Can't double it to get the 5th die, but then at r1-2 you have to manage your resources. I could see that working for a ship ability, and I don't feel like it treads too closely on the Grand Inky, as it adds instead of negating a range bonus.

I dunno, that doesn't feel powerful enough to me - wouldn't you always just want to save those force tokens to use as normal forcus after rolling when you have more information?  What if you got the chance to add the extra die after rolling?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...