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10Ten

May forge a key at current cost?

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2 hours ago, 10Ten said:

Wow I have a completely different result.

 

Perhaps you and your friend are trying to play Keyforge like M:tG?

One of my mates had this issue.  Kinda weird since he was the one who wanted to get into the game.  He watched the videos, read the rules, got a bunch of decks and played it just like M:tG

Not sure what you mean by "playing it like MtG."  I've played MtG off and on for 25 years along with many many other cards games.  I don't ever recall aproaching a game that wasn't MtG, like it was MtG.  They are pieces of cardboard rectangles that get turned sideways to do stuff and that's about where the similarities end, other than the games have the same designer.  So no I'm not playing the game like MtG, unless you can elaborate what you mean by that.  Sorry if that came off as snarky, I just genuinely have no clue where you're going with that.

My friend and I are playing the game the same as we did before only this time we are going for the win with our key forging accelerators instead of using them only to catch up/sneak ahead or prevent the other person from dropping us under 6 aember before our next forge phase.

When played the correct way the game takes on a much more competitive vibe and neither of us are wanting that right now.  We enjoyed the games we were playing before we found out that we could double forge far more.

All the decks seemed much more balanced at the beginning , but since we have started playing the double forging rule the correct way, games that involve decks with double forging are far less enjoyable for us because they generally get to a point where one of us says check before forging their second key and the other person just asks "do you have it" if they don't have a way to reduce their opponent's aember total because they know the double forge play is coming.

I acknowledge that their may be decks out their that lack cards to create a strong board presence and their best option at winning is by some sort of combo play, so I suppose this is great for those types of decks.  However I don't feel it's necessary to keep those decks viable as the ability to forge out of sequence is already strong enough.

Again it's not enough to make me quit, just a concern I have about how much actual enjoyment I'll get from the game and something for me to consider when investing further.

 

Edited by Ishi Tonu

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Just now, Ishi Tonu said:

Not sure what you mean by "playing it like MtG."  I've played MtG off and on for 25 years along with many many other cards games.  I don't ever recall aproaching a game that wasn't MtG, like it was MtG.  They are pieces of cardboard rectangles that get turned sideways to do stuff and that's about where the similarities end, other than the games have the same designer.  So no I'm not playing the game like MtG, unless you can elaborate what you mean by that.  Sorry if that came off as snarky, I just genuinely have no clue where you're going with that.

My friend and I are playing the game the same as we did before only this time we are going for the win with our key forging accelerators instead of using them only to catch up/sneak ahead or prevent the other person from dropping us under 6 aember before our next forge phase.

When played the correct way the game takes on a much more competitive vibe and neither of us are wanting that right now.  We enjoyed the games we were playing before we found out that we could double forge far more.

All the decks seemed much more balanced at the beginning , but since we have started playing the double forging rule the correct way, games that involve decks with double forging are far less enjoyable for us because they generally get to a point where one of us says check before forging their second key and the other person just asks "do you have it" if they don't have a way to reduce their opponent's aember total because they know the double forge play is coming.

I acknowledge that their may be decks out their that lack cards to create a strong board presence and their best option at winning is by some sort of combo play, so I suppose this is great for those types of decks.  However I don't feel it's necessary to keep those decks viable as the ability to forge out of sequence is already strong enough.

Again it's not enough to make me quit, just a concern I have about how much actual enjoyment I'll get from the game and something for me to consider when investing further.

 

Actually, there are more similarities. Howling Pit, Aggravated Assault, and Regrowth specifically. There may be others that I've missed. 

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4 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

Actually, there are more similarities. Howling Pit, Aggravated Assault, and Regrowth specifically. There may be others that I've missed. 

Card similarity does not equal game design similarity.  There are plenty of cards across all games that function similar to something else.  That doesn't mean the games are played the same way.

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4 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

Actually, there are more similarities. Howling Pit, Aggravated Assault, and Regrowth specifically. There may be others that I've missed. 

Card similarity does not equal game design similarity.  There are plenty of cards across all games that function similar to something else.  That doesn't mean the games are played the same way.

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1 hour ago, Ishi Tonu said:

My friend and I are playing the game the same as we did before only this time we are going for the win with our key forging accelerators instead of using them only to catch up/sneak ahead or prevent the other person from dropping us under 6 aember before our next forge phase.

When played the correct way the game takes on a much more competitive vibe and neither of us are wanting that right now.  We enjoyed the games we were playing before we found out that we could double forge far more.

You're making an implication that your decks have a very easy time of multi-key making.

How many key forging accelerators do your decks have?

2 hours ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

0/10

I see.  You're one of those that needs to have the last word.

Boop on you.

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1 hour ago, 10Ten said:

Nah, you just make it super easy to spot a troll. How old are you again?

2 hours ago, Ishi Tonu said:

Card similarity does not equal game design similarity.  There are plenty of cards across all games that function similar to something else.  That doesn't mean the games are played the same way.

They're almost functionally identical, though. In order for that to be the case the rules have to support aforesaid functionality. If we're going to wax semantic here, I'd like to point out that similar =/= exact. It's okay to admit that having similar cards with similar functions goes beyond turning cardboard sideways, which was my only point. I'm actually curious to see if Wizards can pursue legal action against FFG for ripping off their IP.

Edited by WonderWAAAGH

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On 11/23/2018 at 10:14 PM, WonderWAAAGH said:

If you want interactivity FFG isn't really the place for you. That said, given the usual tempo of their games, I'm okay with anything that accelerates the rate of play.  

 

On 11/25/2018 at 12:05 AM, WonderWAAAGH said:

If you’re only making plays on your turn, you’re only playing half a game. Hopefully we won’t have to suffer through something analogous to action-stacking in Destiny. 

 

On 11/25/2018 at 12:40 PM, WonderWAAAGH said:

Just stating the facts, friend. 

 

39 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

Nah, you just make it super easy to spot a troll. How old are you again?

You dropping 'troll' on someone else. :rolleyes:

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2 hours ago, 10Ten said:

You're making an implication that your decks have a very easy time of multi-key making.

How many key forging accelerators do your decks have?

The two decks in question both have two accelerants each and within the same house as cards that allow for a large gain in aember to be made in one turn.

The overall decks are nothing spectacular, neither contains more than one rare, but both are solid decks and make for a great game.....until one player crafts their hand for the double forge and just wins if the opponent can't get them below 6 aember to start that turn.

Head to head they are about even.  Vs everything else neither of them has lost since we started playing it correctly.

Even one of the decks that only has one accelerant and doesn't have great aember acceleration is rather difficult to beat, because it had a really good suite of creatures that can control.the board so you can end a turn with a check for your second key and the creatures in play of the same house as the accelerant so you can forge,reap and then forge again if your opponent cannot cclear your board and/or drop you below 6 aember to start that turn.

In general, we are not finding it difficult to get back up to check by the end of the same turn as having already forged a key.

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2 hours ago, Ishi Tonu said:

The two decks in question both have two accelerants each and within the same house as cards that allow for a large gain in aember to be made in one turn.

The overall decks are nothing spectacular, neither contains more than one rare, but both are solid decks and make for a great game.....until one player crafts their hand for the double forge and just wins if the opponent can't get them below 6 aember to start that turn.

Head to head they are about even.  Vs everything else neither of them has lost since we started playing it correctly.

Even one of the decks that only has one accelerant and doesn't have great aember acceleration is rather difficult to beat, because it had a really good suite of creatures that can control.the board so you can end a turn with a check for your second key and the creatures in play of the same house as the accelerant so you can forge,reap and then forge again if your opponent cannot clear your board and/or drop you below 6 aember to start that turn.

In general, we are not finding it difficult to get back up to check by the end of the same turn as having already forged a key.

I got nothing then.  You're one who seems to be having issues with this.  

The fella who wanted all of us to get into the game was just killing the creatures on the board.  I went through my deck twice in that game.  Eventually 3 of us finally convinced him "Dude this isn't Magic"  Perhaps there is some holdover from another CCG/LCG/etc. that is mucking up your concept of how the game works.

There are plenty of cards that can stop The 2 Key Flop:

Control The Weak

Key Hammer

Mind Barb

Lash of Broken Dreams

Interdimensional Graft

Effervescent Principle.

Neuro Syphon

Scrambler Storm

Hypnotic Command

Shatter Storm

And so on.

3 hours ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

It's okay for you to not agree with me. It's not okay for you to make this personal because you don't agree with me. Hence, troll.

Please post something productive or I will report you. That is the last word.

:rolleyes:

That was me trying to get you to say something productive. 

Those were your responses. 

How was your responses productive?

 

I gave you back the same snarkiness and sarcasm that has been your calling card on this particular sub forum.  Evidently only you are allowed to do those things?  Odd ain't it.

 

Since this is a thread that I started and you haven't responded to the OP in any manner nor has any of your posts been productive, you can take a hike.

Edited by 10Ten
extra explanation

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Just so I understand you correctly: your justification for personal abuse is that you don’t like my attitude or opinions about a game? Now you sound like my students. 

Sorry bud, it’s not your responsibility to police how or where I post. 

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2 hours ago, 10Ten said:

I got nothing then.  You're one who seems to be having issues with this.  

The fella who wanted all of us to get into the game was just killing the creatures on the board.  I went through my deck twice in that game.  Eventually 3 of us finally convinced him "Dude this isn't Magic"  Perhaps there is some holdover from another CCG/LCG/etc. that is mucking up your concept of how the game works.

There are plenty of cards that can stop The 2 Key Flop:

Control The Weak

Key Hammer

Mind Barb

Lash of Broken Dreams

Interdimensional Graft

Effervescent Principle.

Neuro Syphon

Scrambler Storm

Hypnotic Command

Shatter Storm

And so on.

:rolleyes:

 

None of those cards are allowed to be played after someone had already won.

That's the point. The game ends on the double forge.  Any of those cards have essentially the same impact as stealing or capturing aember before person can cash in their aember.

 

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22 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

@Ishi Tonu

How long are your games averaging, minutes wise?

With decks we know, 15-20 ish mins.  Both my friend and I play pretty fast after we've had a chance to play with the deck and really take a look through the list.  Also we want to be able to complete 3 games in under an hour with the expectation that we want to finish before what we anticipate would be the time limit for a round in competitive play.  I'm not a fan of the tie-breaker rules of some other FFG games.

With a new deck about 30 mins because we crack the deck and just go without really looking at anything other than the houses.  The surprise the first time through is pretty fun.

Edited by Ishi Tonu

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5 hours ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

It's okay for you to not agree with me. It's not okay for you to make this personal because you don't agree with me. Hence, troll.

Please post something productive or I will report you. That is the last word.

 

2 hours ago, 10Ten said:

gave you back the same snarkiness and sarcasm that has been your calling card on this particular sub forum.  Evidently only you are allowed to do those things?  Odd ain't it.

Since this is a thread that I started and you haven't responded to the OP in any manner nor has any of your posts been productive, you can take a hike.

 

2 hours ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

 

10Ten, This is how he operates and once he gets called out on his BS, he goes and cries to the mods. 

Edited by sabrjay

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I meant specifically for your double-key decks. Honestly, 15 minutes is about the sweet spot for any game that hopes to be competitive, for the reasons you already mentioned. Nobody wants to play hour+ rounds. 

Now if the double-key decks are closer to 5 minutes, that’s a horse of a different color. 

Edited by WonderWAAAGH

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13 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

I meant specifically for your double-key decks. Honestly, 15 minutes is about the sweet spot for any game that hopes to be competitive, for the reasons you already mentioned. Nobody wants to play hour+ rounds. 

Now if the double-key decks are closer to 5 minutes, that’s a horse of a different color. 

We've had a couple end that quickly and that was when we stopped playing with them.  Typically 10 mins on average with those decks

Edited by Ishi Tonu

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