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WonderWAAAGH

Tournament Document Doesn’t Define “Dice”

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18 minutes ago, TwitchyBait said:

Except it won't let you use the tools you want. As said before the counter is seen by many, in fact most it would seem if this thread is any indication, as a dice and even if one was to grant that it wasn't I cant possibly any TO or Marshall looking at it and being ok with it given it has the exact same effect as using a D20 and thus would be illegal to use for the same reason. You're being obtuse for the sake of being obtuse, it's about as appealing as a munchkin in a DnD campaign and all it's going to earn you is some scorn from those frustrated with trying to talk to you and frustration on your own end when the TO/Marshall almost guaranteed rules the same way everyone here is fairly certain they will... but if you intend to waste your and your officials time by bringing one then... have fun?

Hey, don't call him obtuse. He's just coming at this from a different angle.

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22 minutes ago, TwitchyBait said:

Except it won't let you use the tools you want. As said before the counter is seen by many, in fact most it would seem if this thread is any indication, as a dice and even if one was to grant that it wasn't I cant possibly any TO or Marshall looking at it and being ok with it given it has the exact same effect as using a D20 and thus would be illegal to use for the same reason. You're being obtuse for the sake of being obtuse, it's about as appealing as a munchkin in a DnD campaign and all it's going to earn you is some scorn from those frustrated with trying to talk to you and frustration on your own end when the TO/Marshall almost guaranteed rules the same way everyone here is fairly certain they will... but if you intend to waste your and your officials time by bringing one then... have fun?

Would you consider it obtuse to presume what my own intent is?

No offense, but it’s foolish in the extreme to project the opinions voiced here as those held by the gaming community as a whole. Especially since the most vocal posters on these forums are a minority of FFG apologists and irrational Magic haters, who take every opportunity to decry things they have little experience with let alone understand, in anything but the most abstract sense. 

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Two questions then:

  1. What would you do if you have your spindown to count your aember, and then a passerby bumps the table, the spindown rolls, and nobody remembers how many aember you had?
  2. What would you do if you go to a tournament and the marshal refuses to allow you to bring the spindowns and refuses to listen to your arguments?

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8 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

Would you consider it obtuse to presume what my own intent is?

No offense, but it’s foolish in the extreme to project the opinions voiced here as those held by the gaming community as a whole. Especially since the most vocal posters on these forums are a minority of FFG apologists and irrational Magic haters, who take every opportunity to decry things they have little experience with let alone understand, in anything but the most abstract sense. 

I didn't project the opinions voiced here as those held by the gaming community as a whole, you did that with mtg though saying no one in the community thought of said object as a die. This is why clarified my comment with, and I quote "if this thread is any indication". Notice the word if? I'm going by the only objective sample size we currently have available to literally avoid presuming while literally adding the qualifier that I'm using said limited sample size as my basis.

You then go on to say most people here are FFG apologists and irrational magic haters. Now who's presuming someone else's interest. People opposed magic rulings to try and understand questions about keyforge because you where inserting rules from another game in opposition of RAW to justify your position, that not only has nothing to do with "hating magic" it's the opposite of irrational.
You then go on to say we "decry things we have little experience with", I'm sorry when exactly did you do the background checks on what games people who oppose your posts have played let alone how long they have played them? A bit presumptuous at best, outright lies at worst.

Edited by TwitchyBait

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1 minute ago, RedMageStatscowski said:

Two questions then:

  1. What would you do if you have your spindown to count your aember, and then a passerby bumps the table, the spindown rolls, and nobody remembers how many aember you had?
  2. What would you do if you go to a tournament and the marshal refuses to allow you to bring the spindowns and refuses to listen to your arguments?

1) It’s both players’ responsibility to keep track of the board state at any given time, so if nobody can remember then you both get a warning. It’s the same thing if you forget a trigger, or to place a bead, or fail to use pen and paper to keep track, etc. 

2) I borrow, I suppose. 

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2 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

Would you consider it obtuse to presume what my own intent is?

No offense, but it’s foolish in the extreme to project the opinions voiced here as those held by the gaming community as a whole. Especially since the most vocal posters on these forums are a minority of FFG apologists and irrational Magic haters, who take every opportunity to decry things they have little experience with let alone understand, in anything but the most abstract sense. 

It is also foolish in the extreme to project your own opinions as held by the gaming community as a whole.

Google "spin down life counter" and count the number of results that call it a die. The MTG Wiki lists it as a die, which is a pretty clear indicator that it is generally perceived to be a die, even within the MTG community. It will never not be a die. It may be a die that can be used as a token or counter, but it is still a die. 

It's ok to admit when you're wrong. Often people will like you more for it than bullheadedly sticking to an opinion when it is provably wrong.

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3 minutes ago, TwitchyBait said:

I didn't project the opinions voiced here as those held by the gaminig community as a whole, you did that with mtg though saying no one in the community thought of said object as a die. This is why clarified my comment with, and I quote "if this thread is any indication". Notice the word if?

You then go on to say most people here are FFG apologists and irrational magic haters. Now who's presuming someone else's interest. People opposed magic rulings to try and understand questions about keyforge because you where inserting rules from another game in opposition of RAW to justify your position, that not only has nothing to do with "hating magic" it's the opposite of irrational.
You then go on to say we "decry things we have little experience with", I'm sorry when exactly did you do the background checks on what games people who oppose your posts have played let alone how long they have played them? A bit presumptuous at best, outright lies at worst.

If you re-read my post you can see the exact same kind of clarifying language. 

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If players are meant to memorize the board state at all times, there would be no need for counters.  Counters are there to help remember, because there are generally a lot of other things to keep track of at a time.  And what's to say neither player would try to cheat when the spindown is replaced after a bump?  The owner might claim it was higher than it actually is, or the opponent might claim it was lower than it actually is.

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Just now, ImhotepMagi said:

It is also foolish in the extreme to project your own opinions as held by the gaming community as a whole.

Google "spin down life counter" and count the number of results that call it a die. The MTG Wiki lists it as a die, which is a pretty clear indicator that it is generally perceived to be a die, even within the MTG community. It will never not be a die. It may be a die that can be used as a token or counter, but it is still a die. 

It's ok to admit when you're wrong. Often people will like you more for it than bullheadedly sticking to an opinion when it is provably wrong.

Dice are meant for rolling, friend. 

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4 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

If you re-read my post you can see the exact same kind of clarifying language. 

You said that no one you knew uses them as dice or viewed them as such all while quoting a poster who said they've played magic since 93 and did view them as such then you said they where using them wrong. You also didn't seem to respond to many of your other baseless accusations such as the level of experience with gaming you claimed others had or your presumption that everyone on FFG that disagreed with you just hated magic. The difference here is I was also using an objective sample size I specifically addressed, you where using anecdotal evidence. You're free to argue that many people are wrong and I totally agree the opinions of the few here don't necessarily reflect that of the greater gaming community but to assert everyone simply disagrees with you because they "hate magic" is childish and baseless.

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7 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

Dice are meant for rolling, friend. 

What exactly does that have to do with anything? You can roll the counter, it will produce 1 of 20 possible results exactly like a die will. Not rolling it doesn't make a die not a die anymore than not driving a car doesn't make it not a car.

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3 minutes ago, TwitchyBait said:

What exactly does that have to do with anything? You can roll the counter, it will produce 1 of 20 possible results exactly like a die will. Not rolling it doesn't make a die not a die anymore than not driving a car doesn't make it not a car.

So anything I can roll is a die?

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17 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

So anything I can roll is a die?

Not necessarily but a D20 with it's number printed in a different order is still a D20. A D20 functions no differently, you roll it, it produces one of 20 results when rolled with equal chance for result side, thus if a D20 is a die, it's also a die because it's exactly the same with the numbers merely placed in a differing order. Slapping a different name on it does not make it any different, again being intentionally obtuse. You realize this, I don't for a second think you're stupid enough not to, you're just doing what munchkins do and trying to skirt around the rules to garner an advantage.

Edited by TwitchyBait

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2 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

So anything I can roll is a die?

Anything you can roll with faces that have numbers or symbols on it that could produce a result, yes. You could turn a car into a die by painting numbers on each face and rolling it, though I suspect you wouldn't want to do that while driving it.

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1 hour ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

If you can easily manipulate the die into a desired result, or range of results, then the odds are no longer 1:20 - and thus functionally different from a legitimate die. 

A load die that is weighted to come up a certain number is still a die.

Once again, you prove to have faulty logic. Seriously, give it up. Be an adult and just admit you are wrong.

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1 hour ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

That’s an awfully negative assumption. Frankly I don’t care what you think of me, but it does say something about your own character if you feel the need to cast aspersions here. It’s just a game.

 

Once again, pot....meet kettle. Take your advice. It's just a game.

Negative assumptions? Casting aspersions? It's called describing accurately both you and what you are doing carrying on this losing argument. 

As I said, man up and admit you are wrong. People would actually respect that.

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