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The Grand Inquisitor

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Just wondering what's the general view on this guy in 2.0? He's changed playstyle alot compared to the previous edition for sure, doing what his ships dial is really good at now being a close up and personal knife fighter (suits the character imo). In my games thus far he's been an absurdly useful end game pilot. If he's the highest initiative left he is really hard to pin down. Early game a Prockets attack is a nice little alpha, and then he just cleans up with super natural reflexes and 3 dice attacks.

Other than the obvious initiative 6 or 5 with a bigger bid, what are some solid checks to this pilot, or even straight counters?

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I think you don't see him a lot because he occupies a similar point range as Whisper, and Whisper is very, very strong at that point range due to Vader crew.  I have seen him played a little bit quite effectively, but he doesn't do the same level of damage as other stuff in his points and Initiative range.

I expect as points are adjusted we'll see him plenty, an people may start looking at counters.  Anything with high defense is probably solid against him, because he's not breaking through high defense very quickly.  Also, being a good knife fighter also means that his best moves don't go very far, so catching him in multiple arcs can make it tough for him to actually move far enough to get out of one.

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4hp means if you can get lots of arcs on him, he's likely to pop. He also hates proton torps and homing missiles. 

Also, as @Biophysical says, he doesn't output a ton of damage, especially for the points invested, so if you focus your fire on his wingmates, you are likely to come ahead due to sheer number of ships surviving to the late game

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In general he is going to depend more on his squad mates than other aces is what I'm hearing. Then the question becomes what list makes The Grand Inquisitor the most frightening. It would probably focus on a heavy alpha strike. Then after that hurdle it's time to validate the inquisitor over whisper. At that point it becomes more of a personal preference question I suppose.

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Honestly I like flying Inqy naked, or with homing missiles. I find supernatural reflexes is too expensive for what it adds, as it burns your force and leaves you without the ability to add/cancel the range one benefit. 

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41 minutes ago, Toph said:

Honestly I like flying Inqy naked, or with homing missiles. I find supernatural reflexes is too expensive for what it adds, as it burns your force and leaves you without the ability to add/cancel the range one benefit. 

Then you don't play him correctly, which isn't the Grand Inquisitor's fault. He's a great pilot with supernatural stapled to him, he just needs some points adjusted for the obviously OP stuff that's dominating our current x wing meta.

Edited by SnooSnarry

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Haven't had a chance to put him on the table, but I think one thing is that his playstyle has changed radically.  1e Inquisitor liked to be at Range 3 to take full advantage of Focus/Evade/Autothrusters, and still making "range 1" shots.  That long-range sniper isn't going to work in 1e.  He's a lot weaker defensively (He can't get his Evade tokens as easily, and doesn't have blank-fixing Autothrusters or Palpatine), and his long-range shots cost him a force charge, which is really expensive.

However, Supernatural Reflexes and linked Focus actions are incredibly impressive on paper.  With his speed-1 blues, he seems more like a knife-fighter who likes to stay at Range 1 now.  Use a force to defend, but get to range 1 rather than wasting the force on the attack bonus.  Pre-move boost and barrel rolls make him a lot more like 1e Kylo Ren with Push the Limit and Advanced Sensors.

So whether or not he's good, he's so entirely different of a ship that the old skills to play him aren't relevant anymore.  He's a Range 1 ship, rather than a Range 3 ship.

I'm probably going to get around to playing him soon, and maybe I'll like him better now.  I was never able to really get my head around the Range 3 Sniper, never really liked flying him in 1e.  I might like him going forward.

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2 hours ago, SnooSnarry said:

Then you don't play him correctly, which isn't the Grand Inquisitor's fault. He's a great pilot with supernatural stapled to him, he just needs some points adjusted for the obviously OP stuff that's dominating our current x wing meta.

     I'm not saying that Supernatural Reflexes isn't a very powerful upgrade card. The ability to trade 1 force for two actions is very strong. What I am saying is that now you are paying a twelve point tax to have access to the basic force ability*, an eight point tax for having the two force using pilot abilities**, and paying another twelve points for an additional force using ability. That seems to me to be a lot of points that you cannot use every round. While your build is very strong at jumping into range one and sticking there like glue, as others have stated before, Whisper with Vader and juke has a similar cost and similar flight style, and punches much harder. Flying naked, I have found the Grand Inquisitor is very capable of getting range one attacks (often but not always using his ability shooting at range two) while sitting pretty out of arc. I use the (frankly amazing) linked actions to stay out of range three band when going for blood, then use those same actions to bug out when things start to get hairy. And while it is true that you cannot focus/evade on defense, or get lock/focus for attacking, you can use the force tokens themselves for much the same effect because you are not shoehorned into spending them to proc Supernatural reflexes. Granted, there are several points in a game where I have to disengage in order to not get blocked/die a quick and painful death, and if I had supernatural reflexes I could stay in the fight; but it is my opinion that the point cost of the card, combined with the opportunity cost of spending the force, is too high for the Inquisitor to be worth it. In the future, following a cost increase for Whisper and/or a price cut on the tie v/1, I may have reason to revise my current beliefs. However, as of now, your bold statement that " don't play him correctly" because I disagree that Supernatural Reflexes should be "stapled to him" stands in direct contrast to your statement that he currently "needs some points adjusted" to make up for the fact that in your build he is not cost effective.***

*based on the cost increase from a Baron to a generic Inquisitor

**this was harder to estimate, but I would assume the jump from initiative four (Seventh Sister) to five (Inqy himself) costs about 2-3 points based on the price difference between the initiative four Gideon Hask and the initiative five Scourge (two tie fighter pilots with similar abilities to one another) and the fact that high initiative is stronger on more maneuverable ships. Once you factor out the cost of the Seventh's ability, about eight points are left

***I do agree that pretty much all force pilot abilities are a bit overpriced for what you get (Luke Skywalker excepted) because you are paying a point tax for two mutually exclusive abilities, but honestly if they made the Inquisitor cheaper, I would probably keep flying him as I currently am

     I would like to be clear that I respect your opinion completely and understand that this is a silly game about pushing plastic spaceships around a table making pewpewpew noises, however I am not spending a couple thousand dollars every six months to take classes on how to properly argue through text, to say "Well I think your wrong so ha ha ha" when my opinion is challenged. Besides I needed to think about something else for a bit so thanks for that. :) 

Sorry for the wall of text

Tl:dr- Well I think your wrong so ha ha ha

Edited by Toph
format got screwed up during the posting, my bad

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one of the GI's hurtles is that in 1.0 we always had TL and Evade, in 3-4 games of 2.0 i don't think i ever performed those 2 actions with him. The guy needs a coordinating wingmate, this ship needs a V1 title ability, 9 out of 14 ships in the Empire have a built in chassis ability and somehow the TAP didn't get one, which is a pretty big oversight on FFG's part. it's not like the things were tearing up the meta in 1.0

Edited by Darth evil

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1 hour ago, Darth evil said:

one of the GI's hurtles is that in 1.0 we always had TL and Evade, in 3-4 games of 2.0 i don't think i ever performed those 2 actions with him. The guy needs a coordinating wingmate, this ship needs a V1 title ability, 9 out of 14 ships in the Empire have a built in chassis ability and somehow the TAP didn't get one, which is a pretty big oversight on FFG's part. it's not like the things were tearing up the meta in 1.0

Quiz was the mainstay ace in palp aces for the last year of 1.0. Since he came out he was paired with Soontir, QD, and Ryad. The only time he took time off was when double defenders or defender+OL was better because they were stupid good before their nerf. He's fine in 2.0, you literally get to choose when to be in enemy arcs with supernatural so everyone complaining just needs to git gud at decision making for your dial and actions and you'll find he's quite operational. Just wait until January for a lot of the dumb stuff to get rekt.

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SuperInq is genuinely awesome to fly around. It's 1.0 PTL/AdvS all over.

Like others have said though, 70pts puts him in a very competitive price bracket and the squad has to be built around his weak points, unlike his competitors. Its makes him tough to fit in. Particularly since he performs so much better when he's moving last. At I5, that requires a substantial bid, further inflating his price.

But I have no doubt that in the right squad, in good hands, he's a ship well worth using.

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1 hour ago, Darth evil said:

The guy needs a coordinating wingmate

I have found this to be the case with a lot of 2.0 Aces. A lot of Aces are good, don't get me wrong, but to make sure you squeeze out the points allocated, you need a coord support ship to get that TL+Focus double mod.

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I honestly don't think he's changed too much, I guess you need to be slightly more cautious with him. Like you said, late game he's great. 

If you have him in a killbox he's gonna drop fast. Unlike whisper which can actually weather a few shots in a pinch, Inky's positioning is key. Thankfully with supernatural reflexes, if you know what you're doing he's very easy to position.

I'm absolutely loving him in 2e. As others have said, there are more efficient aces competitively, but I love the character and luckily he's still strong. 

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70 point ship with pre-dial reposition capable of independent token stacking plus in-built passive mods, fails to compete with the cost-efficacy of 70 point ship with pre-dial reposition capable of independent token stacking plus in-built passive mods with auto-damage.

... maybe they made Whisper/Vader/Juke too cheap.

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1 hour ago, svelok said:

70 point ship with pre-dial reposition capable of independent token stacking plus in-built passive mods, fails to compete with the cost-efficacy of 70 point ship with pre-dial reposition capable of independent token stacking plus in-built passive mods with auto-damage.

... maybe they made Whisper/Vader/Juke too cheap.

Vader crew is too cheap and Quiz is probably too expensive. I actually think all the FU stuff except Vader crew is too expensive. 

But even though Whisper and Quiz are similar points they occupy different roles. Whisper is a sniper while Quiz is a knife fighter. It’s like they reversed roles from 1.0

Also they aren’t that similar in points. Quiz is 79-80 with FCS and Missiles. Whisper is 70 or 75 if you really need Collision Detector. 

The difference in points mean you can’t find the right squadmates for Quiz and keep the bod which Quiz needs and Whisper doesn’t. There is no chance a Quiz squad can compete with the 15pt Empire bid that Soontir, Redline, Whisper can do and those 3 ships are operating in a similar way which is not how Quiz flies. 

It’s okay, maybe the TAP will get given some love in January. 

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I tried g. inqisitor few times with supernatural r. And concussion missiles.

The reason of concussion was to increase the damage output, in this way inqy can gain the 3rd attack die at range 2-3 without using force tokens, saving them for supernatural and for his defesive force ability

On the paper was a good solution but it didn't satisfy me to much.

Does anybody of you try this solution?

 

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My experience with him has been mixed. Generally I find that I am at range 1, so don't often use any force for his ability.

The one thing I noticed is I pretty much always used supernatural, but didn't really think about whether I should or shouldn't for that particular turn. I just really wanted the focus and evade.

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Whisper is an interesting comparison, but what about Seventh Sister? I keep wondering if +1I and a better force ability really is worth a whole ten points. Against I1-3 pilots she's just as good as dodging, and ten points buys you Sloane, or a Proton Torpedo, or half a TIE Fighter. Maybe he's just priced so high because Supernatural Reflexes is significantly better at higher initiative values. Haven't tried Super Sister yet, but I'd imagine you'd have to adjust her role depending on what you're facing, which I kind of enjoy with mid-I pilots.

Brilliant Evasion should be a decent option for these guys, if it's priced low enough (hoping for 3 or so, since it's not likely to trigger often enough to be worth it otherwise). There's no new force talents in the sequel packs, is there?

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problem is, in this meta, dodging I 1-3 is basically irrelevant (even if you argue palob's relevance, I'd have to counter-agree his GIANT area coverage makes arc-dodging difficult regardless)

It seems we're experiencing an era of a few under-costed I5-6 pilots; being a squishy I 4 is basically a death sentence

Edited by ficklegreendice

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With Supernatural Reflexes he's basically pre-nerf 1.0 Whisper, but without the offense. He ends up being a good way to keep points safe, but struggles to generate much offense. If you're looking to get ahead on points and then preserve your points until time is called, he works fine though. Proton Rockets on him are also fun but that brings him to 80 points, which seems a bit silly considering the other things you can do with those same points in Imperials. 

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1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

problem is, in this meta, dodging I 1-3 is basically irrelevant (even if you argue palob's relevance, I'd have to counter-agree his GIANT area coverage makes arc-dodging difficult regardless)

It seems we're experiencing an era of a few under-costed I5-6 pilots; being a squishy I 4 is basically a death sentence

Depends on the local meta too, I guess. Here we see a fair few I2 TIE Bombers and X-Wings, both of which are pretty much done for if you can get an I3+ Interceptor behind them, especially one that can go slow. The trick is to avoid that initial barrage.

But yeah, I5-6 should probably be priced slightly higher in some cases. Hopefully Whisper, Boba and especially Redline will see a bit of a hike soon.

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