A few questions involving boarding

[Iku Rex 14]

I've been reading the rules on boarding, and a few questions have come up.

1. Can you attempt as many hit and run attacks as you have PC and NPC actions available?

As far as I can tell there's no rule preventing it, but I'm not sure if the intent is "GM call", "try as often as you like" or "of course you can only try once!".

2. The ship with the higher remaining Hull Integrity gets a bonus during boarding actions (page 215). 

Am I right that this bonus should be based on the difference in Hull Integrity, not Crew Population like it says? (Errata?)

3. Am I right that you can still do Hit and Run attacks in the middle of a boarding action? 

4. Boarding actions are resolved by opposed Command Tests, and either side can do damage and (if lucky) force the other side to surrender (page 215). 

How does that work with regards to defensive measures like the "Prepare to Repel Boarders!" action and the tenebro-maze component? Are they just added to the Command test on both sides (where applicable)? Is there one clear "attacker" and one clear "defender?

6. According to page 244 "the maximum total bonus that can be applied to a test is +60".

Does this include opposed tests for Hit and Run or boarding actions? Once a character has a +60 bonus (from Skill Mastery, talents, ship components, turrets or whatnot) on the Command Test, it doesn't get any better?

7. A crew reclamation facility (page 205) lets you "reduce all losses of Crew Population by 3".

Is this per battle? Per turn? Per attack? 

I assume the answer is "per attack", but I'm having a hard time seeing how "grievously wounded" men can be dragged away from the battle, transformed into servitors, and returned to the fight in no more than half an hour or so.

 

[Xagroth 2]

Iku Rex said:

I've been reading the rules on boarding, and a few questions have come up.

1. Can you attempt as many hit and run attacks as you have PC and NPC actions available?

As far as I can tell there's no rule preventing it, but I'm not sure if the intent is "GM call", "try as often as you like" or "of course you can only try once!".

2. The ship with the higher remaining Hull Integrity gets a bonus during boarding actions (page 215). 

Am I right that this bonus should be based on the difference in Hull Integrity, not Crew Population like it says? (Errata?)

3. Am I right that you can still do Hit and Run attacks in the middle of a boarding action? 

4. Boarding actions are resolved by opposed Command Tests, and either side can do damage and (if lucky) force the other side to surrender (page 215). 

How does that work with regards to defensive measures like the "Prepare to Repel Boarders!" action and the tenebro-maze component? Are they just added to the Command test on both sides (where applicable)? Is there one clear "attacker" and one clear "defender?

6. According to page 244 "the maximum total bonus that can be applied to a test is +60".

Does this include opposed tests for Hit and Run or boarding actions? Once a character has a +60 bonus (from Skill Mastery, talents, ship components, turrets or whatnot) on the Command Test, it doesn't get any better?

7. A crew reclamation facility (page 205) lets you "reduce all losses of Crew Population by 3".

Is this per battle? Per turn? Per attack? 

I assume the answer is "per attack", but I'm having a hard time seeing how "grievously wounded" men can be dragged away from the battle, transformed into servitors, and returned to the fight in no more than half an hour or so.

 

1.- As rules are today (that is, without aditional launch bays as components), I understand you can make, at most, 2 hit & run maneuvres per turn: The first, as described in the Extended Action, and the second using the Teleportarium (if you have one) with the teleportarium's bonuses. That would need the two  actions, by the way, and the matter of teleportarium + Murder Servitors has been adressed in another thread. And the question about Void shields Vs Teleportarium has been mentioned in another thread, too, but as I understand it the turrets make both vessels to their Void Shields.

2.- You are more than probably right.

3.- Uh... Well, that's complicated...

• Without Teleportarium: Choose between board or Hit & Run. The difference between the two is this: when boarding you try to take (and hold) a piece of the enemy ship; in hit & run you try to go in, cause the bigger damage you can, and go out while still alive.
• With Teleportarium: You can try to board AND to make a hit & run; the boarding would use the normal rules for boarding, and the hit & run the modified by teleportarium rules.

4.- If you want to be simpler, make the bonuses to nulify each other: if the defender was waiting for a boarding and had a +20 for the Prepare to Repel Boarders, and the attacker has a +20 from the difference between population and hull, then make them roll with +0 each. Simply is better. The "attacker" is always the one starting the boarding or the Hit & Run, of course.

5.- Lost in the warp, I think ^^U.

6.- As stated in (4), but this might benefict much more the PC's than the NPC's.

7.- I understand it is per loss. However, I would take the "mutiny rule" into account and take those servitors into action after the end of the battle (unless one of the ships disengages from the battle, trying to flee, and this puts the battle into "suspension", in which case the GM should decide how much population is recovered when Round 2 starts).

[Iku Rex 14]

Argus Van Het said:

 1.- As rules are today (that is, without aditional launch bays as components), I understand you can make, at most, 2 hit & run maneuvres per turn: The first, as described in the Extended Action, and the second using the Teleportarium (if you have one) with the teleportarium's bonuses.

Hm, but surely a ship the size of a RT vessel has more than one shuttle? 

Argus Van Het said:

 3.- Uh... Well, that's complicated...

• Without Teleportarium: Choose between board or Hit & Run. The difference between the two is this: when boarding you try to take (and hold) a piece of the enemy ship; in hit & run you try to go in, cause the bigger damage you can, and go out while still alive.

This I don't agree with. The rules don't seem to support it, and in-game I can see the value of a Hit and Run attack to the enemy's rear while your main force performs a large scale boarding action. It would also allow murder-servitors to get involved - they don't grant a bonus on boarding actions. 

Argus Van Het said:

The "attacker" is always the one starting the boarding or the Hit & Run, of course.

For Hit and Run - of course. For boarding? Not so obvious. Why on earth are my guys just as likely to surrender after a lost opposed Command Test as the enemy (everything else being equal), if i'm the "attacker" and not a single enemy armsman has entered my ship? And how can the enemy crew do Hull Integrity damage by "setting charges and doing as much damage as possible" if they never leave their own ship? 

Argus Van Het said:

 5.- Lost in the warp, I think ^^U.

 

I copied most of the questions from a thread I started over at Dark Reign.

Argus Van Het said:

7.- I understand it is per loss. However, I would take the "mutiny rule" into account and take those servitors into action after the end of the battle (unless one of the ships disengages from the battle, trying to flee, and this puts the battle into "suspension", in which case the GM should decide how much population is recovered when Round 2 starts).

Makes sense. 

[Xagroth 2]

Well, my point is a Rogue Trader vessel can have mora than one shuttle... but does it have more than one shuttle bay? Using the logic behind "simplify things so the rules doesn't end being like RoleMaster was" policy FFG is following, my understanding is that no matter if you sent all your shuttles to the same point, or to different points, or in waves... all are resolved once (because it happens in the lapse of half an hour). By allowing to make Hit & Run and Boarding actions at the same time to different positions of the enemy ship you are essentially making those two actions one, and that can be confusing to most people, so it was left the other way (also to give the Teleportarium some effect in space combat aside from eliminating one pilot roll). Also, remember the teleportarium can do nasty things like sending the boarding party to the enemy's bridge or engines... but that is work for the GM and the smart players briging the questions up ^^.

I think the attacker being defeated in a boarding action means the defender pulled the attackers out... and made a counter-boarding action, effectively inversing the roles. That is why you don't have the roles specifically stated in the rulebook (I think). The enemy doesn't need to make a pilot test for this counter-boarding action because the same motive your boarding parties doesn't need to: both ship's turrets are offline during the pursuit (so they won't blow friendly personnel).

[Iku Rex 14]

Argus Van Het said:

Well, my point is a Rogue Trader vessel can have mora than one shuttle... but does it have more than one shuttle bay?

In all probability, yes. And launching a boarding craft shouldn't take 30 minutes.

Argus Van Het said:

Using the logic behind "simplify things so the rules doesn't end being like RoleMaster was" policy FFG is following, my understanding is that no matter if you sent all your shuttles to the same point, or to different points, or in waves... all are resolved once (because it happens in the lapse of half an hour). By allowing to make Hit & Run and Boarding actions at the same time to different positions of the enemy ship you are essentially making those two actions one, and that can be confusing to most people, so it was left the other way

Just so we're on the same page on this, the rules have no stated limitation on Hit and Run attacks. I'm trying to figure out what the intent is, what makes sense and what's balanced.

I'm leaning towards allowing as many attacks as you can find pilots and commanders for. (Or assuming it's allowed, if I'm a player.)

Though some sort of penalty for failure may be in order.

Argus Van Het said:

(also to give the Teleportarium some effect in space combat aside from eliminating one pilot roll). Also, remember the teleportarium can do nasty things like sending the boarding party to the enemy's bridge or engines... but that is work for the GM and the smart players briging the questions up ^^.

Well, technically it's impossible to damage the bridge or the engines with a Hit and Run attack, Teleportarium or not.

(You can damage the plasma drives if you have murder-servitors. For some reason.)

Argus Van Het said:

I think the attacker being defeated in a boarding action means the defender pulled the attackers out... and made a counter-boarding action, effectively inversing the roles. That is why you don't have the roles specifically stated in the rulebook (I think). The enemy doesn't need to make a pilot test for this counter-boarding action because the same motive your boarding parties doesn't need to: both ship's turrets are offline during the pursuit (so they won't blow friendly personnel).

For starters the turrets grant bonuses to both sides during a boarding action. I picture it as men from both sides trying to make their way across to the other ship on lines, in small craft or even in places where the ships are touching. Turrets fire at attackers, at enemy gun turrets and may even blow holes in the enemy ship large enough for boarders to enter.

I think the idea of a counter-boarding action makes sense, but then we're back to each side adding defensive bonuses to the Command Test whether they initiated the boarding action or not. I'm starting to think that's the easiest solution, and it does make a certain kind of sense.

[zero26 0]

Regarding the Hit and Run, there is a the rule that a failure by four or more degrees will result in the shuttle being shot down. This is likely if it is manned by the crew and if it happens very often you could consider some kind of hit to either crew or morale. I mean there is no point in sending shuttle after shuttle to certain death.

Regarding how many attempts can be tried, I agree as many as possible, limited by the one action per player, and the actions allowed by how good the crew is. I don't have my book in front of me, but a crew with base stat 40, would be allowed to do 4 action, which could be used for hit and runs for example.