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28 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Check out this interesting Video:

 

 

At 1:00, he says "before this moment in the last jedi, fans had never seen a Star Wars character carry out a kamikaze attack".

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSXFegxt9zu6LmvhhVAvvi

 

There was the A-wing in "Return of the Jedi" that crashed into the bridge of the Executor. Not in hyperspace or at light speed, but still a kamikaze attack. 

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1 minute ago, the mercenary said:

 

At 1:00, he says "before this moment in the last jedi, fans had never seen a Star Wars character carry out a kamikaze attack".

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSXFegxt9zu6LmvhhVAvvi

 

There was the A-wing in "Return of the Jedi" that crashed into the bridge of the Executor. Not in hyperspace or at light speed, but still a kamikaze attack. 

That technically wasn't a Kamikaze attack. That A-Wing pilot was out of control, he wasn't deliberately targeting the Executor's bridge. Holdo's action was a deliberate attack. 

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13 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

That technically wasn't a Kamikaze attack. That A-Wing pilot was out of control, he wasn't deliberately targeting the Executor's bridge. Holdo's action was a deliberate attack. 

He didn't seem out of control, just yelling. Wookieepedia also says it was a kamikaze attack.

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Just now, the mercenary said:

He didn't seem out of control, just yelling. Wookieepedia also says it was a kamikaze attack.

More like screaming. and look at his ship, it wasn't flying straight as an arrow. It was tumbling in a corkscrew after being grazed by turbolaser fire. It wasn't a deliberate act. 

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3 hours ago, Daronil said:

Incidentally, Mark, nobody likes seasons 1 & 2 of TNG. It didn't take off until season 3. 

Generally known as when the series grew it's beard, right alongside Commander Riker :D  To say nothing of the writers realizing they had a Shakespearan actor as their lead, and finally decided to make use of Patrick Stewart's amazing acting chops and ability to belt out dramatic speeches that could be cheesy/hammy as heck but still came across as sincere and with gravitas thanks to those acting chops.

But yeah, the first two seasons of TNG weren't much to write home about, and for the most part are easily forgettable. 

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16 hours ago, Eoen said:

@korjik Ships accelerate to light speed before entering hyperspace, light speed is real space, therefore there should be mass traveling at C.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hyperspace

or Ek=1/2mv(squared) Kinetic energy is half of mass times velocity squared

Prove it.

Physics doesnt work the same way in Star Wars as in real life. You cant make assumptions like that. For one thing, what you are saying makes it impossible to actually enter hyper cause the energy requirement is infinite.

Especially since I actually know that Kinetic energy is (gamma)mc^2 when you get relativistic, and that the (gamma) goes to 1/0 as v goes to c.

My point is, you cannot assume that in a fictional universe that real world physics applies at all. You do not know what Kinetic energy equals, or if there is even kinetic energy to begin with. There is more than a little evidence that real world physics very much doesnt apply, seeing as ships seem to have a top speed and not an acceleration. 

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Which is why my belief is that it's only viable during that brief "flicker" when a ship is transitioning from realspace to hyperspace (or, presumably, vice versa), and that it's a quirk of how hyperdrives in Star Wars work that, during that transition, the ship is effectively a relativistic object for physics purposes.  Of course, that "flicker of pseudomotion" only lasts less than a second, so its ridiculously tricky to time a hyperspace ram attack, neatly explaining why we haven't seen it used previously.  I agree with other comments that suggest it has happened before, just not onscreen, meaning that Holdo had some expectation that it might work, and Hux knew that if it did, he was boned.

This is actually borne out by Rogue One, when the Devastator (Vader's Star Destroyer) arrives via hyperspace as a bunch of Rebel ships are preparing to hyperspace out, several Rebel ships hit the Devastator, and we see no "Holdo Maneuver" escapades.  Because the Devastator had fully reverted to realspace before anything collided with it (in the split second between some ships escaping and others not), and none of the Rebel ships had reached the "pseudomotion" phase of entering hyperspace, only conventional physics were involved.

Another limitation on the usefulness of the Holdo Maneuver is collateral damage.  Remember that when the Raddus hit the Supremacy, pretty much the entire fleet tailing the Supremacy was obliterated, presumably by still-relativistic debris.  Thus, even if you could pull off a Holdo Maneuver in a given situation, you have to be absolutely certain there's nothing else in the vicinity that you don't want to get hit by relativistic ricochet.

NOTES:  "flicker of pseudomotion" was a phrase coined by Timothy Zhan in the Thrawn Trilogy to describe the effect of ships in Star Wars entering and exiting hyperspace.  That kind of stretch/blur/vanish thing.

Edited by ErikModi

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@korjik I don’t have to prove anything Star Wars directors use real physics when it suits them, and not when it doesn’t, it’s space opera not even sci-fi.

All I need to prove is that a massive displacement Cruiser can plausibly damage the first order fleet. Since it would be more damaging in the real world, if it happens on screen it’s plausible in the Star Wars Universe.

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7 hours ago, Eoen said:

@korjik I don’t have to prove anything Star Wars directors use real physics when it suits them, and not when it doesn’t, it’s space opera not even sci-fi.

All I need to prove is that a massive displacement Cruiser can plausibly damage the first order fleet. Since it would be more damaging in the real world, if it happens on screen it’s plausible in the Star Wars Universe.

The only real physics in Star Wars is the use of language and actions that play on us in order to get we humans to side with the terrorists of a galaxy far, far away.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Flavorabledeez said:

The only real physics in Star Wars is the use of language and actions that play on us in order to get we humans to side with the terrorists of a galaxy far, far away.

Nah gravity is on display in almost every scene; but sometimes ignored.

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On 11/25/2018 at 3:18 AM, Mefyrx said:

He should ignore the garbage Disney is making like I do; Yes

But that most of the fans don't mind the new stuff (I interpret this as liking the movies or in answer to the other people saying there's great stuff about these movies)? no ******* way

If I would truly speak my mind about this...the movies and the people loving that, I would be ban forever from this website.

From my experience, I've spoken to a lot of people, everyone playing computer games from work, from multiple group of friends, from contacts, old school reunion, sub contractors from work, sport teammates and the general consensus is that they profoundly hated "The Last Jedi".  The Force Awaken was at best "ok" giving some hope for better movies to come, Rogue One was the closest to the old star wars and Solo was "ok" as long as you didn't care much about Star Wars...  Were talking over 50 people from different places, different background and no one loved the new trilogy... not one person

These people have a busy life, we're no longer in high school with spare time....so they are not the kind of people that are going to tell the tale about it on forums or giving bad reviews... so if I need to be the voice for all of them, then I'll be that...… but what's going to happen is that they will no longer rush to the theater to see Star Wars...because it no longer is...

So if they would have called this StarBulshit instead of Star Wars, then you would be able to enjoy this movie like the Skyscraper movie....that have no significance at all, that you don't expect anything and that you know it's going to be totally unrealistic and you're just there for some action entertaining stuff.  But when you dare call this Star Wars, you expect something realistic within the boundaries that was defined by M. Lucas in the first place... meaning yes they are some unrealistic stuff but they are contained within rules that allows these stories to be...

So yeah, I'm tired of people without any conviction defending these movies... Star Wars movies should be able to compete with other great movies such Lord of the Rings, Harry Potters, Indiana Jones (and I would even add National Treasure from Disney to the list) and other awesome action/adventure movies.... not trying to compete with Skyscraper...

 

So you know what Disney should do, they should do like Mike Hannigan and rename their franchise to Crap Bag

 

Huh... that's odd.

But it's all anecdotal.

I mean, everyone I've spoken to collegues from work, friends, people I play games with online, old classmates and the like... they all like the new movies.

And that proves nothing, since it's also anecdotal.

Actually, I guess it does prove one thing. We tend to hang out with people who share the same views as us.

But the box office speaks volumes as to whether or not people like Star Wars.

And aside from the obvious blunder with Solo (which, IMHO, was not caused by any boycott or the fact that "nobody asked for that movie"), the movies have made a lot of money.
That means that a lot of people went to watch them.

Oh and as for "Star Wars movies should be able to compete with other great movies such Lord of the Rings, Harry Potters, Indiana Jones (and I would even add National Treasure from Disney to the list) and other awesome action/adventure movies.... not trying to compete with Skyscraper..."

Really?

Well, then Star Wars died with the prequels.
 

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On 11/25/2018 at 2:00 AM, HappyDaze said:

So you having a hissy-fit over the hissy-fits others are having is somehow better? The next step is someone being fed up with you being fed up and the cycle continues.

Ah, I was waiting for the inevitable "you're whining about whiners" comment.

Saying that people should grow up and move on is hardly on the same level as someone selling all their comics, throwing out their merchandise and generally acting like a child.
 

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On 11/25/2018 at 3:35 AM, Mefyrx said:

I mean, people had to gang up on The Last Jedi's rating to lowered it because Disney had clearly bought up 10 ratings by the crates on these review websites to lure people into the theater....whether they paid the site directly or paid you know these people with thousands of fake account ready to leave a feedback for the right price....you've seen movies about that already...those aren't far fetch

 

Holy crap!

Would you listen to yourself?

You're so convinced that the world agrees with you that you you're saying that people had to "gang up" to bring down the rating of a movie because Disney had "clearly bought up 10 ratings by the crates"?

Is it really that inconceivable to you that many people liked something that you didn't like?

I think that the Twilight movies are pure and utter garbage.
But that doesn't mean that I go around thinking that there's some conspiracy by Summit Entertainment to buy good ratings for it on review websites.
It just means that there's a lot of people out there that like something that I think is crap.

That's how the world works. We don't live in a collective of like minded people. We're all different and we all like different things.

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Funniest thing about all of this, is that I don't even like TLJ.

I think its pacing was completely messed up, it had severe identity problems and several scenes were just... childish.

But for some reason, I still haven't set fire to my star wars collection.

I guess, maybe I just have an iron will or something...

 

🙄

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On 11/28/2018 at 8:24 PM, 2P51 said:

The worse thing they did to Rey had nothing to do with Force powers.  I don't care about the nerd rage silliness and how she can do whatever with the Force.  The biggest mistake was splitting up her and Finn.  They had fun chemistry in TFA.  Finn was more or less tacked on in TLJ, his whole story arc was silly and the Stormtrooper janitor that knows the location and inner workings of every 1st Order secret device/weapon is colossal bad-lazy writing.  Rey on planet Scotland, between lamenting Luke's attitude and her Force powered Skype arguments with Kylo, was not interesting or well written.  This is a person wanting to confront evil on a galactic scale and arguing with shirtless Kylo via Force/Skype is a chore?  She's an orphan that grew up as a scavenger slave on a desert world barely ecking out existence?  More like a soft whiney 1st world suburbanite I thought.

Agreed.

I really wish that they re-ignite that flame.

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40 minutes ago, OddballE8 said:

And aside from the obvious blunder with Solo (which, IMHO, was not caused by any boycott or the fact that "nobody asked for that movie"), the movies have made a lot of money.
That means that a lot of people went to watch them.

Solo's success (or lack thereof) I think had a lot less to do with the film's quality (a lot of folks really like it, perhaps not as much as Rogue One, but better than the overall feelings for TFA and TLJ) and probably more to do with timing.  It came out right on the heels of Avengers:  Infinity War, which was far, far bigger than anyone anticipated (and everyone anticipated it was going be enormous. . . like, Godzilla-barely-comes-up-to-its-knees* enormous).  A lot of people have to budget their theater trips, and when the choice came down to seeing Solo or seeing Infinity War (or seeing Infinity War again) I suspect a lot of people picked Infinity War.  If Solo had come out a month or two later, it might have done much, much better.  If it were to come out in December (when the other three new Star Wars films have dropped) it might have ruled the box office.  Heck, in September its only real competition would have The Predator, which ruled unopposed despite a lot of fans leveling the same complaints at it (canon defilement, no one asked for it, yadda yadda).  And The Predator was enough of a disappointment to shelve further franchise plans at the moment, and it was still the top movie in theaters at time of release.  Imagine what Solo might have done up against that, instead of sandwiched between Infinity War and Ant-Man And The Wasp.

* By Godzilla, I mean the actual giant monster, not the many, many films so-named.

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1 hour ago, ErikModi said:

Solo's success (or lack thereof) I think had a lot less to do with the film's quality (a lot of folks really like it, perhaps not as much as Rogue One, but better than the overall feelings for TFA and TLJ) and probably more to do with timing.  It came out right on the heels of Avengers:  Infinity War, which was far, far bigger than anyone anticipated (and everyone anticipated it was going be enormous. . . like, Godzilla-barely-comes-up-to-its-knees* enormous).  A lot of people have to budget their theater trips, and when the choice came down to seeing Solo or seeing Infinity War (or seeing Infinity War again) I suspect a lot of people picked Infinity War.  If Solo had come out a month or two later, it might have done much, much better.  If it were to come out in December (when the other three new Star Wars films have dropped) it might have ruled the box office.  Heck, in September its only real competition would have The Predator, which ruled unopposed despite a lot of fans leveling the same complaints at it (canon defilement, no one asked for it, yadda yadda).  And The Predator was enough of a disappointment to shelve further franchise plans at the moment, and it was still the top movie in theaters at time of release.  Imagine what Solo might have done up against that, instead of sandwiched between Infinity War and Ant-Man And The Wasp.

* By Godzilla, I mean the actual giant monster, not the many, many films so-named.

 

I think you're right and timing had more to do with it than anything else. It wasn't a bad movie. I didn't like it as much as Rogue One but it wasn't awful.

Edited by the mercenary

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1 hour ago, the mercenary said:

 

I think you're right and timing had more to do with it than anything else. It wasn't a bad movie. I didn't like it as much as Rogue One but it wasn't awful.

I didn't like it as much as Rogue One either but Rogue One is my second-favorite Star Wars film after ESB...

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3 hours ago, OddballE8 said:

Ah, I was waiting for the inevitable "you're whining about whiners" comment.

Saying that people should grow up and move on is hardly on the same level as someone selling all their comics, throwing out their merchandise and generally acting like a child.
 

Selling things and giving them away to people that might actually enjoy them is acting like a child? How is that any better than just sitting on them and not making any use of them?

A year ago, I myself gave away my SW comics and novels to a new Star Wars GM so he could use them for background material. I don't miss them at all.

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6 hours ago, ErikModi said:

Solo's success (or lack thereof) I think had a lot less to do with the film's quality (a lot of folks really like it, perhaps not as much as Rogue One, but better than the overall feelings for TFA and TLJ) and probably more to do with timing.  It came out right on the heels of Avengers:  Infinity War, which was far, far bigger than anyone anticipated (and everyone anticipated it was going be enormous. . . like, Godzilla-barely-comes-up-to-its-knees* enormous).  A lot of people have to budget their theater trips, and when the choice came down to seeing Solo or seeing Infinity War (or seeing Infinity War again) I suspect a lot of people picked Infinity War.  If Solo had come out a month or two later, it might have done much, much better.  If it were to come out in December (when the other three new Star Wars films have dropped) it might have ruled the box office.  Heck, in September its only real competition would have The Predator, which ruled unopposed despite a lot of fans leveling the same complaints at it (canon defilement, no one asked for it, yadda yadda).  And The Predator was enough of a disappointment to shelve further franchise plans at the moment, and it was still the top movie in theaters at time of release.  Imagine what Solo might have done up against that, instead of sandwiched between Infinity War and Ant-Man And The Wasp.

* By Godzilla, I mean the actual giant monster, not the many, many films so-named.

It's actually more than just that.

It's a combination of an inflated cost because of extensive reshoots and a new director brought in at the end of production (which also caused bad press, which won't help sales), poor timing (all that competition you mentioned above) and the fact that it was released four months after the previous star wars film.

It basically set it up for failure no matter if it was a great movie or not.

Personally, I thought it was great fun and loved watching it.

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On 11/25/2018 at 2:35 AM, Mefyrx said:

....just thinking about the fact that the Millennium Falcon was standing there ready to take off by a character that ends up piloting it better than Han Solo after few seconds still makes me want to vomit)

 

https://youtu.be/8sarFZJl3h0?t=70

Oh yeah...because that's the smoothest take-off we've seen in all of Star Wars...

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17 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

Selling things and giving them away to people that might actually enjoy them is acting like a child? How is that any better than just sitting on them and not making any use of them?

A year ago, I myself gave away my SW comics and novels to a new Star Wars GM so he could use them for background material. I don't miss them at all.

Indeed. It makes perfect sense to get rid of all of my Teen Titans comics and merchandise that I’ve enjoyed over the course of some 40 years because I couldn’t stand what they did with the characters in animated and now live action TV series. I mean, what would I be expected to do? Still enjoy what I enjoyed while just not watching the shows I didn’t? What an equally asinine and insane suggestion.

Edited by Nytwyng

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Just now, Ebak said:

https://youtu.be/8sarFZJl3h0?t=70

Oh yeah...because that's the smoothest take-off we've seen in all of Star Wars...

Shhhh...facts are unwelcome in the “Rey is the ultimate Mary Sue who does everything better than our beloved OT heroes” tirades.

(Because, oddly enough, facts easily disprove that premise, and we can’t have that.)

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