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On 11/25/2018 at 6:17 PM, O the Owl said:

We live in such a polarized time. It sometimes feels like tribalism has infected every part of our culture. When it comes to art, storytelling, and entertainment in general, enjoyment will always be subjective. As one example, watching 'The Big Bang Theory' (undeniably one of the most successful sitcoms in TV history) makes me want to tear the flesh from my body.

@ExpandingUniverse, bummer about your GM. Hope he found some catharsis in giving away/selling his collection. There is definitely emotional value in cleansing what one can physically control.

Do him a favor and run something totally different. '10 Candles' or the 'Tearable RPG' might be a good palette cleanser.

I'm running a d20 Pants on The Outside game for s**** & giggles

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2 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

@penpenpen hit the nail right on the head. There are several confirmed articles about fake "troll" accounts and spam bots that were used to artificially lower TLJ's Rotten Tomatoes score, and on Twitter. By contrast it's score on CinemaScore was an "A", just as TFA did. This is because CinemaScore polls viewers directly at the theater immediately after they leave the movie. As a result, it can't be artificially inflated or lowered. This shows that the movie wasn't nearly as "universally hated" as some people claim. I have not seen a single report or article about Disney "artificially raising" TLJ's scores anywhere.

The same thing happened with the new She-Ra series. On launch day it had 100% critical score and 10% audience score because of review bombing. As of now audience score has been dragged up to over 70% with a lot of fandom buzz across multiple platforms. 

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Calling them *******, as you've speculated, is pretty low...

Everyone may have their own opinion but some people don't have high standard and standards should be high for a Star Wars movie...

Well 50 peoples from different background is a nice start to get an idea, this is the exact reason why I've listed group of people... it's not like your in high school and with the same group of people that bond together and think the same.... I'm talking about adults who come from different background, different places, different backstories etc

Have you heard of passionate fan leaving Star Wars because they feel so insulted by what they are seeing before?  It's not because Disney bought that, If M. Lucas would have done those movies, I would been as much insulted...

Anyway, now we have people flying in space, Jedi throwing their light saber away, force user without any training that can easily do better than the best of the previous force users, stories that makes no sense, creature more annoying than ever, Sith lord that are as charismatic as M. Trump...oh wait, that's insulting to that Sith lord...even though he lasted what, 5min in the movie? .... but hey people are starting to wake up (even though many did) and see behind the curtains of that USA president, maybe they will wake up with star wars as well

Oh wait, maybe they are.... Solo movie went bad....and you know what, I believe it is because people hated The Last Jedi, and now Solo is getting it by the rebound...you know when I wrote, people won't say anything, they just won't go to the movie.... I'm sorry but if it was the first trilogy getting out, the theater would be jammed pack....regardless of how fast they came out

Edited by Mefyrx

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9 minutes ago, Mefyrx said:

Everyone may have their own opinion but some people don't have high standard and standards should be high for a Star Wars movie...

"Everyone who disagrees with me on this subjective topic must just have low standards!"

Really buddy, going there now?

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2 hours ago, DarthHammer said:

"Everyone who disagrees with me on this subjective topic must just have low standards!"

Really buddy, going there now?

People flying in space, Case Closed

 

Since i believe, me and some fan here will never get to an agreement and therefor spoil the chat...even by remaining civilized....ill ignore this thread from now on because i dont believe anything good will come out of my discussion to come....i think ive left my opinion, it is clear for fan to like it or not....but i doubt that Disney employee will ever read it or at least read it constructively...therefor pointless from now on

Edited by Mefyrx

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2 hours ago, Mefyrx said:

Anyway, now we have people flying in space,

Far, far, far from the most ridiculous thing in the franchise.  Even discounting some of the true insanity from Legends.

2 hours ago, Mefyrx said:

Jedi throwing their light saber away,

You mean like what Luke did at the climax of Return of the Jedi?  Literally throwing his lightsaber away?

2 hours ago, Mefyrx said:

force user without any training that can easily do better than the best of the previous force users,

Sigh.  No.  Rey does not do better than the best of previous Force users.  Really, she's pretty bad in a lot of ways.  What other Jedi took three tries to do the Mind Trick?  What other Jedi spent the bulk of their lightsaber duel running away from their opponent?  The only difference between Rey and Luke is that Rey's learning and growth is taking place on-camera, while Luke learned most of his skills off-camera.  And before you go on a rant about lack of training, I will point out that between A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back, Luke learned telekinesis.  Not well, but well enough to save his life from the Wampa.  And telekinesis wasn't even hinted at as being a Jedi ability in A New Hope (unless you count Vader's Force Choke, and by a stretch Luke making the torpedoes dive straight into the exhaust port), never mind us being shown Obi-Wan teaching it to Luke.  Luke spontaneously learned a new Force Power because the plot demanded it, and no one cared.  Rey does it, and OH MY GOD YOU DESTROYED STAR WARS!!!!!!

2 hours ago, Mefyrx said:

stories that makes no sense,

Compared to the prequels, the stories of TFA and TLJ are very simple and easy to follow, and make perfect sense if you just put in a modicum of thought.

2 hours ago, Mefyrx said:

creature more annoying than ever,

And which creature, specifically, do you determine to be more annoying than C-3PO/Ewoks/Jar-Jar (all of which, in their time, have been decried as "the absolute worst thing to happen to Star Wars ever")?

2 hours ago, Mefyrx said:

Sith lord that are as charismatic as M. Trump

First, Snoke's not Sith.  That's pretty explicitly stated in the films, which leads me to wonder if you even bothered to watch them, instead of just regurgitating all the echo chamber "criticisims" I was talking about earlier.  Second, when have Sith Lords ever been charismatic?  Palpatine didn't win because he was charismatic, he won because he was manipulative and able to play everyone around him like the proverbial fiddle.  He wasn't playing chess while his enemies were playing checkers, he didn't care what game they were playing because he controlled all the pieces for every game.  And Snoke's role in the new films makes perfect sense.  Yeah, he was killed off suddenly an anticlimactically, with no explanation of his backstory, where he came from, why he is the way he is, or what his end goals are. . . but so was the Emperor (admittedly, minus the anticlimactic part).  No one knew, when Return of the Jedi first came out, anything at all about the Emperor, not even his name (unless you read novelizations and stuff).  He was only there to serve as the Dark Wizard to Vader's Black Knight, he didn't need any motivation, backstory, or goals beyond "Be the Big Bad."  Snoke's the same case, except this modern obsession with knowing everything about everything (while, interestingly enough, actually thinking less and less about the stories we experience, expecting the creators to spoon-feed us every minute detail) insists he has a complicated past and dark backstory with legitimate reasons for who he is and what he does, and a concrete and achievable goal he's working towards.  But none of that matters for his role in this story, and in the story of TLJ, even his anticlimactic death makes perfect sense.  The whole film is about breaking away from the past, undoing it, leaving it behind, "kill it if you have to."  Snoke's part of that past, so he has to go.  It's the whole bloody point of the whole bloody film.

I find the following endlessly amusing, and more than a little depressing.  So many people say of The Force Awakens that "It's just A New Hope again, IT SUCKS!  Give me something new!"  Blasting it as a bad movie because it rehashes too much from the first film.  While at the same time, so many people say of The Last Jedi that "it's nothing like real Star Wars, IT SUCKS!  Give me REAL Star Wars!"  Blasting it because it took a lot of chances and dared to ask some serious, deep questions about what Star Wars is, what things like the Force mean and their implications in this wider world.  No matter what they're given, the vocal minority of the Star Wars fanbase is just bound and determined to hate it without even giving it a chance.  And that's terrible.

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It should also be noted that what Leia did to get back to the ship is not really anything extraordinarily. She simply used Telekinesis (Move) to pull herself to the ship. Remember, she was already in zero gravity anyway, so all she needed to do was use Move on the ship, and given that it had way more mass than she has, and she was floating free, she would be pulled towards it instead of it coming to her. Granted, visually, she may have come off looking like Mary Poppins, but there’s nothing out of place in the physics of it, nor how it fits within the lore or existing canon.

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16 hours ago, ErikModi said:

 First, Snoke's not Sith.  That's pretty explicitly stated in the films, which leads me to wonder if you even bothered to watch them, instead of just regurgitating all the echo chamber "criticisims" I was talking about earlier.  Second, when have Sith Lords ever been charismatic?  Palpatine didn't win because he was charismatic, he won because he was manipulative and able to play everyone around him like the proverbial fiddle.  He wasn't playing chess while his enemies were playing checkers, he didn't care what game they were playing because he controlled all the pieces for every game.  And Snoke's role in the new films makes perfect sense.  Yeah, he was killed off suddenly an anticlimactically, with no explanation of his backstory, where he came from, why he is the way he is, or what his end goals are. . . but so was the Emperor (admittedly, minus the anticlimactic part).  No one knew, when Return of the Jedi first came out, anything at all about the Emperor, not even his name (unless you read novelizations and stuff).  He was only there to serve as the Dark Wizard to Vader's Black Knight, he didn't need any motivation, backstory, or goals beyond "Be the Big Bad."  Snoke's the same case, except this modern obsession with knowing everything about everything (while, interestingly enough, actually thinking less and less about the stories we experience, expecting the creators to spoon-feed us every minute detail) insists he has a complicated past and dark backstory with legitimate reasons for who he is and what he does, and a concrete and achievable goal he's working towards.  But none of that matters for his role in this story, and in the story of TLJ, even his anticlimactic death makes perfect sense.  The whole film is about breaking away from the past, undoing it, leaving it behind, "kill it if you have to."  Snoke's part of that past, so he has to go.  It's the whole bloody point of the whole bloody film.

Not to mention, Snoke had to be removed from the proverbial board because he’d served his purpose in the narrative. He’s not The Villain; that role is filled by Kylo  Ren. The inevitable climax of the next movie will be The Hero (Rey) vs The Villain (Ren) with The Fate of the Galaxy hanging in the balance. If Snoke is still in the picture, that climax is...anticlimactic, because while The Hero will (most likely) defeat The Villain...The Fate of the Galaxy isn’t resolved. Instead, The Hero still has The Villain’s Boss to defeat in order to save the galaxy. Unless, that is, we want to rehash the redemption story of RotJ, which is unlikely, because it’d be tough to get the audience to buy into the redemption of a character who personally killed one of the most beloved characters to ever hit the screen, but his actions cause another such character to sacrifice his life.

Edited by Nytwyng

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Exactly.  Kylo Ren is an inverse of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader.  Anakin was fundamentally a good man (how well this came across in the prequels is open for debate, but the intent was there) with a dark side to his personality, who ultimately let that darkness win, chose to embrace it, and fell so hard and so fast he believed he was beyond redemption, even though by Jedi he did come to want it.  Kylo Ren is. . . well, I don't want to say "basically bad," but the implication is that he was never all that interested in not embrace his inner darkness, but he still has some fundamental goodness in his personality, knows redemption is possible, but he does not want it.

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19 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

It should also be noted that what Leia did to get back to the ship is not really anything extraordinarily. She simply used Telekinesis (Move) to pull herself to the ship. Remember, she was already in zero gravity anyway, so all she needed to do was use Move on the ship, and given that it had way more mass than she has, and she was floating free, she would be pulled towards it instead of it coming to her. Granted, visually, she may have come off looking like Mary Poppins, but there’s nothing out of place in the physics of it, nor how it fits within the lore or existing canon.

And a person can survive unprotected in vacuum longer than most people think.  Not very long, granted, but you aren't instantly going to explode.  With a strong Force connection, even only using unconsciously to try and save your life, it's entirely probable to expand that time and rescue oneself.  And after Leia's dramatic stunt, she was comatose and under intense medical care for most of the rest of the movie. . . a rare case of Reality Ensues in Star Wars.

Source (warning, some descriptions may be a bit intense):  https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/survival-in-space-unprotected-possible/

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Always thought that scene was a serious case of melanoma in progress too....doesn't make the scene with Leia any better. She messed her hair up more taking her helmet off in Jabba's palace. The New Republic makes their ships outta cotton candy, or Leia's got super Aquanet.....

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8 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

Always thought that scene was a serious case of melanoma in progress too....doesn't make the scene with Leia any better. She messed her hair up more taking her helmet off in Jabba's palace. The New Republic makes their ships outta cotton candy, or Leia's got super Aquanet.....

I'd say the latter. 

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11 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

Well thank goodness in the midst of an emergency evacuation from their base her stylist had the time to work their magic....

Well, How often has Leia not looked regal? 😜

Edited by Tramp Graphics

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1 hour ago, 2P51 said:

Always thought that scene was a serious case of melanoma in progress too....doesn't make the scene with Leia any better. She messed her hair up more taking her helmet off in Jabba's palace. The New Republic makes their ships outta cotton candy, or Leia's got super Aquanet.....

Well, it is quite possible that, unprotected from stellar radiation as she was, there would be a heightened risk of skin cancer.  But I imagine that Star Wars medical technology was able to clear that right up, no problem.

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Feel free to correct my opinion if you think it’s “wrong,” but the issue I see with the new Star Wars trilogy is that it has nothing to say.

The original trilogy is based on ideas that have root within our subconsciousness. The prequels are steeped in psychological theories that helped to inspire the ideas the OT is based on (albeit with poor dialogue, pacing, etc).

But the new stuff? It’s textbook postermodernism, where nothing holds true and you tear down the past in hopes that something new will emerge. The problem is nothing new (or at least hypothetically “tangible”) has come from that line of thinking, so the prospect that these movies will deliver anything worth remembering isn’t a good one. It’s literally nothing for nothing’s sake.

Edited by Flavorabledeez

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On 11/26/2018 at 8:56 PM, ErikModi said:

That's pretty explicitly stated in the films, which leads me to wonder if you even bothered to watch them, instead of just regurgitating all the echo chamber "criticisims" I was talking about earlier. 

Well, for what it's worth, he did say earlier that he never actually saw the movie and don't want to... here's the quote:

Quote

I've never saw the movie and never will.... I've informed myself (after hating profoundly the force awaken....just thinking about the fact that the Millennium Falcon was standing there ready to take off by a character that ends up piloting it better than Han Solo after few seconds still makes me want to vomit) reading all the spoilers and I know all about the story... I know all about the flaws...and my friends whos the most forgiven person about movies hated it....he said and I quote "there are a few great scene, but the many  scenes that are bad are soo bad that they spoil the entire movie.  It was soo bad, that the room was without any sound leaving people mouth opened in aberration (about the creature that would be a thousand time worse than Jar Jar Bing)".   Just the fact that they made Luke throw his lightsaber away like a used pen... more than likely Disney's way of saying that the old Star Wars are the garbage of another generation..... is an abomination in itself...its taking a big dump on the franchise

he also said that ''people HAD to gang up on The Last Jedi's rating to lowered it because Disney had clearly bought up 10 ratings by the crates on these review websites to lure people into the theater'', which coming from someone that never actually saw the movie doesn't sound like someone with an agenda at all... 

Edited by Red Castle

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5 hours ago, ErikModi said:

Well, it is quite possible that, unprotected from stellar radiation as she was, there would be a heightened risk of skin cancer.  But I imagine that Star Wars medical technology was able to clear that right up, no problem.

I was referring to the black helmeted idiots in the laser pipe on the Death Star.

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On 11/26/2018 at 8:56 PM, ErikModi said:

  Luke spontaneously learned a new Force Power because the plot demanded it, and no one cared.  Rey does it, and OH MY GOD YOU DESTROYED STAR WARS!!!!!!

Yeah, but Luke’s a guy, so different rules, you know?

Seriously, I wanted to like Last Jedi, and I still don’t think it’s as bad as many of its haters make it out to be, but it is probably my least favorite Star Wars movie, and even a fairly bad movie by non-Star Wars standards.

Solo I liked a lot, and feel suffered unfairly from people who were turned off by Last Jedi.

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9 minutes ago, LStyer said:

Yeah, but Luke’s a guy, so different rules, you know?

Seriously, I wanted to like Last Jedi, and I still don’t think it’s as bad as many of its haters make it out to be, but it is probably my least favorite Star Wars movie, and even a fairly bad movie by non-Star Wars standards.

Solo I liked a lot, and feel suffered unfairly from people who were turned off by Last Jedi.

You wouldn't believe how "true" your opening remark is for some fans; in particular, the ones railing on Kathleen Kennedy for forcing an "SJW agenda" (whether she actually is or not is up for debate).

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I figured that Luke was experimenting when he used the Force to get his lightsaber back. He knew that the Force could be used for all kinds of things after the stunt he pulled with the proton torpedoes. 

 

Or possibly he'd spent the time between the destruction of the Death Star and the beginning of 'Empire' practicing and seeing what he was capable of doing, maybe researching what the Jedi could do in the past.

 

Not just drinking beer and 'associating' with hot Twi'lek and Togruta girls. That's what I'd be doing, sure, but Luke isn't me. And the Galaxy is lucky for that.

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16 minutes ago, the mercenary said:

I figured that Luke was experimenting when he used the Force to get his lightsaber back. He knew that the Force could be used for all kinds of things after the stunt he pulled with the proton torpedoes. 

 

Or possibly he'd spent the time between the destruction of the Death Star and the beginning of 'Empire' practicing and seeing what he was capable of doing, maybe researching what the Jedi could do in the past.

 

Not just drinking beer and 'associating' with hot Twi'lek and Togruta girls. That's what I'd be doing, sure, but Luke isn't me. And the Galaxy is lucky for that.

Canonically, Luke had been searching for more Jedi knowledge between ANH and ESB, according to the new comics. By the same token, the novelizations for TFA and TLJ also further explain Rey's "learning curve" as well. 

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The worse thing they did to Rey had nothing to do with Force powers.  I don't care about the nerd rage silliness and how she can do whatever with the Force.  The biggest mistake was splitting up her and Finn.  They had fun chemistry in TFA.  Finn was more or less tacked on in TLJ, his whole story arc was silly and the Stormtrooper janitor that knows the location and inner workings of every 1st Order secret device/weapon is colossal bad-lazy writing.  Rey on planet Scotland, between lamenting Luke's attitude and her Force powered Skype arguments with Kylo, was not interesting or well written.  This is a person wanting to confront evil on a galactic scale and arguing with shirtless Kylo via Force/Skype is a chore?  She's an orphan that grew up as a scavenger slave on a desert world barely ecking out existence?  More like a soft whiney 1st world suburbanite I thought.

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