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GrandSpleen

Firefoot vs Rohan Warhorse

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Let’s say you’ve got a deck with the aim of taking out 2 enemies per turn. You build up one big attacker for the job. He only has 1 restricted slot left. Do you give him Firefoot or Rohan Warhorse?

I was building a Gimli Firefoot deck for fun, when I wondered why Rohan Warhorse wouldn’t just be a superior card here. I guess Firefoot combos better with Quick Strike.  But other than that?   If I have Gimli attacking for 11, he can smash an enemy requiring 6 attack points to defeat, then “trample” a second enemy using Firefoot if it has 5 or fewer hp.  If I have Rohan Warhorse instead, he can attack again for 11, which seems like the superior option and also opens you up to combining your attack with other attackers.

Any advantage to using Firefoot in this scenario? Other than obviously being cooler :)

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Two possible advantages to Firefoot, though maybe not with a fully-built-up Gimli:

1) Firefoot gives an attack bonus, Rohan Warhorse does not.

2) Firefoot lets you damage shift from a low-defense enemy to a high defense enemy.

So suppose Gimli was attacking for 6 already, with Firefoot he's attacking for 7 instead.  Suppose he's facing two enemies, a 0 def, 1 hp bat and a 4 def non-unique troll with 6 hp left.  With Rohan Warhorse, he can kill the bat, ready, and inflict 2 hp damage on the troll.  With Firefoot he can attack the bat for 7 and let 6 damage slide over to the high-defense troll, killing it too.

Applicability to any real quest may be limited :)

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If you care primarily for the action advantage/saving then I would consider warhorse better.  more flexible, non unique and cost 1 resource less.

 If you assume an high attack hero AND a favourable scenario where trumpling shines then firefoot can be superior.

I think that at release many quest had medium or small enemies with avg defence  and low hit point which could be killed by firefoot effect. it did not aged well with modern enemies stat though.

Eomer still get a non conditional + 2 attack which is still a good for a single card attachemnet.

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Oh yeah, makes sense.  The order of attack may allow you to achieve something you might not have been able to achieve otherwise, with Firefoot instead of the Rohan Warhorse.

Of course the Warhorse seems like the better card overall, but for fun factor, looks like I'll be going with Firefoot!

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It is really hard to kill 2 enemies with firefoot. A 11 attack Gimli is really a end-game situation, all along the game rohan warhorse work a lot better.

@Yepesnopes -> In both cases it provide the boost once, and you can choose when. They don't work better with firegoot, it just that some weapon work way better with rohan warhorse than with firefoot, and guthwine and herugrim don't.

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One downside of Firefoot is that it's special ability requires attacking alone.  Rohan Warhorse can still help a hero attack twice even if he's not capable of one-shotting either enemy; Firefoot's special ability only matters if the hero can take an enemy down alone.

Another possible benefit of Rohan Warhorse is if the hero can do something besides attack with his ready.  For example, if you put Rohan Warhorse on Gandalf (played from top of deck), he can help destroy something, ready, then exhaust to find a card with Word of Command (or ready two useful allies with his ring).  No native Rohan/Tactics heroes are useful in this respect, and the heroes with useful end-of-turn ready abilities aren't strong attackers even if you wanted to play games with Nor Am I a Stranger, but you never can tell what the future holds.  I suppose you could Sword Thain TaBofur, or put Sword Thain and Nor Am I a Stranger on LoAnborn -- a lot of work just to attack and fetch a trap, but it would be cool.

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I have been playing with the Gimli-Firefoot combo, and I would not call it an "end-game situation."  But calling it "mid-game" is not unreasonable; it takes some rounds to get set up.  Once you get a Citadel Plate on him, you can get to 10 pretty much immediately, and then once you get Firefoot you are done with setup, but that's going to take several rounds to achieve, definitely.  

Yepesnopes' point about Herugrim and Guthwine is a good one.  They're restricted so you'll have to pick one to combine with a horse, but anyway: since they only last for 1 attack, with Rohan Warhorse you cannot use them when attacking two enemies.  So you'll be attacking one enemy with the boost, the other enemy without.  With Firefoot, since you are intending to destroy the 2nd enemy through direct damage, you are getting value out of the original attack boost when you 'attack' (apply direct damage) to the 2nd enemy.  So yes, he's correct.  I can't really think of any weapons which would work better with Rohan Warhorse than they do with Firefoot.

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I'd put Bow of Yew in the better with Warhorse -- with two attacks instead of one it provides two direct damage instead of one, and the damage is *before* damage is resolved.  Dwarrowdelf Axe does direct damage after the attack, so that part doesn't happen with Firefoot and only happens on the second attack (if necessary) for Rohan Warhorse. The plus to attack for any weapon applies to both attacks with Warhorse and one attack with Firefoot, but that may be offset by the defense.

It's a pity Heavy Stroke doesn't work with Firefoot.  Hands Upon the Bow + Firefoot could take out a newly revealed enemy during the questing phase and spill over to kill an engaged enemy before the combat phase, which would be pretty sweet.  If you can keep an enemy in staging into the combat phase, Great Yew Bow + Firefoot could do the same trick regularly.

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I am play a Gondorian Fire deck (T/Aragorn, L/Denethor and Arwen) these days and Firefoot sounds good in theory. I was using Warhorse so far but now swapped it for Firefoot for science . Until now, I am usually dealing +10 damage with Aragorn every turn twice (with Warhorse). Firefoot seems to be more situational on paper. And seems to do nothing when you have to deal with a shielded unique enemy. 

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That one is debatable; if Grimbeorn has money to burn, there is not a limit the number of times he can use his response.  So, he can defend an enemy, ready via Warhorse (which he could not do with Firefoot), and defend again, using his response to combine with the Warhose to allow easier readying.  Firefoot would allow you to destroy another enemy engaged with you, but if you're doing a sentinel+"pseudo-ranged" attacker thing with Grimbeon via his response, the Warhorse helps you out more.

I know this because Grimbeorn pulls his weight really well in an Eagle deck I've been using recently, doing this with the Warhorse.  If he manages to get 2 copies of Support of the Eagles, watch out!

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On 11/16/2018 at 5:55 PM, dalestephenson said:

It's a pity Heavy Stroke doesn't work with Firefoot.

I sent an inquiry regarding Heavy Stroke and Firefoot:
 

Quote

 

Question: Can I combine Heavy Stroke with Firefoot on a Dwarven Hero to double the damage on the first enemy and assign the overflow to another one or to double the overflow damage on the second one?

Answer: I don’t see why not. (by Caleb)

 

What is the reason, you think it does not work, @dalestephenson?

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Firefoot: "Response: After attached hero attacks alone, exhaust Firefoot to choose a non-unique enemy engaged with you. Excess damage dealt by this attack is assigned to the chosen enemy."

Heavy Stroke: "Response: After a Dwarf deals X damage to an enemy during combat, deal an additional X damage to that enemy."

My thinking was that since Firefoot is redistributing damage "dealt by this attack", and since Heavy Stroke happens *after* damage is dealt, the timing wouldn't work out to double and then redistribute.  I don't see Heavy Stroke as part of the attack, just direct damage scaled to the damage inflicted during the attack.  However, looking at it that way, there's no reason you couldn't double the *redistributed* damage inflicted by Firefoot's response, since it is damage inflicted by a dwarf to an enemy during combat.  But it would clearly be more valuable to double the damage *before* redistribution, and if Caleb thinks that should work, it makes Firefoot more attractive on Tactics Gimli.

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One (clearly situational use) of Firefoot is that it allows you (at least in some quests) to assign damage to enemies you would not otherwise be allowed to. Using a Hero with high Attack Stat (probably Gimli or Eomer) to in example "cleave" ships in the Dreamchaser Cycle strikes me as hillarious (if probably not particulary effective). 

Edited by DrPeterEnis

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15 hours ago, dalestephenson said:

Firefoot: "Response: After attached hero attacks alone, exhaust Firefoot to choose a non-unique enemy engaged with you. Excess damage dealt by this attack is assigned to the chosen enemy."

Heavy Stroke: "Response: After a Dwarf deals X damage to an enemy during combat, deal an additional X damage to that enemy."

My thinking was that since Firefoot is redistributing damage "dealt by this attack", and since Heavy Stroke happens *after* damage is dealt, the timing wouldn't work out to double and then redistribute.  I don't see Heavy Stroke as part of the attack, just direct damage scaled to the damage inflicted during the attack.  However, looking at it that way, there's no reason you couldn't double the *redistributed* damage inflicted by Firefoot's response, since it is damage inflicted by a dwarf to an enemy during combat.  But it would clearly be more valuable to double the damage *before* redistribution, and if Caleb thinks that should work, it makes Firefoot more attractive on Tactics Gimli.

If I understand you correctly, then you only thought about doubling first and then splashing, not the other way round, which would explain your statement about both cards. And because I saw both possibilities, I was intrigued.

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Usually at LOTR an effect interrupt the sequence. So when you attack you choose an enemy. Then you resolve the attack, and firefoot passive effect make damage be dealt to the other enemy. And it is only now that damage are done that you can active heavy strike. There is no time where the first enemy receive excess damage, they are automatically dealt to the other enemy.

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