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RoockieBoy

More cannons required

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3 minutes ago, Okapi said:

I'm not getting my hopes up yet, but there just might be one in the T-70 or Upsilon pack.

I have the same thought from the ability of the T-70 to take a cannon upgrade.

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I also miss my "bread and butter" cannons like the mangler. Cannons will never be the same due to the range bonus rule being applied to them, but it was just nice to slap on this special damage-doing weapon on to your ship.

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29 minutes ago, Okapi said:

I doubt the Mangler will ever come back, but with stress control being much rarer now, the Flechette could actually see play.

Unless we're going to be looking at 10 pts per weapon, I doubt flechette weapons are coming back. Mangler maybe when the cannon boats are re-released.

Edited by Hiemfire

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1 hour ago, Hiemfire said:

Unless we're going to be looking at 10 pts per weapon, I doubt flechette weapons are coming back. Mangler maybe when the cannon boats are re-released.

What do you mean by cannon boats? Starwings?

If so: We didn't get any new cards in the Wave 2 rereleases, any reason to think they'll start adding some in future ones?

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5 minutes ago, prauxim said:

What do you mean by cannon boats? Starwings?

If so: We didn't get any new cards in the Wave 2 rereleases, any reason to think they'll start adding some in future ones?

As I said maybe. And we are getting "new cards" with the Wave 2 re-releases, just not Cannons that we're aware of (We still don't have a full break down of what is in the Expansions or Conversion Kits). We only know a bit about what is coming out in Wave 3 and will learn more later on. :)

Wave 0 = TIE Reaper and Saw's Partisans. Wave 1 = Core, Main 3 Conversion Kits, Firespray, Fangs, Scum Falcon, Tie Advanced x1, Tie/Ln, X-Wing, Reb Y-Wing. Wave 2 = Seq Tril Conversion Kits, T-70, Rz-2, TIE/fo, & Mining Guild TIE. Wave 3 = Rep and Sep Squadron Packs, Arc-170, Sith Infiltrator, Delta 7, Vulture Droid, TIE Striker and Scum Z-95 (bringing Scum up to 2 ships, the Firespray and Z-95-A4, with their 1st  in faction release not requiring buying the "Most Wanted" multi-ship pack).

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1 minute ago, thespaceinvader said:

I highly doubt we'll see Mangled back. Given the t70 ability that would mo4e than obviate the downside of the s foils.

And I hope we won't. Buying a 3 primary shouldn't be possible.

T-70s still have a 3 primary, it is just bullseye dependent for full dice when the S-Foils are closed. With the T-70 action bar and dial I'm questioning if we'll ever see them open their S-Foils.

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1 minute ago, Hiemfire said:

As I said maybe. And we are getting "new cards" with the Wave 2 re-releases, just not Cannons that we're aware of (We still don't have a full break down of what is in the Expansions or Conversion Kits). We only know a bit about what is coming out in Wave 3 and will learn more later on. :)

By rereleases I meant ships rereleased for the same faction, e.g. Z95 and TIE/sk. That's also why I asked what ship(s) you were referring to by "cannon boat".

I do think there is a good chance that there will be new cannon with the FO Upsilon, given its ability.

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2 hours ago, Okapi said:

I doubt the Mangler will ever come back, but with stress control being much rarer now, the Flechette could actually see play.

Flechette wouldn’t be hard to implement.  It could be similar to the Ion in that all damage after the first is dealt as Stress Tokens.  Getting three hits through on something could be horrific, albeit unlikely.  

I wouldn’t write off the Mangler, yet.  It’s main perk in 1.0 was to give the Scyk some beef without resorting to the HLC, while also ignoring the R3 defense die bonus (for 3-die primaries).  Adding it back in as a 3-die cannon that bumps a hit to a crit wouldn’t be bad at the right cost.  It’d find a home on the Scyk and Assault Gunboy.  Or they could even make it go off your primary attack die value, but turn all hits to crits.  That would make B-Wings pretty fearsome.

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Also missing Flechete Torpedoes, Plasma Torpedoes, Seismic Torpedoes, Adv Homing Missile, Tracer Missile, Blaster Turret, Twin Laser Turret. 

Be patient, they will make their way into the game. Wave 1 is really the 1st piece in the puzzle of X-wing miniatures.

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1 minute ago, Marinealver said:

Also missing Flechete Torpedoes, Plasma Torpedoes, Seismic Torpedoes, Adv Homing Missile, Tracer Missile, Blaster Turret, Twin Laser Turret. 

Be patient, they will make their way into the game. Wave 1 is really the 1st piece in the puzzle of X-wing miniatures.

For all that is good and sacred, no. Just. No.

That is part of the past that must die.

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1 minute ago, ScummyRebel said:

For all that is good and sacred, no. Just. No.

That is part of the past that must die.

I doubt it would be the same incarnation as the 1st edition.

But since I like tormenting people.

51L7+AtauIL.jpg

:P

Learn from the mistakes of the past. Don't try and erase them from memory, you will only resurrect them in the future.;)

Edited by Marinealver

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1 minute ago, ScummyRebel said:

For all that is good and sacred, no. Just. No.

That is part of the past that must die.

It's a name used in the lore, so honestly, I expect it to show up somewhere. It will be a very different card when it comes, though.

Just like how Autothrusters is just a ship-ability now.

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3 minutes ago, Scum4Life said:

What about a Mangler cannon that costs more on 2 attack ship than a 3 attack?

Variable point cost has been done for a few upgrades already. Could cost 8 points on two attack ships and 6 points on 3 attack ships.

Someone had mentioned variable cost cannons in another thread and it makes perfect sense. A low primary weapon ship should pay more for a cannon that throws more dice as it overcomes a deficiency with that ship. Of course, that means the HLC will go up in cost on Scyks, as will every other cannon.

On a related note, torps are more powerful than missiles, typically (4 dice vs 3 dice) - should these get the same treatment or do you think that's already factored into the "tax" these ships pay for the option of getting them? Frankly, it's a bit odd that this wasn't factored into 2.0 design from the start, but it could be added in easily enough - at least in the rules (there's the app to contend with..ahem).

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5 minutes ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

Of course, that means the HLC will go up in cost on Scyks, as will every other cannon

If this happens then the Scyk will need an across the board cost reduction to balance out the hike so that at a minimum Cartel Spacer + Ion Cannon or HLC still = current cost for the combo, if not cheaper.

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31 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

More missiles... Tie adv, TAP, tie AG, Zs are all pretty useless. 

Z-95s are doing decently, actually.  Supernatural Luke + Z-Swarm is making the rounds in the UK from some of the top players.

//

The other ships... well, they aren't worse from lack of decent missiles.  They're bad because they're overpriced.

  • Aggressor is a TIE Bomber with 1 fewer HP for 2 more points...  Turrets are a neat trick, but the cost of turrets should be in the turret, not the ship with the slot.
  • TAP is essentially an A-Wing, which has been well discussed.
  • TIE Adv x1 already has an amazing built-in "Missile" with Advanced Targeting Computer.  The ship is just too expensive.  It pays X-Wing costs for functionality which isn't close.

Better missiles would just go onto ships which aren't overpriced (TIE Bomber, for example), and these ships would still be bad.  The ship costs themselves need to be fixed; 2 points probably does it, with possible exceptions for specific pilots like Vader.

//

Missile pricing, IMHO, is also a bit off.  Everything but Homing and Barrage should go down 1 point, and Barrage should go up 1 point.  There's no world in which Barrage and Concussion should cost the same amount.

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12 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

If this happens then the Scyk will need an across the board cost reduction to balance out the hike so that at a minimum Cartel Spacer + Ion Cannon or HLC still = current cost for the combo, if not cheaper.

We're talking a lot of "if's" here, but you may be right. I think the Scyk pays a tax for flexibility. I don't mind that, but I do mind if the ship becomes unusable. Cannons have always been my go-to with them, simply because they made up for the 2 dice deficiency. It felt normal at the time but now it feels like cheating. Lol - does that make any sense?

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2 hours ago, Marinealver said:

 

Learn from the mistakes of the past. Don't try and erase them from memory, you will only resurrect them in the future.;)

No no no, it's "Let the past die.  Kill if if you have to."

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42 minutes ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

Someone had mentioned variable cost cannons in another thread and it makes perfect sense. A low primary weapon ship should pay more for a cannon that throws more dice as it overcomes a deficiency with that ship. Of course, that means the HLC will go up in cost on Scyks, as will every other cannon.

On a related note, torps are more powerful than missiles, typically (4 dice vs 3 dice) - should these get the same treatment or do you think that's already factored into the "tax" these ships pay for the option of getting them? Frankly, it's a bit odd that this wasn't factored into 2.0 design from the start, but it could be added in easily enough - at least in the rules (there's the app to contend with..ahem).

Well not necessarily. Take a look at the TIE Bomber, it has a weak weapon cost and the whole point is it needs secondary weapons. So the primary weapon value does not need to reflect the cost of secondary weapons if the platform is designed to be well. Sure if you have something designed poorly and give it weak firepower no secondary weapon will help it. HWK with 1 firepower was supposed to be built around turreted weapons and when Twin Laser Turret was out Y-wings were just a better platform. Autoblasters on B-wings were just a waste of 5 points but if there was a 2 firepower cannon platform that was not as weak as the Scyk autoblasters could have been better. 

The point is not every upgrade has to have some flexible point cost based upon one of the ship stats. Design the ship good and the upgrades will fit without having to take the derivative of the increased probability of 2 hits with a calculate token blah-blah you get the picture.

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