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Painted vs Non-Painted

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16 minutes ago, Tubb said:

I don't know about tournament specific rules, but perhaps using highlights and shadows may be considered using two tones of paint?

Anyway, the rules provided here also say something about the organisers having last word about it and HONEST efforts to bring painted minis. A white coat with black weapon should mean unpainted in some cases but talking about stormtroopers should be enough if you simply paint the base.

That's exactly what I mean about painting the army, an honest effort to bring armies that are worth seeing. Just the same way people here would ask for honest efforts to bring a good list and playing fair and give a good and funny game to the opponent. I simply value the effort.

BOTH efforts :)

 

As mentioned, there’s no way am I mutilating my bases.

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4 hours ago, Derrault said:

As mentioned, there’s no way am I mutilating my bases.

Mutilating?

Please explain.

Don't get me wrong, it's cool if you don't want to do base work.  I'm personally pretty minimalist about it (well, relatively anyway), but I don't get what you mean by mutilating.

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4 hours ago, Tubb said:

I don't know about tournament specific rules, but perhaps using highlights and shadows may be considered using two tones of paint?

BOTH efforts :)

 

Thinking about it more, here's my problem with the Adepticon rule.

 

So, in order to get into the invitational you have to climb the structure, that means that you've got to go through the store championship/regional championship route.  However those levels don't have WYSIWIG or 3 Colors painted as a rule.  

So, this means that at the lower levels you're going to have people who refuse paint (or just take too long to paint) potentially taking up win slots from those who don't refuse to paint or are more efficient at it.  That is where my conclusion that the rule is unfair to both painters and non painters comes from.   

This could have a huge impact on the season with release schedules.  Look at the timing of the commandos and scout troopers.  The rebels had a whole month where they had an entire class of units that they could field without the Imperials having the same.  Now, lets say that I'm going into a store championship a week after the Commandos are released.  If my rebel opponents have dry fitted barely primed commandos they've got an advantage at that level of play that two steps up they would not.  

It needs to be one or the other for organized play.  Either you have to play painted with WYSIWIG on your vehicles or you don't and that should be the case for all levels.  

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53 minutes ago, Zrob314 said:

Mutilating?

Please explain.

Don't get me wrong, it's cool if you don't want to do base work.  I'm personally pretty minimalist about it (well, relatively anyway), but I don't get what you mean by mutilating.

Yeah, introducing flaws into the miniature by painting a base, for example. Which also doesn’t serve to guarantee miniatures aren’t mixed up anyway; someone else could easily paint in the same color/base in the same material. All it achieves is to make the item ugly, and mismatch it against every terrain type (except perhaps one)

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1 hour ago, Derrault said:

Which also doesn’t serve to guarantee miniatures aren’t mixed up anyway; someone else could easily paint in the same color/base in the same material.

I've never once mistaken someone else miniatures for my own.  However I have lost track of their activations because parts of their miniatures were too generic.

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16 minutes ago, Zrob314 said:

I've never once mistaken someone else miniatures for my own.  However I have lost track of their activations because parts of their miniatures were too generic.

I haven't had that problem before, but I have given my commander spec ops tokens and vice versa by accident

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5 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:


No more or less mis-matched against terrain than unpainted bases.

To the contrary, clean bases are terrain agnostic. A finished base is pigoenholed as looking good with one specific terrain mat, and awkwardly out of place with everything else. 

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2 minutes ago, Derrault said:

To the contrary, clean bases are terrain agnostic. A finished base is pigoenholed as looking good with one specific terrain mat, and awkwardly out of place with everything else. 


I completely disagree, in so far as a default mud-red Legion base doesn't look anymore at home on a snow board or a sandy Tatooine board than would a green base.  Both are jarring and out of place.

But I do understand the problem of basing in miniatures game.  Usually at the FLGS when I see Warhammer 40k Armies clashing, if the forces have been painted (rare), it's usually one force based on a red-lava bases, another on green grassy bases, and the board is gray asphalt.  ?

It's usually best to coordinate your basing efforts with the guy's table who you will be playing on the most, or else to go with the most common table-flock at the FLGS.  In the case of Legion, the grassy-muddy mats from Runewars seem to be the most common, so basing to match that isn't a terrible idea.

Edited by AllWingsStandyingBy

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7 hours ago, Fistofriles said:

magnets they are a thing for a while so you can have interchangeable weapons . 

 

the problem is the game wasn't sold as a WYSIWYG game.  There are a whole bunch of people who already have AT-RT's and AT-ST's with weapons glued on.  They would have to buy whole new ones(or be limited to what is already glued on) if they wanted to play at the tournament.  Now going forward, you are right there are ways to make it interchangeable.  It should have been made clear at launch that WYSIWYG would be used.

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For unpainted vs painted- I personally never bring anything to a FLGS unpainted as thats my own preference. I like everything finished and looking cohesive and it ensures that anyone Im playing against can have a nice time too, in case they prefer painted armies. And I know that when I get new units, if I focus, I can have them ready in a week or so :)

Even though I prefer to play against painted armies simply for the visual aspect--  I think instead of bashing people for not bringing their models painted that we try helping them? Maybe they just aren't sure where to start. Suggesting they get a can of primer or two, some brushes, a couple pots of paint and some nuln oil; then teaching/showing them what to do can go a long way.

As for the WYSIWYG and 3 color rulings- at such events do they check your armies before allowing you to play?

It is kind of annoying to hear they'll make you play with whats attached when that hasn't been a rule. Wouldn't be able to use my AT-ST because the mortar is attached even though I dont use it much 😆

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20 minutes ago, Jman444 said:

As for the WYSIWYG and 3 color rulings- at such events do they check your armies before allowing you to play?


Yes, typically.


But if they don't, then before the 1st Round all players will be asked to check their opponent's list for WYSIWYG and the 3-Color standard.  Players will have to report if their opponent's list is in violation of those rules.  If an opponent fails to report their opponent, that can sometimes result in both he and his opponent being ejected in a later round when the violations come up (e.g. in WizKids events it's your duty to check your opponent's list for legality, and if you fail to report them for a violation then you will be ejected along with the opponent in violation -- this was to "properly motivate" players to thoroughly check their opponent's list, since WK staff couldn't/wouldn't check them all before an event).

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My personnal opinion is I think it depends on the setting. 

For a tournament or gaming night at the FLGS, I don't think painted mini should be mandatory. If you want your community to grow, you should be inclusive, not exclusive. Not everyone have the time to paint because of real life obligation. I'm thinking about a friend of mine that has 4 children so when he's not gaming, all his time is dedicated to his family. And as far as immersion goes, I saw some paint job that I would have prefered if the miniatures would not have been painted. Not everyone is a good painter, and some paint job are just as bad, if not worst, than not painted at all. So if I were to attend a tournament, I would not care if my opponent brought unpainted miniatures. Also, no one should be favored simply because they are fast painters or have more free time that can bring the new hotness to the table faster.

Now, there is merit though in having painted minis. I you want people to notice the game, it's always better to have painted minis. It catch more the eye and imagination of gamers passing by. So playing with painted mini at the store might help you get more players into the game. And every community wins by having more players. Unpainted miniatures is less catchy for the eyes, and unless you're playing with big vehicules, if your minis are not painted, the game will just look like a generic wargame with no real personality. Painted mini help sells a game. There's a reason every company show them painted in pictures.

Now, even though I would not refuse a game against someone with unpainted miniatures, given the choice between the two for a casual game at home, I would always choose to play against someone that has painted miniatures. Because for me personnally, the visual is important to fully enjoy a game and immerse myself into it. Especially when I get close to look at the line of sight, it can gives us some good point of view, like this one:

xWFp7GX.jpg

or this one:

SM75AhW.jpg

It would not have been the same with unpainted miniatures.

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5 hours ago, Tubb said:

THIS is exactly what Miniature wargaming is for. Althought anyone can do whatever with their minis, this is the goal.

Well, we all play for different reasons and I don't think one is better than the other. But me personally, I play this game not to win or to compete, but for the stories each game can tells. Playing on a beautiful board with painted minis definetly help to immerse myself into the narative. Unpainted minis does not, it breaks it. It makes the game more about the result than the journey. 

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On 11/17/2018 at 5:35 PM, thepopemobile100 said:

I haven't had that problem before, but I have given my commander spec ops tokens and vice versa by accident

When I said I have "lost track of their activations" I mean I have lost track of my opponent's activations because the models they brought looked too generic.  

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On 11/17/2018 at 8:05 PM, Derrault said:

To the contrary, clean bases are terrain agnostic. A finished base is pigoenholed as looking good with one specific terrain mat, and awkwardly out of place with everything else. 

I feel the same way about bases that are overly terrain specific, however that doesn't stop me from finishing and painting them~ :D

I use a dark/shadow theme for both rebels and imperials, the imperial close to the original color, the rebel much darker and less saturated, but still noticeably warm in hue compared to the imperial base. For both I use a light bit of sand on the base to make them look more ground like and a hyper matte finish.

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5 hours ago, CaptainRocket said:

I feel the same way about bases that are overly terrain specific, however that doesn't stop me from finishing and painting them~ :D

I use a dark/shadow theme for both rebels and imperials, the imperial close to the original color, the rebel much darker and less saturated, but still noticeably warm in hue compared to the imperial base. For both I use a light bit of sand on the base to make them look more ground like and a hyper matte finish.

That’s the thing. If I’m not going to put terrain specific basing on them,!I just don’t see the point of painting them over. They’re already perfectly well color-coded out of the box. 

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I can’t see the point in playing a miniature based war game and not use energy to make look good. Terrain and painting is integral to the hobby for me. Also: why spend a crapload of money on minis and not paint. 

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6 hours ago, GilmoreDK said:

I can’t see the point in playing a miniature based war game and not use energy to make look good. Terrain and painting is integral to the hobby for me. Also: why spend a crapload of money on minis and not paint. 

For me personally, I agree and wouldn't bother with the game if I wasn't going to paint my stuff. However, I certainly wouldn't hold someone else to that standard, nor would I refuse to play someone who didn't have the time/energy/resources to paint. 

Tournaments can make their own rules of course but especially for a game this new, why would you limit yourself to only associating with painters? It's two separate skills and I wouldn't dream of denigrating someone else's decision to focus on the area they like the most. If you want to focus on hobbying and only play the occasional game, I'm not going to be a jerk about it. The same holds true for the non-painters. 

In my mind, there's no reason to add additional barriers to entry - the more the merrier. Happy to help someone grow their hobby skill if they want but there's not enough time in the day to worry about how a fellow nerd spends their free time.

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20 hours ago, Derrault said:

That’s the thing. If I’m not going to put terrain specific basing on them,!I just don’t see the point of painting them over. They’re already perfectly well color-coded out of the box. 

😱The colors are alright I guess if you like them really bright and strident... but the texture and shinyness of the plastic! Quelle horror!

Edited by CaptainRocket

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15 hours ago, GilmoreDK said:

I can’t see the point in playing a miniature based war game and not use energy to make look good. Terrain and painting is integral to the hobby for me. Also: why spend a crapload of money on minis and not paint. 

Because you like the theme, mechanics, gameplay, and scene?

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5 hours ago, KalEl814 said:

Because you like the theme, mechanics, gameplay, and scene?

Also that. I hope that the game itself comes as the primary motivation. But personally I don’t put anything on the table unpainted. I have done it with Armada squadrons until I could get it done but they do not have that much table presence. I do not hold others up to that ideal but for me painting and modeling is an integral part of the Hobby. 

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