Jump to content
Jabby

Painted vs Non-Painted

Recommended Posts

49 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

I say use painted as much as possible. I just finished making 3 custom E-Webs (see drop down box)and didn't have time to paint them before the match... While they don't hurt the look as bad as the space mats, they definitely stick out in an army of painted figures. 
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 


2tZUvIe.jpg

 

 

 

 


b1hNEz7.jpg

pXwEpJB.jpg

 

Nice terrain. where from?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lord Ashram said:

Unless you are playing solo, I think why it matters would be clear; some opponents like the visuals of the game, as it helps you immerse yourself in it and really pretend it is Star Wars, as opposed to little plastic figures:)

This. Its not YOU alone playing, you are participating in a game with others, even if it is merely competition, there is something to say about playing TOGETHER, and for many gamers that involves an attention to the details and immersion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, chieftom22 said:

This. Its not YOU alone playing, you are participating in a game with others, even if it is merely competition, there is something to say about playing TOGETHER, and for many gamers that involves an attention to the details and immersion.

And for some it does not. Some people who play RPGs fully immerse themselves in their characters and play the roles, others are more interested in solving puzzles, and other just want to roll dice and kill monsters. Each of the playstyles is equally valid, and each of these players can co-exist partially by not forcing their playstyle on others. Some wargamers enjoy painting, some don't. There is no single "right" way to enjoy a game.

 

@Darth Sanguis By the way, nice e-web conversions! Just an arm swap on the gunners, or a bit of a chop and mod? 

Edited by Caimheul1313

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, chieftom22 said:

I'm not a 40k player but I've heard that, at one point, they forced tournament players to paint at least Three colors on their minis due to the fact that entire tournaments consisted of unpainted armies and players trying to protect their painted models. This was bad rep for GW, so they made a new rule. All this did was make these players quickly spray three different shades on their models before tournaments.

Protect them from what? (Are other players regularly trying to molest their miniatures?)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My army is partially painted, most of the bases are not done yet and I have a stack of stuff to still even be assembled.  I find painting a bit of a chore, and I stopped because I had an idea for a whole new terrain board so I spent the last month on that instead. (Month being relative to my available time within it)

 

perfer painted for my self yes, play in painted yes, I just want to lay the game and have fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

And for some it does not. Some people who play RPGs fully immerse themselves in their characters and play the roles, others are more interested in solving puzzles, and other just want to roll dice and kill monsters. Each of the playstyles is equally valid, and each of these players can co-exist partially by not forcing their playstyle on others. Some wargamers enjoy painting, some don't. There is no single "right" way to enjoy a game.

 

@Darth Sanguis By the way, nice e-web conversions! Just an arm swap on the gunners, or a bit of a chop and mod? 

This. Painting is not playing. Everyone should feel comfortable to play their own army the way they want. If you view your opponent as insulting you if they don't bring an army in a color other than grey, it feels like that is more your problem than theirs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

 By the way, nice e-web conversions! Just an arm swap on the gunners, or a bit of a chop and mod? 

Completely chopped and modded, with the exception of the one unmodded stormtrooper squad leader on the one E-Web every other mini is the product of at least 3 to 6 minis. I chopped up nearly 2 whole squads lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, TauntaunScout said:

It was 3 colors not including primer, bases had to be finished

I almost missed this part. That’s a straight deal breaker, as finished bases (and I know it’s just my opinion) always always look godawful and out of place. Especially in a game that supposedly takes place on a massive range of terrain types.

Leaving them black and red to denote team is infinitely superior to seeing everyone standing in sand on a planet covered in snow, and it always will be.

So, yeah, that’s a horrifyingly bad idea then and now. 

Edited by Derrault
Fixing a typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Derrault said:

I almost missed this part. That’s a straight deal breaker, finished bases (and I know it’s just my opinion) always always look godawful and out of place. Especially in a game that supposedly takes place on a massive range of terrain types.

Leaving them black and red to denote team is infinitely superior to seeing everyone standing in sand on a planet covered in snow, and it always will be.

So, yeah, that’s a horrifyingly bad idea then and now. 

I disagree with your opinion, but I will defend to the death your right to enact it on your own minis, lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By "good faith actor" it meant two things. We assumed that people didn't paint minis because of a good reason, like they were a newbie, or had a crazy semester at school or something, not because they just didn't care. Because that was usually true.

The second thing it meant was, if your list was unpainted, we assumed that was NOT because you came up with a new cheezy thing each week and couldn't paint that fast. Partly this was grim practicality: it could be very hard to find the weapon variations you wanted in stores back then. We assumed our opponents were just doing minor list tweaks and if stuff wasn't totally painted/WYSIWYG it was fine.

This wasn't always true though! One guy in our group was the king of coming up with statistically unbeatable stuff and proxying an old shoe or something for it... the thing was, you'd respond by coming up with a bizarre list of your own to defeat the Achilles heel of whatever improbable stuff he took, but then he'd figure out another broken thing. You'd get clobbered, then defeat it by exploiting it's weakness with a horrible list of your own next time. And sometimes you had to laugh at the sheer craziness of stuff he'd pull off.  But... the games were just getting bizarro and no one was having any fun. Except the one guy when he cackled to himself during list-computation. We had to get strict with him and painted WYSIWYG models because we tried being laid back and he just wasn't being cool about it.

 

I put it to you like this. Suppose tournaments and casual play alike were filled with people who don't even try to win. They follow the rules, but they don't actually try to win. Imagine 9/10th's of people in your scene all either:

  • Concede after any unlucky turn
  • Make up their own conditions for a moral victory and only pursue those
  • Stampede their own troops off cliffs and laugh about it

Or something akin to the above. How much fun would you have in the games? Sure you'll win but, what does that even prove in that situation? Would you still say "it doesn't impact me how they have fun at their own hobby?". Or would it get real old, real fast if that was what you could expect in 9/10ths of games?

It's a lot of fun to see two fully painted armies on a table of scenery for the same reason most of us buy color tv's. It's daunting but if you give it a try, with all the info available online nowadays, it's not expensive, or time consuming. When most players don't even try to paint it gets old.

All the king's excuses and all the king's rationalizations don't make an unpainted army more fun to see on the tabletop.

Edited by TauntaunScout

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

11 minutes ago, Derrault said:

I almost missed this part. That’s a straight deal breaker, as finished bases (and I know it’s just my opinion) always always look godawful and out of place. Especially in a game that supposedly takes place on a massive range of terrain types.

Leaving them black and red to denote team is infinitely superior to seeing everyone standing in sand on a planet covered in snow, and it always will be.

So, yeah, that’s a horrifyingly bad idea then and now. 

I knew a guy who agreed so strongly with you that he didn't use bases. At all. He bent the figures legs around to ensure they could balance without them. And that flew in his local scene for some reason, don't ask me how. I never played with him, I met him after he quit gaming.

For tournaments, I think "finished" just meant "not covered in random figure paint blobs and glue". You had to at least paint over that stuff on the base after finishing your figures.

I always liked the bases with their flocking and stuff. Made the figures look "like a miniature" which has it's own charm. Think about it: we don't want stained glass windows to look realistic, we want them to look like a stained glass window.

For my Star Wars guys, I (usually) base them all to match my most extensive gaming table, but that's another subject.

Edited by TauntaunScout

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@TauntaunScout it seems like then your problem is with those particular players and not unpainted armies. Yes, unpainted armies can facilitate WAAC players but to paint all unpainted players with the same brush (pun slightly intended) you are being narrow-minded and cynical.

Yes, it is always MORE fun to see painted armies on the tabletop clashing. It is by no means the only source of fun. I find a lot of the fun determined by the attitude that each player brings to the game. Some of my most fun games have been against unpainted armies because both people came in with a fun attitude. Some of my worst games have been against painted armies because that person came into it sour or only focused on crushing me.

Your experiences obviously inform your opinion and they sound awful, but your experiences are by no means the only ones out there. It behooves all of us to be welcoming, encouraging (not pushy) and supportive. Be the example you want to see and people will follow your lead, without having to cajole or shame them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, ImhotepMagi said:

@TauntaunScoutBe the example you want to see and people will follow your lead,

No they won't.

29 minutes ago, ImhotepMagi said:

without having to cajole or shame them.

I don't.

Like I said. For years I've offered a free paint set to anyone who "can't afford" to paint their minis. No one's ever taken me up on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, TauntaunScout said:

No they won't.

I don't.

Like I said. For years I've offered a free paint set to anyone who "can't afford" to paint their minis. No one's ever taken me up on it.

Yes they will. See I can be contradictory too.

More seriously, you are right if that's the attitude you have about it.

And it is kind of you to offer to give them paint, if your aim is altruism. It sounds like you carry it around simply to have a "gotcha" in the event someone tells you they can't afford it. Sometimes, people will make up an excuse just to get someone to leave them alone. Or the offer may make them uncomfortable. Or they feel it comes with some sort of strings attached. The offer may feel like charity they are ashamed to accept. If no one has ever taken free stuff from you, that may be a sign.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I prefer painted minis, both for myself and my opponent. I typically only have one guy to play against (not much of a local gaming scene, no local game store). He hasn’t bought into Legion at all. When it came out, he was of the opinion that it was just a different option to fill the same role his old Wizards of the Coast minis already do. Hence, all of the minis for both of us are provided by me. 

The obvious implication is that I will furnish my opponent with painted minis for the sake of both our enjoyment. My opponent gets to try a new game, or play one he’s decided he likes, without having to buy in or paint anything, and I get to play with finished minis. 

Beyond the implication, if I play against someone who owns their own minis, and hasn’t painted them, that’s their right. If they don’t like to paint or don’t have the time, I’ll paint the minis if they’ll buy them and buy materials/paints. Assuming they WANT painted models. If they just like the plain plastic look, for the sake of getting to play a game I enjoy, I’ll get past the unpainted look and still play. 

My entry to gaming was through SPI and the hex and counter version of Star Fleet Battles- even unpainted miniatures are more visually appealing than colored chits of card board...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Derrault said:

I almost missed this part. That’s a straight deal breaker, as finished bases (and I know it’s just my opinion) always always look godawful and out of place. Especially in a game that supposedly takes place on a massive range of terrain types.

Leaving them black and red to denote team is infinitely superior to seeing everyone standing in sand on a planet covered in snow, and it always will be.

So, yeah, that’s a horrifyingly bad idea then and now. 

You are perfectly welcome to your opinion, but I also respectfully disagree. 

I view basing as a way of tying the army together, explaining the camo choices (if relevant), and making the army into a kind of mini diorama when on display. Since the game isn't played strictly Empire vs Rebels I'm not sure what benefit denoting faction would actually have. That said, nothing stops you from basing on a base with the faction symbol.  

 

Edit: It can also be used to identify which minis you own. If two people paint their Empire miniatures screen accurate and base on black, then it will be VERY hard for them to make sure each player walks away with their minis should they become intermingled in melee. 

Edited by Caimheul1313

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Darth Sanguis said:

I say use painted as much as possible. I just finished making 3 custom E-Webs (see drop down box)and didn't have time to paint them before the match... While they don't hurt the look as bad as the space mats, they definitely stick out in an army of painted figures. 
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 


2tZUvIe.jpg

 

 

 

 


b1hNEz7.jpg

pXwEpJB.jpg

 

It is appropriate that you played this on a star map as that board is almost as empty as space itself. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a good reason for my minis not being fully painted yet: they're not fully painted yet. I don't care what anyone thinks of my reasons or when I should have them painted. They're Star Wars army men--painting is not required. 

Besides, with my limited skills, I call my stormtroopers the clown brigade. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Count me among those who favor finished bases- I’ve gone back and forth, and for Imperial Assault I came to prefer clear acrylic bases, save where that was nearly impossible with the tools at my disposal. (It’s easy to make a straight cut at the feet of a figure to remove them from a base- cutting 3/8” to 3/4” of solid plastic, like the Emperor or his guards, is a little different, at least if you’re limited to an X-acto knife to do the job...)

That said, a game like Legion is something I tend to look at like a sort of living diorama. The terrain on my table will vary, but most of the time temperate, grassy terrain is the dominant theme. Each piece of terrain is a work of art. Adding thematically similar terrain to the bases, especially of the large units, adds to the visual appeal, blending the table further to a cinematic, immersive look. 

My first game of Legion used plain plastic bases- I thought the firing arcs would be more easily seen on plain bases. Despite the terrain and paint jobs looking good enough for me, the brown and gray disks underneath every unit seriously undermined the illusion. In retrospect, I find the firing arcs were actually no easier to identify then, as I simply used a toothpick to keep clean arc lines when working on basing, so the arc lines are distinct from the grass, bushes and rocks used for basing. 

Just my preference, but games like Legion, 40k, and Infinity seem like they’re meant to be both good games and beautiful display pieces, varying in appeal according to personal tastes, of course. (Honestly, i find little appeal to the majority of 40k, but I know a lot of others LOVE it.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Zrob314 said:

It is appropriate that you played this on a star map as that board is almost as empty as space itself. 

Yeah, my terrain collection is FAR from complete....


Aside from making my own salt flats mat to match Crait (which I apparently have to do myself because no one sells one and no one will let me color edit their desert mat to have it made, even when I offer extra money) I intend to have quite a bit more here. The plan is to break that AT AT down quite a bit and add rock formations higher/lower ground via trenches and cliffs. I figure by breaking the At At up I increase the footprint and the cliff and trenches will add a significant amount of difficult terrain. Still a WIP...

I just got into Legion in September... the fact that I have 90% of my army painted is a miracle in itself. It'll get better as I go...

Edited by Darth Sanguis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Darth Sanguis said:

Yeah, my terrain collection is FAR from complete....


Aside from making my own salt flats mat to match Crait (which I apparently have to do myself because no one sells one and no one will let me color edit their desert mat to have it made, even when I offer extra money) I intend have quite a bit more here. Plan is to break that AT AT down quite a bit and add rock formations higher/lower ground via trenches and cliffs. I figure by breaking the At At up I increase the footprint. 

I just got into Legion in September... the fact that I have 90% of my army painted is a miracle in itself. It'll get better as I go...

Apologies, that was not intended to be an attack on you personally, I'm just agog at how many sparse maps I see out there.   

 

As an olive branch, here's some custom mat options

https://www.inkedgaming.com/products/custom-playmat-36x36

(would have to get two as the best they do is 3x3)

https://matsbymars.com/pages/faq

Mars does custom work.  I have two of their standards mats, and they've been great to order from.  

https://www.deepcutstudio.com/custom-mats/

 

You could also probably just get a local print shop to do a 6x3 vinyl, but not sure on that.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Zrob314 said:

Apologies, that was not intended to be an attack on you personally, I'm just agog at how many sparse maps I see out there.   

 

As an olive branch, here's some custom mat options

https://www.inkedgaming.com/products/custom-playmat-36x36

(would have to get two as the best they do is 3x3)

https://matsbymars.com/pages/faq

Mars does custom work.  I have two of their standards mats, and they've been great to order from.  

https://www.deepcutstudio.com/custom-mats/

 

You could also probably just get a local print shop to do a 6x3 vinyl, but not sure on that.

 

No worries! I've been told a few times how sparse it is, I'm just here like:

tenor.gif


My plan was to try my luck with inked. I just snagged a cracked earth template today and did the color adjustments needed, but I have a TON of editing work to do before I finish it....  

Thanks for the other links though, I'll investigate when I get home!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ImhotepMagi said:

Yes they will. See I can be contradictory too.

I'm a lot less of an example than the sea of print material and youtube tutorials. And I've yet to meet someone who painted their army because they saw mine. I rarely meet anyone with a painted army at all for that matter.

1 hour ago, ImhotepMagi said:

 

And it is kind of you to offer to give them paint, if your aim is altruism.

My aim is to have painted armies around.

But again. If I didn't even try to win, if I was to stampede my squads into dangerous terrain for fun, or make up an insult that my army had to avenge by wiping out a specific stormtrooper squad to the exclusion of all other objectives, every single game... people wouldn't say "Oh that's just how he enjoys his hobby". It would be me not taking the game seriously, I'm just wasting my opponents time, etc. etc. If the great majority of players didn't even try? Disaster. But the visual equivalent is acceptable to the community for some reason, in a highly visual pursuit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...