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HirumaShigure

Fastred and Haldan

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Hey LOTR lore masters, I was wondering if the Fastred spirit hero from The Black Serpent is an existing character or if he was an invention of Fantasy Flight. I was going to start a "campaign" run through of all the adventure packs with the self imposed restriction of only using the characters that aren't canon, but am unsure whether Fastred qualifies or not. Also Haldan from Roam Across from Rhovanion. Help please. 

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Haldan is FFG-created, while Fastred is actually a bit of a grey area. A Fastred is mentioned in the Song of the Mounds of Mundburg (listing heroes who died in the Battle of the Pelannor Fields) but he's no more than a name ('Herefara and Herubrand, Horn and Fastred,
fought and fell there in a far country'). But Fasted was also the name of Theoden's great uncle, who died fighting the Haradrim with his Gondorion allies. So I think it's Caleb showing off his knowledge of the lore in making a nod to original. Of course, very natural to name someone after a famous fallen hero, so I that's how I imagine it. Whether the LCG character is the same Fastred that rode with Theoden, I think it's left open for you to interpret either way.

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20 minutes ago, Will Anderson said:

Whether the LCG character is the same Fastred that rode with Theoden, I think it's left open for you to interpret either way.

Is it? I thought that the time period of the deluxes and cycles was the 17 year interim between the Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, so I don't think it could be Theoden's great uncle.

Furthermore, Fastred's flavor text:

Quote

"King's man! King's man!" his heart cried within him.

Is from the Battle of Pelennor Fields, and is referring to King Theoden. So I'm fairly certain this is meant to be the Fastred that rode with Theoden and died on the Pelennor.

Edited by Seastan

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No, you're right, it definitely COULDN'T have been Theoden's great-uncle Fastred (well, following the LCG timeline); I never said it could. I said it could or could not be the Fastred who rode WITH Theoden (to Pelannor). I tend to think it is intended as such, but since Caleb hasn't said and we have next to no knowledge of that character, it also seems possible it could be a 'random' Fastred, as it were. Basically, that HirumeShiruge has grounds for including or not including him as an FFG created hero. 

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I reason that I doubted that they were not canon was because they didn't receive flavor fiction in their AP the way FFG created characters received starting with Idraen. I haven't played the scenario that introduces Haldan as an objective ally however, and perhaps that scenario is enough of a backstory that they felt they didn't need to describe he any further with his own fiction. In the case of Fastred, such an obscure mentioning seems like they would have chosen some other Rohan character to create as a new hero. But, it lines up: name Fastred, from Rohan. I feel comfortable using him freely for my purposes though. He'll be the only character with the Rohan trait that I could use in my campaign, without him, there would be a significant portion of the card pool that thematically would be "unusable".

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3 hours ago, Will Anderson said:

No, you're right, it definitely COULDN'T have been Theoden's great-uncle Fastred (well, following the LCG timeline); I never said it could. I said it could or could not be the Fastred who rode WITH Theoden (to Pelannor). I tend to think it is intended as such, but since Caleb hasn't said and we have next to no knowledge of that character, it also seems possible it could be a 'random' Fastred, as it were. Basically, that HirumeShiruge has grounds for including or not including him as an FFG created hero. 

Sorry, I had misinterpreted what you wrote.

But still, there's noting to suggest that this is a FFG-created hero. There's no accompanying backstory, which has been the standard for non-canon heroes for a long time. And they've never named a non-canon hero by the same name as a character in the canon. By the same token, how do we know Eowyn isn't just a 'random' Eowyn?

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14 hours ago, Seastan said:

I thought that the time period of the deluxes and cycles was the 17 year interim between the Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, so I don't think it could be Theoden's great uncle.

The period between Hobbit and Frodo leaving the shire is actually 76 years (2942 to 3018), but there are exactly 17 years between Bilbo leaving the shire and Frodo leaving the shire, and so far all (non-Hobbit-saga) canonical heroes were alive during that 17-year period (though some like Eowyn and Pippin were not hero age at the beginning of it).  I'd *love* to see some canonical heroes who were active after 2942 but deceased before 3018, but I'm not expecting it.

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2 hours ago, Authraw said:

Doesn't Beorn fit that category? Who else would you like to see? I guess I'd like a Bain son of Bard, just so we have the full lineage from Bard to Bard. 

Beorn hero was released in the hobbit saga.  But I think his character version might be the only canonical character (outside the hobbit saga) to not be around in 3018).

I'd like to see Bain, I'd also like to see Gilraen (mother of Aragorn, died 3007), and ally versions of Balin, Ori, and Oin.  Thengel, Findulias and Ecthelion II were all active at this time, and Eomund (father of Eomer and Eowyn) lived to 3002.  Hildifons Took went on a journey and never returned, although 46 years older than Bilbo that'd still make him sub-100 after the Hobbit finished.  Isengar Took is said to have 'gone to sea' in his youth and is only 28 years older than Bilbo.

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There was a woodsman named Haldan in 366-451 of the First Age so maybe the hero is just named after him. Many people in Middle-earth were named after older people like Denethor's father Ecthelion was named after an Elf from Gondolin so even though I'm sure this guy isn't the same Haldan he could be his namesake.

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I don't know if Gerontius Took (the Old Took) died before or after the Hobbit story but I would like to see a hero version of him that did something for having more Hobbit allies on the table as he had 12 children!

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