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Robots1910

Defeated nemesis

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Hi Gang!
When I defeat Splig in the first scenario, is he put aside or is he discarded to the enemy discard pile.
And, if the is discarded to the pile, shuffled and then enters play again, do I have to defeat him a second time.
Thanks!

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16 hours ago, Robots1910 said:

Hi Gang!
When I defeat Splig in the first scenario, is he put aside or is he discarded to the enemy discard pile.
And, if the is discarded to the pile, shuffled and then enters play again, do I have to defeat him a second time.
Thanks!

Although I could not find it in the rules, I would say (based on the WH Quest, which I did play) that it is removed from the game when you defeat him. That would also mean that his nemesis ability does not work anymore ("If a nemesis from the campaign pool is defeated, it is returned to the game box and is no longer used for the rest of the campaign." - from the rules reference of the WHQ card game, page 11).

Also, it would be strange to defeat an unique enemy, just for it to be spawned again :D

Hope that helps :)

Edited by Jurcccy
added clarification

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IMHO, a defeated Nemesis gets back faceup to its Lair, ready to become engaged again. In this way also the threats can be easily managed ?

BTW, this is not WHQ and no campaigns for the time being ?

Edited by tibia

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9 hours ago, VAYASAN said:

Still waiting for my box but imo it would be completely crazy to have a unique boss monster appear again after being defeated.

Why? In stories the villain frequently slinks away to recuperate, striking the heroes when most dramatically appropriate, only to finally be struck down after the final battle.... or were they? ?
I think there were some quests in WHQ that involved the Nemesis going back to the Nemesis zone when defeated... 

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"Nemesis" is an enemy trait. So we can assume that nemeses are also enemies.

With that clarified, p.11 of the rule book states the following: "Nemeses follow the same rules as enemies, except for the following exceptions". Said exceptions don't reveal anything about nemesis enemy cards being handled differently than normal enemies once defeated (up to that point at least).

Now, p.9 of the rulebook mentions under "Defeated"  that when an enemy is defeated (doesn't specify which type, so let's assume all of them), that enemy's card and any wound tokens on it are discarded.

From what i'm reading so far, it appears that nemesis enemy cards would be discarded in the enemy discard pile. Also don't forget that in WHQ, the mention of nemesis enemies retreating to their lair upon defeat (Odious Grump if i remember well) was printed on the quest sheet as a special scenario effect. I don't think this is the case with the Splig scenario (please forgive me if i'm wrong). The WHQ rule book still didn't mention anything about how to handle defeated nemeses, except perhaps those coming from the campaign pool, which would then be put back in the box.

So unless proven otherwise by the designers, i daresay that discarding the nemesis enemy card in the enemy discard pile could be our safest assumption.

Feel free to correct me if i assume too much ?

Edited by Shirys

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Thanks everyone! I feel like the discard pile and potential respawn outcome best reflects rules as written at the moment and I'm okay with it thematically so that's how I'll proceed personally. I've enjoyed everyone's arguments though!

Thanks again!

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On 11/13/2018 at 10:39 PM, Shirys said:

"Nemesis" is an enemy trait. So we can assume that nemeses are also enemies.

With that clarified, p.11 of the rule book states the following: "Nemeses follow the same rules as enemies, except for the following exceptions". Said exceptions don't reveal anything about nemesis enemy cards being handled differently than normal enemies once defeated (up to that point at least).

Now, p.9 of the rulebook mentions under "Defeated"  that when an enemy is defeated (doesn't specify which type, so let's assume all of them), that enemy's card and any wound tokens on it are discarded.

From what i'm reading so far, it appears that nemesis enemy cards would be discarded in the enemy discard pile. Also don't forget that in WHQ, the mention of nemesis enemies retreating to their lair upon defeat (Odious Grump if i remember well) was printed on the quest sheet as a special scenario effect. I don't think this is the case with the Splig scenario (please forgive me if i'm wrong). The WHQ rule book still didn't mention anything about how to handle defeated nemeses, except perhaps those coming from the campaign pool, which would then be put back in the box.

So unless proven otherwise by the designers, i daresay that discarding the nemesis enemy card in the enemy discard pile could be our safest assumption.

Feel free to correct me if i assume too much ?

How do you then proceed if you roll the nemesis icon on the black dice if the nemesis is in the discard pile?

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9 hours ago, Jurcccy said:

How do you then proceed if you roll the nemesis icon on the black dice if the nemesis is in the discard pile?

Page 6 of the rulebook under threat:

“if one or more threat results is rolled, the active hero resolves all threat effects on quest cards, faceup cards in play, and faceup cards in the nemesis lair”

So if the nemesis is in the discard pile, or unrevealed after shuffling a new enemy deck, no effect would be triggered.

Edited by Lipm

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4 hours ago, Lipm said:

So is the nemesis is in the discard pile, or unrevealed after shuffling a new enemy deck, no effect would be triggered.

5 hours ago, Jurcccy said:

How do you then proceed if you roll the nemesis icon on the black dice if the nemesis is in the discard pile?

That's an interesting point.

Perhaps in that case you would ignore all threat results until the nemesis (hopefully doesn't) comes back into play, unless of course another card in play has threat effects as well.

Edited by Shirys

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9 hours ago, Lipm said:

So if the nemesis is in the discard pile, or unrevealed after shuffling a new enemy deck, no effect would be triggered.

Don't forget that the entry on pg. 11 under Nemesis states "Enemies with the Nemesis trait are not shuffled into the enemy deck, but are instead placed next to the quest sheet in the nemesis lair." By this I assume that in the event that the enemy discard is shuffled to create a new enemy deck, defeated Nemeses would be removed to the nemesis lair and thus can be respawned (and threats reactivated) from there.

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Actually, you’re right and this changes things from what I had thought.

When I read this is the rulebook my mind only went to setup. However there’s no clear indication that this doesn’t also apply to when reshuffling the enemy deck after it runs out.

As a straight reading of the rules, if a nemesis is defeated it is moved to the discard pile. However, it the enemy deck runs out and you reshuffle it, based on the nemesis rules the nemesis would not be shuffled in, and instead return straight to the nemesis lair.

... this is suddenly a lot less clear than I thought it was haha.

I am definitely looking forward to an FAQ just to clarify this reading of the rules.

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On 11/15/2018 at 7:47 PM, Lipm said:

However, it the enemy deck runs out and you reshuffle it, based on the nemesis rules the nemesis would not be shuffled in, and instead return straight to the nemesis lair.

This makes total sense.

Thanks for pointing this out :)

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12 hours ago, tibia said:

On Facebook a person said that a defeated Nemesis is out-of-the-game and the Sadlers didn't say anything about this interpretation of the rules

Apparently they aren't allowed to provide any clarity until FFG can roll out a FAQ. I get why, but in the mean time silence on a topic doesn't equal confirmation (or otherwise). Good catch though, Tibia!

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So how is everyone handling this right now? Is it possible for a Nemesis to have its own Nemesis discard pile?

The way I handle it is similar to how Robots handles it. When a Nemesis is defeated, it is discarded to the enemy discard pile. This would prevent the threats from getting triggered. However when the enemy deck runs out and the discarded cards are reshuffled, then the Nemesis would be put back in its lair. So then threats will be triggered again and the Nemesis will be able to engage the heroes as well. This kind of makes sense thematically for me as well. If you take too long to finish the quest after defeating the Nemesis, it will show up again. Also, Splig specifically isn't dead after you defeat him. After winning the Goblin Problem quest, if you read the Victory flavor text/story, you will see that Splig is still alive and is calling his troops back.

Edited by Finch204

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Hello friends,

It is my first time playing and i have one doubt.

I explored  and got this card: "Sudden Move". It says that: "the readied enemy with the highest difficulty activates and then readies".

At this moment i have no enemies engaged or in the shadow. They were all defeated. But i do have Splig in his lair. Do i have to bring him to be engaged with the active hero or he does not count as a readied enemy?

Thank you!

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6 hours ago, JuniorDRU said:

Hello friends,

It is my first time playing and i have one doubt.

I explored  and got this card: "Sudden Move". It says that: "the readied enemy with the highest difficulty activates and then readies".

At this moment i have no enemies engaged or in the shadow. They were all defeated. But i do have Splig in his lair. Do i have to bring him to be engaged with the active hero or he does not count as a readied enemy?

Thank you!

I drew that card and didnt understand it either....for a different reason.

 

I just did  not understand-  "the readied enemy with the highest difficulty activates and then readies"

 

Does it mean, the 'active (none exhausted) enemy with highest difficulty takes an turn and then readies itself again so it can still go in the enemy phase?

 

Edited by VAYASAN

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2 hours ago, VAYASAN said:

I drew that card and didnt understand it either....for a different reason.

 

I just did  not understand-  "the readied enemy with the highest difficulty activates and then readies"

 

Does it mean, the 'active (none exhausted) enemy with highest difficulty takes an turn and then readies itself again so it can still go in the enemy phase?

 

I would answer: YES 🙂

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9 hours ago, JuniorDRU said:

Hello friends,

It is my first time playing and i have one doubt.

I explored  and got this card: "Sudden Move". It says that: "the readied enemy with the highest difficulty activates and then readies".

At this moment i have no enemies engaged or in the shadow. They were all defeated. But i do have Splig in his lair. Do i have to bring him to be engaged with the active hero or he does not count as a readied enemy?

Thank you!

If he's in the lair, he's not readied.

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On 11/27/2018 at 8:50 AM, Finch204 said:

If you take too long to finish the quest after defeating the Nemesis, it will show up again. 

What if the Nemesis ends up face down in the Shadows. He was previously defeated but the players can't know that he's back in play. 

 

Does he count as defeated for victory purposes? 

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