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tgall

A request for a slight Rule modification for Terrain

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At worlds there was a point in the pivotal and very exciting final championship where the finer point of entry/exit of terrain came up. 

Simply if you're already on contact with terrain at the start of your activation, you can't just march or shift into it. See 18 and 81 in the RRG especially focus on the collision bit. 

Perhaps I might be speaking into the void but I think this is something that FFG should reconsider for the purposes of the rules. I think you should be able to shift into or march into terrain, ie willfully collide with terrain you are already in contact with. Yes this might trigger more game effects like those for the bone pit, but I think in the grand scheme the game would be in a better place. As it is now, a player isn't left with a lot of options that will generally be slow/painful for a turn or two before the unit might be able to recover. In an 8 turn game, that's a fairly high price to pay. 

On the positive side, for this kind of change, I think it introduces more strategy around terrain and it's use. I think that is a VERY good thing. It adds to Seasoned Pathfinder & Scouts and certainly could be value to similar abilities for future factions/units and their upgrades.

Something to thinking about / debate. 

 

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I think the majority of us have played it wrong. But the question is, is it better game balance as written? Certainly removes some scuttling horror pain points.   If you know that you will have to plan accordingly. Where I see issue is you charge a unit in terrain, kill them, and now you either have to shift away or reform in lieu of going into terrain.

 

But it also would make terrain occupancy more defensive because you need to think twice before charging into it as you may spend 2 turns after getting around or into it.

 

I think we need to think through more examples of pros/cons either way. Or even play a few games with how it was ruled.

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Yeah, that rulng was a surprise to me, but I haven't weighed the pros and cons yet. I've just logged it away as, "Good to know," and haven't thought about the negative impacts on the game.

My biggest problem is the fluff: your telling me that I can't move into terrain I'm touching, but I have to run and jump into it? That feels weird.

I do like that it keeps the rules clean as far as collisions go. You can't charge a unit you are engaged with, so you obviously can't collide into terrain you are touching - therefore you can't enter it. They could easily rewrite that rule, but like @natertot said, I haven't decided whether they should or not.

Edited by Parakitor

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I would like a reworking on the rules for exiting terrain. It is the only thing that really gives me rage moments in the game. The fact that you can put a millimeter of your trays back edge touching the edge of the terrain never has sat well with me.

The xwing barrel roll was abusable and they changed it to be more limited on how much free movement you get. I think it should be done here as well.

Simply add a clause that says 'you must place the unit touching the terrain between the two most central connectors on the edge of your units trays.' A single tray suffers little for it, but larger units don't get massive free movement and positioning. Exiting terrain should be a negative, not a bonus.

Just my 2 cents, sorry if I'm derailing your thread tgall.

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2 hours ago, Parakitor said:

My biggest problem is the fluff: your telling me that I can't move into terrain in touching, but I have to run and jump into it? That feels weird

This is my problem with it as well.  If I kill a unit, now I have to jump away to enter in.  Oathsworn and thier lack of shift just makes that so painful.

Otherwise I feel like I need to play more to get a feel for it.  

2 hours ago, Jukey said:

you must place the unit touching the terrain between the two most central connectors on the edge of your units trays

Yeah adding a center line to the trays would be nice for that.

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55.3 If a unit would overlap an obstacle while moving, that unit’s movement is halted. Then, the unit slides backward along the movement template until it is touching the obstacle, but not overlapping it. The unit collides with that obstacle.

This pretty clearly provides an alternative way to get a collision. Pretty sure Brooks was just wrong.

It would be a very bad rule if it were otherwise. Further polarize the use of terrain between units with additional mobility options and those without, very gamey and counter-intuitive.

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1 hour ago, Bhelliom said:

55.3 If a unit would overlap an obstacle while moving, that unit’s movement is halted. Then, the unit slides backward along the movement template until it is touching the obstacle, but not overlapping it. The unit collides with that obstacle.

This pretty clearly provides an alternative way to get a collision. Pretty sure Brooks was just wrong.

It would be a very bad rule if it were otherwise. Further polarize the use of terrain between units with additional mobility options and those without, very gamey and counter-intuitive.

Aren't enemy units obstacles? Doesn't this allow you to gain another collision if you dial in a charge while engaged?  I doubt we want that?

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28 minutes ago, Glucose98 said:

Aren't enemy units obstacles? Doesn't this allow you to gain another collision if you dial in a charge while engaged?  I doubt we want that?

It would, except that the march is canceled if you reveal it while engaged (47.2). 

For shifting while engaged, you can either reposition or disengage (73.2). Neither of these allow you to overlap the engaged unit, so Bhelliom's posted rule still holds up.

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Yeah I agree that the ruling was off.  Overlapping is the key issue that was missed, like Bhelliom mentioned. 

One of the comments concerning destroying an enemy occupying terrain made me think that it would be a cool option to be allowed to enter the terrain the unit was occupying if you destroyed it.  Gives some incentive to tackling a unit inside of terrain and seems thematic enough.  The battle begins at the edge of the terrain and your forces batter them into the terrain.  Gives some strategic benefits to charging that terrain as well (if you can overcome it's occupant).

Edited by Steel82

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