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Day 2 Coverage of the Mynock Open Starts at 10 am PACIFIC

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Summary of Top 20:

Lots of Imperial and Scum, but only 3 (15%) Rebel lists.

Only three large ships in the Top 20: two Lambda Shuttles (Kagi and Sai) and a Scum-Falcon (Han)

The most represented limited pilots appear to be Redline, Whisper, Fel, Boba, Palob, Fenn, and L3-37 (Shuttle).

The most popular upgrades include Juke, Darth Vader (Crew), Collision Detector, Barrage Rockets, Proton Torpedoes/Bombs, Traj Simulator, Moldy Crow, Han (Scum Gunner), Marauder, 0-0-0, IG-88D, Tactical Officer, and Seismic Charges

Nice Surprises: there's a Brobots list and A-Wings appear in a Rebel "swarm" list.


Ships that I don't see represented at all include:
Rebel: Y-Wing, E-Wing, B-Wing, U-Wing, K-Wing, Captured TIE, Auzituck, HWK, YT-1300, YT-2400, VCX-100
Imperial: TIE/D, TAP, Decimator
Scum: Khiraxz, Scyk, Kimogila, Scurrg, YV-666, JM5000, Lancer

This means the majority of ship types for Imperials have placed in the Top 20 (great diversity), about half of the available ship-types for Scum, but only a minority of the Rebel line-up is represented.

Edited by AllWingsStandyingBy

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15 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Summary of Top 20:

Lots of Imperial and Scum, but only 3 (15%) Rebel lists.

Only three large ships in the Top 20: two Lambda Shuttles (Kagi and Sai) and a Scum-Falcon (Han)

The most represented limited pilots appear to be Redline, Whisper, Fel, Boba, Palob, Fenn, and L3-37 (Shuttle).

The most popular upgrades include Juke, Darth Vader (Crew), Collision Detector, Barrage Rockets, Proton Torpedoes/Bombs, Traj Simulator, Moldy Crow, Han (Scum Gunner), Marauder, 0-0-0, IG-88D, Tactical Officer, and Seismic Charges

Nice Surprises: there's a Brobots list and A-Wings appear in a Rebel "swarm" list.


Ships that I don't see represented at all include:
Rebel: Y-Wing, E-Wing, B-Wing, U-Wing, K-Wing, Captured TIE, Auzituck, HWK, YT-1300, YT-2400, VCX-100
Imperial: TIE/D, TAP, Decimator
Scum: Khiraxz, Scyk, Kimogila, Scurrg, YV-666, JM5000, Lancer

This means the majority of ship types for Imperials have placed in the Top 20 (great diversity), about half of the available ship-types for Scum, but only a minority of the Rebel line-up is represented.

 

4 hours ago, wurms said:

Thanks for the stats, they are always awesome!

Do you have the top cut lists somewhere? In the docs there are the lists of all players, but I don't know who made the cut...

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What can be done to balance Rebels?

Imperials obviously have decent internal balance if most of their ships had representation after the cut.

Scum have a few ships lacking in ability.

But for Rebels, the faction is a dud. I'm not sure a simple points reduction can save the faction, as one of their best weapons, Proton Torps, are undercosted.

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48 minutes ago, Porkchop Express said:

But for Rebels, the faction is a dud. I'm not sure a simple points reduction can save the faction, as one of their best weapons, Proton Torps, are undercosted.


They are the faction of mediocre agility low maneuverability ("MALM") jousters, turrets, and regen in an edition where turrets and regen have been nuked into unplayability.

This only really leaves the faction with the MALM jousters, and these are indeed the ships we saw in those three lists in the Top 2 (Z-95s, A-Wing Blockers, Sabine, and Luke).   And this archetype is always vulnerable to both aces and control, which comprises a lot of what makes up the Top of the field (Whisper, Fel, Fenn, Boba, Guri and such as the "aces," with bombs, Sloane, Palob, 0-0-0, 4-LOM, Spacetugs, and Ion/Tractor brobots as the "control.")

I don't know how to help Rebels, other than bringing turrets back (since so many of their ships are paying that turret tax, like half of their line-up... and all ships that were not present in the Top 20).  It doesn't do them any favors that most of their ships are boring and lack an onboard ability while the vast majority of their crew are "meh" at best ... these things can't be changed at this point, and there's only so much lowering point-costs can do.  Lower costs enough and it might start getting this stuff to the table, but it's not going to make the Rebels any more fun or flashy to play...

?

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1 hour ago, Porkchop Express said:

What can be done to balance Rebels?

Imperials obviously have decent internal balance if most of their ships had representation after the cut.

Scum have a few ships lacking in ability.

But for Rebels, the faction is a dud. I'm not sure a simple points reduction can save the faction, as one of their best weapons, Proton Torps, are undercosted.

Cheaper and better torpedoes, missiles, turrets and cannons? Proton Torpedoes are fine, but make the others cheaper. The four main Rebel ships, XYBA, are at least partially defined by their weapon slot, so provide a solid and balanced buffet of options. For starters, give us a 1-2 point discount on all weapons except Proton Torpedoes and Homing Missiles. Then, provide a cannon that makes sense on a 3-dice carrier like the B-Wing. And bring back Cruise Missiles!

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5 minutes ago, Okapi said:

Cheaper and better torpedoes, missiles, turrets and cannons? Proton Torpedoes are fine, but make the others cheaper. The four main Rebel ships, XYBA, are at least partially defined by their weapon slot, so provide a solid and balanced buffet of options. For starters, give us a 1-2 point discount on all weapons except Proton Torpedoes and Homing Missiles. Then, provide a cannon that makes sense on a 3-dice carrier like the B-Wing. And bring back Cruise Missiles!

The problem with making secondary weapons better is every other faction can use them too. So if you bump them for rebels other factions might get a monster out of it. I hate to say it but I think to save rebels they need some better defence somehow, they have decent attacking ships but the problem is the ones that hit hard die too easy or are so points inefficient that you can’t support them. Lower costs will help and then maybe get some regen buffs for rebels only. Not sure really but the rebels are true underdogs in 2.0.

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1 minute ago, LordFajubi said:

The problem with making secondary weapons better is every other faction can use them too. So if you bump them for rebels other factions might get a monster out of it. I hate to say it but I think to save rebels they need some better defence somehow, they have decent attacking ships but the problem is the ones that hit hard die too easy or are so points inefficient that you can’t support them. Lower costs will help and then maybe get some regen buffs for rebels only. Not sure really but the rebels are true underdogs in 2.0.

True, but look at the carriers. Missile carriers? The Kihraxz, v1 and x1 are hardly setting the game on fire, so they could use a little boost as well. Torpedoes? Well, there's the Fang, but you want to keep it relatively cheap and get in close. Redline wants to keep using the hardest hitting weapon in the game, so giving him access to a discounted Ion Torpedo will hardly change much. Generic Bombers will stick with Barrage Rockets, but the aces could actually use some options.

As for cannons, there's Lambdas, which you want as cheap as possible, Defenders, which are hideously expensive already, and Scyks, which honestly could use a boost. And finally turrets: Besides Palob and the occasional Y-Wing, do secondary turrets even see play?

With more hardpoint options I think not only the Rebel mainstays benefit, but also a whole slew of less popular Scum and Empire ships might see more table time. 

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10 minutes ago, LordFajubi said:

The problem with making secondary weapons better is every other faction can use them too. So if you bump them for rebels other factions might get a monster out of it. I hate to say it but I think to save rebels they need some better defence somehow, they have decent attacking ships but the problem is the ones that hit hard die too easy or are so points inefficient that you can’t support them. Lower costs will help and then maybe get some regen buffs for rebels only. Not sure really but the rebels are true underdogs in 2.0.

I think Okapi was talking about a Rebel's only discount...

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2 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

I think Okapi was talking about a Rebel's only discount...

No, I was thinking in general terms. I think most secondary weapons carriers are slightly subpar at the moment and could use a little boost, either in the form of a ship discount, or better weapon options.

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16 minutes ago, LordFajubi said:

The problem with making secondary weapons better is every other faction can use them too. So if you bump them for rebels other factions might get a monster out of it. 

If Proton Torpedoes became available for the x1 specifically Darth Vader would become a monster. Yes please.

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22 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Summary of Top 20:

Ships that I don't see represented at all include:
Rebel: Y-Wing, E-Wing, B-Wing, U-Wing, K-Wing, Captured TIE, Auzituck, HWK, YT-1300, YT-2400, VCX-100
Imperial: TIE/D, TAP, Decimator
Scum: Khiraxz, Scyk, Kimogila, Scurrg, YV-666, JM5000, Lancer
 

Anyone think TIE Defenders will get a points decrease in January?

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38 minutes ago, Shockley said:

Anyone think TIE Defenders will get a points decrease in January?


I dunno, it's a wonderfully powerful ship.  Great defense and bulk, with good hitting power.  It's maneuverability also means it doesn't suffer from the same problems/challenges facing the other (e.g. Rebel) jousters.

The real reason you don't see the TIE/D much competitively isn't because it's over-costed, but that other Imperial options are ridiculously undercosted (e.g. Whisper, Redline, etc.).  So you tend to see those ships instead of TIE/Ds.

Edited by AllWingsStandyingBy

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I was at the M.Open and from what I saw and experienced, was that at the moment, the Rebels don't have quite as good options for secondary effects getting triggered.

  • Redline gets an auto Lock for every action.
  • Whisper gets an auto evade for decloak & successful hits.
  • Boba w/Marauder title Han Gunner + Perceptive Co-pilot gets modded re-rolls+Focus (an stress).

Rebels can build lists that are efficient for a Rebel, but they're outmatched in efficiency by the other factions.

A new Rebel only crew might help, and so would some cost adjustments on ship chassis' but not on upgrades per se.

As a Rebel player, a four or five point reduction in a given list would have gone a long way to help me out. I could have upgraded my astromech or fit in a bomb/missile or torpedo or hull upgrade.

If you reduced rebel ships by one point across the board, you'd get that extra 3-5 points there. Granted, a few specific ships maybe shouldn't be eligible, as they are cheap enough already so maybe limit the discounts to ships/pilots with an Initiative greater than 2.

Certainly the E-wing, Auzituk and Reb Falcon could use a points diet.

Edited by Force Majeure

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The hard thing with Rebel synergy is that, for the most part (not always), the abilities are geared towards helping 1 other friendly ship. So, 2 ships have to be taken for 1 of those ships to get full/consistent mods.

Other factions have ships that can buff a whole swarm at once, or they have ships that have great action economy all by themselves (Boba, Redline). Rebels have to build a specific type of list and then play well to execute their synergy strategy. It is kind of like they wanted all factions to have at least some ways for ships to access multiple mods/actions per turn, and other factions have it built into their ships/upgrades, while Rebels have it built into pilot abilities (for the most part). 

I am sure with points readjustments and re-releases Rebels will get more crew and other upgrades and pilots to help them along. And they can still do decent right now, just not on the top of the heap is all. 

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