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Day 2 Coverage of the Mynock Open Starts at 10 am PACIFIC

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3 minutes ago, HanScottFirst said:

It is kind of like they wanted all factions to have at least some ways for ships to access multiple mods/actions per turn, and other factions have it built into their ships/upgrades, while Rebels have it built into pilot abilities (for the most part). 

I'm curious as to your examples for Scum, other than the reduced defense from Quadjumpers, of what you outlining being built into the ships themselves. I play Scum and outside the pilot abilities on 3 pilots and the Quad I'm not seeing what you're pushing...

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Good decent force crew/gunners would be a start for Rebels. Ezra is garbage and overcosted, Luke is ridiculous and unplayable, Kanan is not important right now in a non stress dealing world other than Sloane, and Maul is useless and needs overcosted crap card like Ezra.

Better crew is going to open up those large base ships for rebels. They have a lot of them but nothing to run with them

Meanwhile imperials have ******* Vader crew that is like a range 2 Old Teroch ability, 7th Sister that is an anti linked action to get range 1 of me ability, and Grand Inquisitor, which expensive, is still cheaper and better than most rebel force crew/gunner.

Now, top that off with multiple imperial ships getting free evades just for exisiting, allowing the focus to be used for offense, and the efficiency is through the roof compared to rebels.

Rebel are all about synergy and that is crap in a tourney setting when **** aint broke anymore (Fenn,Low,Biggs), and now your locking ship is destroyed your entire squads offensive efficiency is down the toilet.

Luke can take care of himself, so thats why he is seen everywhere. Sabine with debris gambit essentially is getting the free evade like imperial ships, so thats why that ship is everywhere. Moldy crow is the best upgrade so rebels should be flying hwks, hence that ships popularity. Norra gets free evades for herself at range 1. Its all the self sufficient ships that get played. Rebels have the fewest of those ships, so half their faction doesnt get played in tourneys.

I think force crew/gunner for rebels needs a drastic point change. Kanan should be 11pts comparable to 7th sister but slightly worse. Ezra should be 14pts. He has a double tap potential and will open up Maul and dark side abilities, so gotta be cautious. Luke gunner should leave the game, but if they want him to be mayabe a tad playable, make him 20pts. I dont see a big difference in Grand Inqy on RAC at 16pts able to adjust a turret when the last ship within range 2 moves but gives you a stress, and Luke you can do it stress free.

I dont think Rebels are garabage, they just dont have the diversity and are basically a one trick pony right now.

Edited by wurms

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An interesting point to be made from the data is of higher initiative pilots still being undervalued. 

 

If every init 6 pilot saw a 6 point increase, and every init 5 pilot saw a 4 point increase, the cream of the crop would still see play, right?

 

I was really hopeful that generics would get a healthy bump in 2.0, but that just doesn’t seem to be the case as they still don’t seem to be able to match the value of the high init named pilots.

Edited by Kdubb

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The culprits are all unlearned lessons.  We know that 1.0 spun out of hand with the proliferation of multi-modded dice and bonus positional actions, and that's exactly the sort of content we have with Redline, Whisper, Boba, and coordinate.

Only 1 Rebel squad made Day 2, but I don't think we should be talking about making them better.  FFG should target the 1.0 elements, by raising points and/or stripping slots off of the Imperial and Scum 1.0-style offenders.

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Also notable, Mynocks are bad. 

Weren't like, ALL of them there, and Krayts finished on top on top of all of them?  I think Steven Gonzales is the only decent player they have and only one to make cut, but Bunn and @Brunas both finished higher on their home field.

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25 minutes ago, AgencyBurglar said:

Also notable, Mynocks are bad. 

Weren't like, ALL of them there, and Krayts finished on top on top of all of them?  I think Steven Gonzales is the only decent player they have and only one to make cut, but Bunn and @Brunas both finished higher on their home field.

A good majority of them were running the event, not playing in it. That's an unfair assumption.

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17 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:


I dunno, it's a wonderfully powerful ship.  Great defense and bulk, with good hitting power.  It's maneuverability also means it doesn't suffer from the same problems/challenges facing the other (e.g. Rebel) jousters.

The real reason you don't see the TIE/D much competitively isn't because it's over-costed, but that other Imperial options are ridiculously undercosted (e.g. Whisper, Redline, etc.).  So you tend to see those ships instead of TIE/Ds.

That is what I am hoping. Defenders seem to be costed right and I have had some luck locally with them. I'm pushing hard with a Rexler, Fel, Sai list that I am hoping can do great things after the Great Nerf of January 2019, right before a local Wave Championship.

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2 minutes ago, Zircon said:

000

Is the Calculate token that big of a concern to you that you take the stress? 0-0-0 is the worst way to give an opponent stress. Tractor Beam into debris/junk works allot better and is just as situational...

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4 minutes ago, Zircon said:

my point is that all other faction now have ez way to give stress.  Rebel has none

Empire and Rebels have heavy Bombers with reload, Scum doesn't. Rebels and Scum have Swarm ships with shields, Empire doesn't (These also count for dirt cheap missile carriers. A homing missile swarm of Bandits or Binyare can give Imperial aces fits). Rebels and Empire have access to White Coordinate without taking a limited pilot, Scum doesn't. Rebels and Empire have multiple Force pilots, Scum has 1. Rebels and Empire have access to SLAM, Scum doesn't. Do I really need to go on...

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On ‎11‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 10:58 AM, Okapi said:

Cheaper and better torpedoes, missiles, turrets and cannons? Proton Torpedoes are fine, but make the others cheaper. The four main Rebel ships, XYBA, are at least partially defined by their weapon slot, so provide a solid and balanced buffet of options. For starters, give us a 1-2 point discount on all weapons except Proton Torpedoes and Homing Missiles. Then, provide a cannon that makes sense on a 3-dice carrier like the B-Wing. And bring back Cruise Missiles!

Yeah I'm of this mindset. I think selectively lowering ordinance and cannon point costs on rebel platforms specifically would make them a better faction overall, and also further differentiate the rebel faction play style (and is also thematic too).

What if HLC was free on B-wings? What Ion torps were only 1-2 points on rebel Y-wings?

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2 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Empire and Rebels have heavy Bombers with reload, Scum doesn't. Rebels and Scum have Swarm ships with shields, Empire doesn't (These also count for dirt cheap missile carriers. A homing missile swarm of Bandits or Binyare can give Imperial aces fits). Rebels and Empire have access to White Coordinate without taking a limited pilot, Scum doesn't. Rebels and Empire have multiple Force pilots, Scum has 1. Rebels and Empire have access to SLAM, Scum doesn't. Do I really need to go on...

General feeling is that v2.0 is hard on the Rebel faction.  

I don't need a list of ''who can what cant' who do what''.   

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1 minute ago, Zircon said:

General feeling is that v2.0 is hard on the Rebel faction.

This I can agree with. Transitioning from near infinite regen and stress locking of 1.0 Rebels to the 2.0 supporting the guy in front is a big change...

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1 hour ago, Hiemfire said:

This I can agree with. Transitioning from near infinite regen and stress locking of 1.0 Rebels to the 2.0 supporting the guy in front is a big change...

Especially as in 1.0 they wete really good at regen and stress locking. In 2.0 they are mediocre at supporting the guy in front.

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1 minute ago, Porkchop Express said:

Especially as in 1.0 they wete really good at regen and stress locking. In 2.0 they are mediocre at supporting the guy in front.

If you look, allot of the pilot/upgrade abilities either center around being the front man, freeing up actions on the front man, pulling damage off of the front man, or making it easier for the front man to nuke down a target. It is a huge change from 1.0 and in my opinion not the best way to have taken the faction...

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2 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

Is the Calculate token that big of a concern to you that you take the stress? 0-0-0 is the worst way to give an opponent stress. Tractor Beam into debris/junk works allot better and is just as situational...

I didn't use it so much for stress control but kept Palob at full focus stack for defense. As long as he has one, he's not as much fun to shoot at...

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3 hours ago, Zircon said:

Bring back Stress Bot!!

 

Rebels no longer have any ability to stress their opponent : they use to have stress bot + Tactician.  Now other faction can stress the **** out of you:  000, 4-LOM, etc

Wretched idea.  0-0-0 and most 2.0 stressing mechanics are centered around weighing choices.  4-LOM is an exception, but as the Mynock Open demonstrated, just burn him down.

It's growing abundantly clear that Rebels are the weakest faction, but bringing back 1.0 contamination like R3-A2 and Tactician is not the answer.  The way forward is to remove the 1.0 combo-wing elements that survived into 2.0 Imperial and Scum.

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22 hours ago, Zircon said:

Bring back Stress Bot!!

 

Rebels no longer have any ability to stress their opponent : they use to have stress bot + Tactician.  Now other faction can stress the **** out of you:  000, 4-LOM, etc


Don't forget Sloane, who stresses you for killing the enemy's ships, something you cannot avoid if you want to win an X-Wing game!

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On 11/5/2018 at 3:04 PM, Kdubb said:

An interesting point to be made from the data is of higher initiative pilots still being undervalued. 

 

If every init 6 pilot saw a 6 point increase, and every init 5 pilot saw a 4 point increase, the cream of the crop would still see play, right?

 

I was really hopeful that generics would get a healthy bump in 2.0, but that just doesn’t seem to be the case as they still don’t seem to be able to match the value of the high init named pilots.

Oh my force, THIS!  It's apparently PS5+ or Gunrunners which is a real shame.  But don't hurt Wedge anymore.  He's already awful.

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On 11/5/2018 at 9:04 PM, Kdubb said:

An interesting point to be made from the data is of higher initiative pilots still being undervalued. 

 

If every init 6 pilot saw a 6 point increase, and every init 5 pilot saw a 4 point increase, the cream of the crop would still see play, right?

 

I was really hopeful that generics would get a healthy bump in 2.0, but that just doesn’t seem to be the case as they still don’t seem to be able to match the value of the high init named pilots.

Sorry but this undifferentiated point changing makes no sense at all.

Because we do see lots of generics in 2.0 We see Quadjumpers, TIE-Bombers, Z-95s, Tie Fighters (and others) in a lot of lists.

Especially for something like Quadjumpers, where most agree that they are already too cheap, you want to make them cheaper?

Also we don’t see a good part of the I5-6 pilots that you wanna bump up in cost either. Have you seen Rebel Fenn Rau? Or Duchess, Rexler, Serissu, Mauler Mithel, Corran Horn? The complete list would be really exhaustive...

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On 11/6/2018 at 6:32 PM, Hiemfire said:

This I can agree with. Transitioning from near infinite regen and stress locking of 1.0 Rebels to the 2.0 supporting the guy in front is a big change...

It would be fine if they were the mutual support faction if that would actually do any good for them!

Most of their ships just do not benefit from additional support in form of actions. as well as other factions.

For instance, low Agility ships don’t benefit from defensive focus or evades in the same way high Agi ships do. And an overwhelming number of their ships are low Agility.

Low to mid PS ships don’t benefit well from additional movement options in the same way as high initiative ships do. And lots of their ships don’t have anything over I4.

They also are very action inefficient even with their support ships. It speaks for itself that everyone plays Sabine, which is one of the only action selfsufficient ships in the faction for a decent cost.

None of their aces have good options for this, except maybe Luke. And that is a big deal no matter how you turn it.

Mutual support with formation flying is more difficult to pull off than just having built in Efficiency. Other factions have that, Rebels don’t.

And if this is intended and they should not have this type of ships and pilots, you need to make their actual intended faction identity more playable... whatever that intention may be. Because at the moment, i find it pretty unclear what that is.

It’s not crippled regen or turrets, bombs or Fat Large bases anymore, nor Mutual support that is worse than actual Selfbuffing in other factions!

Heck even control and firepower’s buffing is much better in scum with Drea and Gunrunners. Sai supports Aces better than any Rebel ship ever could. Mainly because Imps have Aces worth supporting at reasonal prices...

They’re really hosed right now, and there is no easy way to fix them i can see.

Edited by ForceM

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Like I said, Rebels seem to be built around keeping the list builder's front man up and hitting hard. They fall apart because the enemy can decide to ignore and avoid the front man to kill the ones boosting them (as Phelan Boots clarified and I thought was implied in my statement previously). There are synergies there (more than Scum has, though Scum has theirs divided over fewer pilots...) and they can be potent, IF you can force the opponent to play to your strength. They don't have an easy way to do that though, and they would be extremely overpowered if they did... Bad faction design in my opinion...

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