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Minimono

And tlt is?

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I think a lot of posters here are missing the really bad part of TLTs design I.e. Rendering dice superfluous. In a normal attack, if the attaker scores 3 hits, the amount of evades the defender rolls and how they spend to modify are relevant and engaging factors. If a TLT scored 3 hits, most of the game doesn't bother rolling defense dice. Any number of evades less than 3 are irrelevant. Rolling perfect on defense with an AGL 2 ship doesn't matter and you might as well have just not bothered. In short, the completely binary nature of TLTs (made worse by how heavily modified they could be) turned an otherwise engaging 2 player experience into 1 player just telling the other to take damage...and then you do it again. This complete lack on engagement or meaningful decisions is also why I'm not a fan of things like Vader crew. Oh, sweet, I get to choose between taking a damage or losing a green token, but you also have Juke, so that option also equals taking 1 damage. Well I'm glad one of us is participating in this game.

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Vader atleast is arc bound and can be dodged, also its R0-2 so it can be outranged.

TLT could not be avoided unless you managed to dive into their face, which wasnt easy to do unless you got shot the last turn already. Its issue wasnt making dice superfluous, its issue was it was completely unavoidable barring the attacker rolling like crap since ONLY the hyper evasive ships could even attempt to dodge it or chase its deadzone to avoid the shot.

Like i said earlier, i dont see it being as big of an issue with arc limitations being a thing. Still a threat, not a practical auto-win threat.

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4 hours ago, KryatDragon said:

It was a foul and loathsome curse placed upon X-Wing 1.0 that was only eclipsed in sheer NPE derpitude by the Harpoon Missile.

May both never return to X-wing ever.

 

People forget that these secondary weapons were designed to break up the meta. TLT was made to punch through those ships that were both mobile enough to dodge arcs and had the ability to negate 2 hits a round. Then TLT was beaten by the Aztec's and their damage sharing options. So Harpoon missiles came which were way better at breaking close flying group formations than assault missiles with their AOE.

Everyone calls these cards the cancer, but the real cancer was power creep. Hindsight is always 20/20, if I were to redesign TLT I would try and split up the card. The turret will be only a 4 dice attack that does 1 damage, the 2 attack 3 dice would be maybe a cannon, or a missile/torp. Anyways it is not in the game yet, and it is likely if we see it again it will take on a much different form than its 1st edition one, just like HLC.

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2 hours ago, Marinealver said:

People forget that these secondary weapons were designed to break up the meta. TLT was made to punch through those ships that were both mobile enough to dodge arcs and had the ability to negate 2 hits a round. Then TLT was beaten by the Aztec's and their damage sharing options. So Harpoon missiles came which were way better at breaking close flying group formations than assault missiles with their AOE.

The other problem to those meta-shakeup cards, was that ships that were’t a problem almost always suffered from it.  When TLT came out as a way to counter Evade-stacking big ships, B-Wings practically fell off the table and the Punisher, released at the same time as TLT, was dead on arrival.  The only ships that could reliably hold their own against TLTs, were ones that front-loaded a huge alpha strike (triple Jumpmasters, which were another problem), or ships that had a decent chance of evading one or two shots from the TLT (3 Agility + Autothrusters).  Harpoon Missiles killed swarm lists effectively, and ruined the game for anyone trying to micro-manage formation flying.  Indeed they were so good that near the end that was the only ordnance anyone would ever see.

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1 hour ago, It’s One Of Ours said:

The other problem to those meta-shakeup cards, was that ships that were’t a problem almost always suffered from it.  When TLT came out as a way to counter Evade-stacking big ships, B-Wings practically fell off the table and the Punisher, released at the same time as TLT, was dead on arrival.  The only ships that could reliably hold their own against TLTs, were ones that front-loaded a huge alpha strike (triple Jumpmasters, which were another problem), or ships that had a decent chance of evading one or two shots from the TLT (3 Agility + Autothrusters).  Harpoon Missiles killed swarm lists effectively, and ruined the game for anyone trying to micro-manage formation flying.  Indeed they were so good that near the end that was the only ordnance anyone would ever see.

Well yeah that is pretty much the definition of power creep. Those that are on the bottom of the dog pile, go down even further. Now Upgrades are a way to pull ships up but another issue was the slot system. You make a modification, every ship gets it. Put it in as a turret to help Y-wings, and K-wings and VCX-100s have a hay-day. At the end you started to see more restrictions on cards such as small-ship only and other things. Still as with TIE Fighters which were originally designed to not use upgrades but instead have different pilot options, the only option to release different pilots. Granted they never made use of a TIE-Fighter title. Still that leaves a no-win situation of adding more points to a ship effectively removing swarms or release auto-include 0 point upgrades.

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