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Minimono

And tlt is?

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On 11/3/2018 at 7:04 PM, Hiemfire said:

And hopefully doesn't return.

On 11/5/2018 at 7:44 PM, Quarrel said:

The original point of the TLT was to be likely to hit but unlikely to cause serious damage. One of its flaws is that it ended up being more lethal vs. low-agility ships than to high ones, especially with Autothrusters in the mix. I think the most straightforward change to achieve that goal is to allow the second attack (vs. the same ship) only if the first misses.

I don't like keeping the range 2-3 though.

I disagree.  Playing a Y-wing with the TLT in 1e doing my HOTAC game, it's not been that overbalancing.  Especially when that 3 die attack is often going against 3 die evade enemies, so the likelyhood of a hit is not a guarantee..  We've played several games now, where in some rounds, EVEN with the 3 attacks he gets on that Y-wing, one main then 2 from the TLT< he still has not caused any damage.  And with it being a 6xp cost to get, compared to other turrets being 3 to 5, i don't see how its out of whak..

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9 minutes ago, LTuser said:

I disagree.  Playing a Y-wing with the TLT in 1e doing my HOTAC game, it's not been that overbalancing.  Especially when that 3 die attack is often going against 3 die evade enemies, so the likelyhood of a hit is not a guarantee..  We've played several games now, where in some rounds, EVEN with the 3 attacks he gets on that Y-wing, one main then 2 from the TLT< he still has not caused any damage.  And with it being a 6xp cost to get, compared to other turrets being 3 to 5, i don't see how its out of whak..

Have your opponent run either of these against a high agility list then assess:

Syndicate Thug (18)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Unhinged Astromech (1)

Syndicate Thug (18)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Unhinged Astromech (1)

Syndicate Thug (18)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Unhinged Astromech (1)

Syndicate Thug (18)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Unhinged Astromech (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Gold Squadron Pilot (18)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
R2 Astromech (1)

Gold Squadron Pilot (18)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
R2 Astromech (1)

Gold Squadron Pilot (18)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
R2 Astromech (1)

Gold Squadron Pilot (18)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
R2 Astromech (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

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33 minutes ago, LTuser said:

I disagree.  Playing a Y-wing with the TLT in 1e doing my HOTAC game, it's not been that overbalancing.  Especially when that 3 die attack is often going against 3 die evade enemies, so the likelyhood of a hit is not a guarantee..  We've played several games now, where in some rounds, EVEN with the 3 attacks he gets on that Y-wing, one main then 2 from the TLT< he still has not caused any damage.  And with it being a 6xp cost to get, compared to other turrets being 3 to 5, i don't see how its out of whak..

Hotac is great but it's not competitive play and the balance is VERY different.

23 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Have your opponent run either of these against a high agility list then assess:

Syndicate Thug (18)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Unhinged Astromech (1)

Syndicate Thug (18)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Unhinged Astromech (1)

Syndicate Thug (18)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Unhinged Astromech (1)

Syndicate Thug (18)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Unhinged Astromech (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Gold Squadron Pilot (18)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
R2 Astromech (1)

Gold Squadron Pilot (18)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
R2 Astromech (1)

Gold Squadron Pilot (18)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
R2 Astromech (1)

Gold Squadron Pilot (18)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
R2 Astromech (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Ghost Fenn or Nym/randa are both way worse.

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1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

Hotac is great but it's not competitive play and the balance is VERY different.

Ghost Fenn or Nym/randa are both way worse.

Not going to get an argument from me over that. They brought up Y-Wings and Thug Lyfe was the first thing that popped into my head. If the player using them keeps formation it's like playing chicken with a bulldozer while driving a Pinto.

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16 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

Not going to get an argument from me over that. They brought up Y-Wings and Thug Lyfe was the first thing that popped into my head. If the player using them keeps formation it's like playing chicken with a bulldozer while driving a Pinto.

It is not a question of arguing or not. 4 Y-Wing or 4 Aggressor was good, but it was never tournament nightmare. Ghost Fenn was for a couple of time, and Nimranda was a nightmare, but TLT was far from the only reason, it was just the icing over the idiot Harpoon + Trajectory simulator.

Talking about them... what is dominating right now... 4 attack dice attack that keep the Lock and Bomb with trajectory simulator... surprise surprise...

TLT was bad because of the over modification of Ghost Fenn.

Right now I take way more then 8 dmg in a turn, without counting that with Bomber Torpedo at init 3, you can easly kill a Y-Wing before it even attack, something that was not possible at the time. And they would be WAY WAY easier to arc dodge on a single arc... If each turn your Init 2 ship loose its action to rotate turret I can garantee you they will do nothing on offence without Lock or Focus

Edited by muribundi

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6 hours ago, LTuser said:

Since i don't DO competitive play, just HOTAC, maybe that's why i don't see it as an issue.

Then just create it on your own for HOTAC.  Don't call for FFG to bring back a broken upgrade which could easily mess up competitive balance, just for use in a 3rd party mod of X-Wing.  DIY a TLT for your own campaigns and call it good.  Just because you don't drink punch, that doesn't mean you can foul the punch bowl.

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it was a crazy reliable turret in 1.0.

Which i dont think would be as broken in 2.0 due to the mobile arc mechanic on every turret now. Its problem in 1.0 was it was not only reliable to hit, it also was virtually impossible to NOT get shot by it on top of its reliability. Now that theres deadzones its easier to dodge.

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6 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Then just create it on your own for HOTAC.  Don't call for FFG to bring back a broken upgrade which could easily mess up competitive balance, just for use in a 3rd party mod of X-Wing.  DIY a TLT for your own campaigns and call it good.  Just because you don't drink punch, that doesn't mean you can foul the punch bowl.

I run 1e HOTAC.  So no need to give it a DIY re-write..

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My thoughts are 3 reds 2-3 range, 2 non-recurring charges. 15 points.

Spend a charge to make a second attack against a different ship in your arc unless your first attack missed then you can attack the same ship. 

Either make it a one (.)  dot or two (..) dot upgrade so you can’t run four in a list. 

Still lethal, but more situational, charge based, and limited to how many you can take in a list.  

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On 11/3/2018 at 3:46 PM, Nspace said:

Twin Laser Turret. A turret from the 1st edition of the game that is not in the 2nd edition.

@Nspace hast it

It was an answer to the high mobility high defense meta at the time. During Wave 5 you had some very maneuverable ships both small and large base with Super Dash, Fat Han, RAC (Rear Admiral Cherenue spelling*), Whisper and Soontir. Both had great maneuverability tanks to Engine Upgrade and Veterans Instincts and both had a way to cancel out 2 hits a round regardless of what the green dice rolled thanks to the likes of C-3PO, Emperor Palpatine, Token stacking of focus and evades.

It was designed to throw out a lot of dice while keeping the damage out put fairly low (max 2 damage), and also had a far reach with range 1 being the blind spot that theoretically could be exploited if played right. Problem is that unlike the outrider, it didn't disable primary weapons leaving range 1 no completely out of harms way. Also due to its consistency in putting out damage it was able to outclass all primary weapons and secondary weapons with the exception of the HLC, wasn't very powerful at that time. The only good counters were what other people would consider even worse and that is regeneration and damage sharing, as the meta cycles back to the Tank Cycle from the Kill Cycle.

Edited by Marinealver

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On 11/5/2018 at 3:42 AM, emeraldbeacon said:

Twin Laser Turret:  single turret arc, attack value 3, range 2-3.  After this attack hits, cancel all dice results, and the defender suffers one (HIT) damage.  You may spend a green token to perform this attack again as a bonus attack against a different target.

I can make that 5 attack with Kavil and Trick Shot.

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1 hour ago, spacelion said:

I can make that 5 attack with Kavil and Trick Shot.

You can but it will still stop at 2 damage. The entire idea of TLT was lots of dice but low damage. Thing is 2 damage an attack was considered a very good attack at that time.

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3 dice, on a hit deal 1 damage then cancel all dice, range 2-3, with single recurring charge that states on a miss spend one charge to perform a bonus attack against the same ship.

 

Now it's limited to one damage per turn, but more reliable.

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On 11/7/2018 at 3:07 PM, Tvboy said:

People are still having a hard time remembering that turrets don't have 360 coverage anymore or range bonus immunity when they are evaluating old cards from 1e like TLT and Dash. 

I can't remember if I've flown against Dash in 2.0, but from my experiences with the Falcon, the switch to mobile arcs hasn't really affected it at all.  It's usually pretty easy to tell where someone could possibly be and just rotate, or for squishy ships like the Interceptor, just blast them at range 3 before they get close enough to shift around effectively. 

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On 11/3/2018 at 4:42 PM, Minimono said:

Alright ... I am biting the bullet... I have read a lot about x-wing since Instarted the day 2.0 game out ... but I have not figured out what TLT means... and seems like everyone else know, so this should be easy to answer? 

It was a foul and loathsome curse placed upon X-Wing 1.0 that was only eclipsed in sheer NPE derpitude by the Harpoon Missile.

May both never return to X-wing ever.

 

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2 minutes ago, KryatDragon said:

It was a foul and loathsome curse placed upon X-Wing 1.0 that was only eclipsed in sheer NPE derpitude by the Harpoon Missile.

May both never return to X-wing ever.

 

What did Harpoon Missiles do?  I don't believe I ever encountered them in our local meta.  

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Harpoon Missile cost the same as Torpedoes (4pts in 1.0), but only required a lock - they did not spend the Lock to fire. So you can use the lock to reroll when you fire (like 2.0 munitions).

The threw 4 red dice at ranges 2-3.
Then they assigned the 'Harpooned!' condition if they hit.

Here's the link to 'Harpooned!' and the text is quoted below.
 

Quote

When you are hit by an attack if there is at least 1 uncanceled critical result, each other ship at Range 1 suffers 1 damage. Then discard this card and receive 1 facedown Damage card.

When you are destroyed, each ship at Range 1 suffers 1 damage.

Action: Discard this card. Then roll 1 attack die. On a hit or critical result, suffer 1 damage.


It replaced all other munitions aside from Prockets. It was cheap, powerful, re-loadable, and the condition is bonkers. Because the crit set off the condition and then you still get a crit that they have to deal with.

3x Starwings with these things could trigger chain insanity. First missile hits, leaves condition, second hits with a crit - triggering condition. Then reapplies condition. And so on...

Edited by KryatDragon

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When harpoons and Trajectory Simulator were coming out, I stopped playing 1.0.  I wouldn't say they directly caused me to quit, but it was proof to me that the game was just getting worse with no real way to salvage it short of a new edition.  Lo and behold, 2.0 was released and I'm back with a vengeance.  I just hope they keep a lid on the junk that put me off the game in 1.0.

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