Jump to content
bblaney001

Rise of the Separtist's release date?

Recommended Posts

Just now, Nytwyng said:

Oh, I did. You had it ignore Poe’s established character, and eliminate his arc in the story.

No but apparently you ignored a new path for character growth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From my point of view, the whole point of Poe making all the mistakes I mentioned earlier are so he can learn and grow. You know, like Yoda tells Luke: Yes. Failure most of all. The greatest teacher, failure is.  Also known as the theme of entire film. Poe has to make bad choices, fail, get people hurt, watch people die, before he finally realizes his job is to preserve the Resistance, so it can continue to fight. Blaming Holdo for Poe's decisions takes away his growth. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

and there you go also ignoring what I said.

Okay. I’ll admit that I did for a bit of hyperbole. My bad. But I have to ask a few simple questions. In your words, what does your version of events look like? How does a better relationship to Holdo and him accepting a menial/busy work task forward or involve Poe in the narrative? How do we get from Poe the reckless fly boy chasing a big kill no matter the cost TO every life matters in the fight against the First Order by the end of the film? What is the arc and how does it last the length of the film? I am honestly curious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

No but apparently you ignored a new path for character growth.

Not at all.

But it’s interesting that, after spending pages wringing hands about how Rey didn’t “earn” any of her development, your ideal scenario for Poe’s story is for him to set aside his desire to be a hero because Holdo gave him a cookie.

As far as asking military personnel for feedback, what’s their stance on dealing with recently demoted insubordinate personnel who get in their face demanding information above their pay grade?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, darthsylar12 said:

Okay. I’ll admit that I did for a bit of hyperbole. My bad. But I have to ask a few simple questions. In your words, what does your version of events look like? How does a better relationship to Holdo and him accepting a menial/busy work task forward or involve Poe in the narrative? How do we get from Poe the reckless fly boy chasing a big kill no matter the cost TO every life matters in the fight against the First Order by the end of the film? What is the arc and how does it last the length of the film? I am honestly curious.

1. it doesnt need to be menial. In fact it probably shouldnt be. and it probably should be pilot related in a way that uses his skills. which is why I said involve him in planning the shuttle escape. It keeps him busy and clues him in on there being a plan. Which addresses the root cause of Poe's acting out.  So Poe is doing that and Finn and Rose come to him with the hyper space tracking issue. and because Poe is not thinking Holdo has no plan he goes to her with the hyperspace tracking info and they come up with a better plan together. Where Poe gets his growth. With out having to sacrifice so much of the resistance to bad writing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

Not at all.

But it’s interesting that, after spending pages wringing hands about how Rey didn’t “earn” any of her development, your ideal scenario for Poe’s story is for him to set aside his desire to be a hero because Holdo gave him a cookie.

As far as asking military personnel for feedback, what’s their stance on dealing with recently demoted insubordinate personnel who get in their face demanding information above their pay grade?

He does not have to in my plan. In fact he gets to be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Daeglan said:

He does not have to in my plan. In fact he gets to be.

So if he gets to be the Big D@mn Hero, then he doesn’t evolve from hotshot glory hound to effective leader. So your ideal scenario involves Holdo placating a subordinate for challenging her authority, with Poe remaining stagnant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does this book have some of the Talents from the prequels? 

INANE PLATITUDES

Activation: Active (Incidental)

Ranked: No

Trees: Stalker, Oversharer

Spend an advantage to simply repeat what the other person just said. The reaction is a positive one and the other person looks at the character as if they are a genius. "It's because I'm in love with you" "No it's because I'm in love with you!"

 

USELESS AUTOMATON

Activation: Passive

Ranked: No

Trees: All

Battle Droids are destroyed and dismantled whenever the character makes a combat check regardless of the result of the check. The radius of this effect is determined by the active character utilizing the talent. 

 

FORCE BLINDNESS

Activation: Passive

Ranked: No

Trees: Emperor, Sith Creep

The character can stand near Jedi, serve them drinks, carpool with Jedi, and hang from the leg of a Jedi in an elevator shaft without the Jedi sensing the true nature of the dark side character. If the dark sider wishes to reveal himself he must flip a Destiny Point and tell the Jedi outright that he is a Sith, as blatant hints and clues will not work. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

1. it doesnt need to be menial. In fact it probably shouldnt be. and it probably should be pilot related in a way that uses his skills. which is why I said involve him in planning the shuttle escape. It keeps him busy and clues him in on there being a plan. Which addresses the root cause of Poe's acting out.  So Poe is doing that and Finn and Rose come to him with the hyper space tracking issue. and because Poe is not thinking Holdo has no plan he goes to her with the hyperspace tracking info and they come up with a better plan together. Where Poe gets his growth. With out having to sacrifice so much of the resistance to bad writing.

I’ll accept that the menial thing is also hyperbole on my part but would be best as it humbles him and may give Por a better look at the big picture. 

But it seems to me that your problem is Poe enacting the mutiny entirely. Part of which was letting Finn and Rose leave the Raddus secretly and thus mean that every time the film cuts back to Poe he is just doing his job. No intrigue, conflict or excitement. I’m sorry but I don’t think I can understand the appeal of this idea as it really removes Agency and Character from Poe. That is my two credits, I could go on but I have better things to do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, darthsylar12 said:

I’ll accept that the menial thing is also hyperbole on my part but would be best as it humbles him and may give Por a better look at the big picture. 

But it seems to me that your problem is Poe enacting the mutiny entirely. Part of which was letting Finn and Rose leave the Raddus secretly and thus mean that every time the film cuts back to Poe he is just doing his job. No intrigue, conflict or excitement. I’m sorry but I don’t think I can understand the appeal of this idea as it really removes Agency and Character from Poe. That is my two credits, I could go on but I have better things to do.

Or you accept that everything forward from that point is different and since it is being rewritten can still have Poe being awesome in some other manner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Or you accept that everything forward from that point is different and since it is being rewritten can still have Poe being awesome in some other manner.

But the point of his arc was to show that his “being awesome” wasn’t always the best use of his talents or what the Resistance needed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Vek Baustrade said:

I'll just accept what we have, rather than a speculative script that you're making up as you go. Forgive me if I doubt your ability to create something superior to the film we received. 

well it cant be worse that the attrocious thing we were given that is in many ways pissed off a huge amount of fans.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

well it cant be worse that the attrocious thing we were given that is in many ways pissed off a huge amount of fans.

Yes, it can.

It satisfied more viewers than it “pissed off,” as exemplified by the box office take. You don’t reach numbers like that without many repeat viewings. There are as many - or more - fans of the franchise who enjoyed it as didn’t. But, we’re in an age of entitled fandom...so-called “fans” calling for the removal of movies from a franchise’s lore, or for networks to rewrite and refilm entire seasons of expensive tv series because they got their panties in a twist over not enjoying something about a recent movie or episode. And those are the ones on the more reasonable end of the scale. On the other end, you’ve got people harassing writers, directors, and actors, espousing conspiracy theories about the studios or creative personnel intentionally shooting the proverbial finger at the audience, or bootlegging a movie to edit out elements that hurt their fragile sense of identity...like female characters with agency, characters who are not straight white males, or (as they put it) “gay stuff.”

You didn’t like the movie. That’s fair.

There are parts of the story or characters that led you to that. Also fair.

But neither of those things means it was poorly made.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Daeglan said:

well it cant be worse that the attrocious thing we were given that is in many ways pissed off a huge amount of fans.

What "atrocious thing" were we given? Cause TLJ is far and away the best Star Wars film of the Disney era, and a strong contender in the franchise overall.

A handful of REALLY WHINY BABIES can't let it go that they didn't like the movie, and an average number of people disliked the film (News flash: No star wars film satisfied 100% of audiences. There are people who dislike every single star wars film ever released)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Underachiever599 said:

Can we just lock this thread, please? Tired of hoping to see discussion on the new book, and instead see the four people recycling the same two arguments for pages on end

Heck...I've considered reporting it for lock myself. And I'm one of the four. 😂

Edited by Nytwyng

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Nytwyng said:

Heck...I've considered reporting it for lock myself. And I'm one of the four. 😂

I briefly threw in my two cents on the subject, but at this point it's just gotten ridiculous.

There's a new Clone Wars book out! With a lot of new equipment, NPCs, rules, specs, and lore goodies! Can't we please shift focus back to that, folks?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, strictly speaking...the focus was on when it was gonna be released. And now it is. Meanwhile, there's been a content thread over in the AoR forum since around the time of Celebration, when the first people got their hands on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/16/2019 at 8:28 PM, Daeglan said:

No but doing things that dont make sense does make it bad writing. For example Finn and Rose were able to leave the fleet to find a hacker. But they dont contact anyone to A. get fuel. B. get help. Holdo Doesnt tell Poe the plan which results in a mutiny. They Resistance Sacrifices their entire fleet to end up on a planet to be able to call for help... So what that tells me is the flagship doesnt have long range communications? WTF? All the threadfs that JJ left in EP VII for the next movie were effectively discarded. In none of the movie or the books do they explain how we go from return of the Jedi to the Force Awakens. Who is Snoke? Where did the First Order come from? How the **** did they get a feet so big they could effectively conquer everything with no one noticing? Why did the fleet not do what the Rebels used to do all the time scatter then regroup why didnt the fleet immediately jump out when the first order jumped in? The A wings, and X-wing and those bombers have hyper drives... there are so many actions taken by characters for plot reasons that dont make sense character wise. Leia yells at Poe for sacrificing all those shps then they turn around and do the same thing on an even bigger scale? Why didnt the First order just keep sending fighters to harass the resistance fleet.

This is all terrible writing.

 

On 5/16/2019 at 8:55 PM, Daeglan said:

which is terrible writing. And has them following basically the same path as Poe after they demoted him. That is bad writing.

 

On 5/16/2019 at 9:15 PM, Daeglan said:

No it is terrible writing for them to punish him for doing the same thing they are about to do. Poe sacrificed a squadron to destroy a huge ship.  Then Holdo and Company are gonna sacrifice the whole fleet to accomplish nothing. We are gonna fly to this planet to call for help and we are gonna sacrifice ALL of our capital ships to do so. None of this makes any sense militarily. I dont buy the resistance flagship not being able to make the call. That is dumb. That is bad writing. And the fact Rose and Finn were able to leave the fleet and come back unnoticed? Really? And you didnt think a refueling vessel might be a good idea while you were out?  Or help

 

21 hours ago, Daeglan said:

and he didnt tell the admiral because he was mutinying because of bad leadership. which doesnt really make sense.

Yes, it does. It makes perfect sense.

7 hours ago, Daeglan said:

She causes her best fighter pilot to go against her. That is a glaring example of not inspiring trust. And a good leader can reprimand with out bruising egos. This is bad. This is the kind of crap an admiral should not have happen. Neither character is acting in a manner that makes sense for the kind of characters they are. But plot demands they act that way so they do.

This happens in real life too, and has happened throughout history. Ever heard of the Mutiny on the Bounty?

6 hours ago, Daeglan said:

No I expect character to make decisions that make sense for the character. An ADMIRAL should know enough about leading people to know how to lead a character like Poe in a manner that results in him behaving in a manner they expect. She didn't do so and that seems out of place for a character who has been leading people well enough to become an admiral. But then completely fails at leading Poe? Does that make sense at all? Poe's Character acted in an expected manner. Holdo should have seen this as a likely outcome and acted in a manner to direct Poe in a manner to make him useful instead of leaving the lose cannon loose.

I gather you never served in the military, have you?

6 hours ago, Daeglan said:

Sure. How many of them reach the rank of Admiral?

More than you would realize.

As someone who served in the military, I can tell you with certainty that there are a lot of real life high ranking officers that the troops have absolutely no respect for, because they’re completely incompetent and only got their positions because of their connections. 

6 hours ago, Daeglan said:

Seems less likely in a small force like the resistance

Not really, especially since, as has already been pointed out Holdo was a New Republic Admiral. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, jivjov said:

What "atrocious thing" were we given? Cause TLJ is far and away the best Star Wars film of the Disney era, and a strong contender in the franchise overall.

A handful of REALLY WHINY BABIES can't let it go that they didn't like the movie, and an average number of people disliked the film (News flash: No star wars film satisfied 100% of audiences. There are people who dislike every single star wars film ever released)

given the huge backlash no it wasnt. What it did do is cause huge divides in the fandom. That is generally considered bad. And there was no need to do so. It could have been different with out insulting what manyfans loved about Star Wars. That is not a good outcome. And Rogue One was a far far far better movie than the TLJ. Even Solo is a better movie than TLJ.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

given the huge backlash no it wasnt. What it did do is cause huge divides in the fandom. That is generally considered bad. And there was no need to do so. It could have been different with out insulting what manyfans loved about Star Wars. That is not a good outcome. And Rogue One was a far far far better movie than the TLJ. Even Solo is a better movie than TLJ.

Is it really a "huge" backlash, or is it a small but very noisy backlash? What, exactly, was it that "many fans loved about Star Wars" that was allegedly "insulted?"

I mean, Celebration was just over a month ago, with tens of thousands of (by definition) fans present. And, despite the "huge backlash" and "huge divide" among self-described "fans" who harassed her online, made misogynist and racist slurs against her, and drove her from social media, TLJ's Kelly Marie Tran received warm welcomes and standing ovations whenever she took a stage, those in attendance signifying through that reception that the toxic grognards do not speak for the fandom as a whole.

The Metacritic score, which is gathered by live polling data from audiences leaving the theater (making it a more accurate, visceral response that's more difficult to game) sits at about 85%. No movie brings in $1.3 billion without many repeat viewings. So where's this "huge divide?" Meanwhile, the criticisms that it has received quite closely mirror those received by The Empire Strikes Back, the movie that is now near-universally considered to be the best movie in the franchise, bar none, a status that it only obtained over the course of time.

We do agree, however, that Rogue One and Solo were enjoyable, well done movies. We disagree on enjoying TLJ...but your not enjoying it doesn't make it a poorly-made movie, nor does a - by all indications - relatively small but disproportionately loud portion of the audience that not only didn't enjoy it, but seem to have undertaken a fanatical crusade to exact some sort of vengeance for...seeing a movie they didn't like be truly representative of the fan base at large.

Sorry you didn't like it. I hope future entries are more to your liking.

ETA: We're in a time where social media sites thrive on manufacturing then exacerbating a level of "outrage" that doesn't really reflect reality. Don't feed their toxicity...that's exactly what they want, because it's good business for them.

Edited by Nytwyng

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...