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Rise of the Separtist's release date?

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1 hour ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Yes, but there’s more said than just that; most of which I can’t fully understand because they both talk over one another and it all blends together into jibberish.

Which is bad storytelling.

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5 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Yoda told him not to go. Luke pretty much rejected Rey from the moment they met. Totally different. One was actively training and told him he wasnt ready. The other basically actively rejected her.

That Luke ALSO fails hard here absolves him? Nah. His self-pity or depression or whatever you want to call it led him to making a bad call with Rey.

 

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5 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

Why do you waste your time even watching that crap? Even with Sturgeon's Law in effect, you should find two good ones out of fifty. And again with the politics. If you are looking for political motivations in everything, then that's what you'll see. I can't stand Episodes VII & VIII, but it has nothing to do with my politics.

I think that reflects your view more than that of the videos. If you come to the video unwilling.to listen no one can help you and you fuel the divide and resentment. 

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1 minute ago, Stan Fresh said:

That Luke ALSO fails hard here absolves him? Nah. His self-pity or depression or whatever you want to call it led him to making a bad call with Rey.

 

No but it is an example of how Rey doesnt really struggle. Rey has not really grown as a character. And that is one of the problems

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3 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

I think that reflects your view more than that of the videos. If you come to the video unwilling.to listen no one can help you and you fuel the divide and resentment. 

Or if I don't watch the videos (or make such videos myself) and I don't bother with taking sides in social media crapfests, then my feelings are my own to share as I will in appropriate venues. A SW forum is the appropriate place to voice opinions--positive or negative--of SW media. Just because some jackholes don't like the movie as part of some idiotic social movement doesn't mean all negativity is a part of that crap.

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6 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

No but it is an example of how Rey doesnt really struggle. Rey has not really grown as a character. And that is one of the problems

She tries to do something and fails spectacularly at it. Saying she doesn't struggle is objectively false. It's right there in the movies,  clear as day.

 

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3 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

I disagree. In fact, it fits perfectly with the situation. Both are very excited and jubilant, so it makes perfect sense that they’d both be rambling at the same time, in all the excitement.

no.  It is bad storytelling because it does not include the audience in the conversation.

Edited by Daeglan

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1 minute ago, Tramp Graphics said:

That’s your opinion, one I don’t share. 

If the audience can't understand what is said what is said becomes irrelevant and not useful. the fact you think that info is important shows it is bad storytelling.

 

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7 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

I disagree. In fact, it fits perfectly with the situation. Both are very excited and jubilant, so it makes perfect sense that they’d both be rambling at the same time, in all the excitement.

 

4 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

no.  It is bad storytelling because it does not include the audience in the conversation.

You're just so, so wrong about these things. Like. Have you never seen a movie with overlapping dialogue? Have you never heard characters mumbling indistinctly to themselves?

Never mind the old Hollywood masters,  or European arthaus cinema,  just think about all the alien dialogue in the other SW movies that's not translated. Audiences are expected to infer meaning all the time.  The specifics don't matter here, only what's conveyed.  And we get it just fine.

 

Edited by Stan Fresh

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4 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:

She tries to do something and fails spectacularly at it. Saying she doesn't struggle is objectively false. It's right there in the movies,  clear as day.

 

Tries what? I havent seen her fail. What I see is luke fail to educate her and then because Luke is being an A-Hole she leaves and goes to the person who is actually interacting with her. And then she figures out she cant change him.

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1 minute ago, Daeglan said:

Tries what? I havent seen her fail. What I see is luke fail to educate her and then because Luke is being an A-Hole she leaves and goes to the person who is actually interacting with her. And then she figures out she cant change him.

Now I know you're  being willfully obtuse. 

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1 minute ago, Stan Fresh said:

 

You're just so, so wrong about these things. Like. Have you never seen a movie with overlapping dialogue? Have you never heard characters mumbling indistinctly to themselves?

 

yes I have. But Generally it is done in a way you can piece together what was actually said. I have no idea what Rey and Fin were saying

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34 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Tries what? I havent seen her fail. What I see is luke fail to educate her and then because Luke is being an A-Hole she leaves and goes to the person who is actually interacting with her. And then she figures out she cant change him.

Which she figures out by (wait for it) trying - and failing - to change him.

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9 hours ago, Daeglan said:

A Mary sue is a character that never fails in any meaningful way. I have yet to see Rey fail in any meaningful way. She beats Kylo Ren with no lightsaber training at all. She beats Snokes Guards with no real lightsaber training at all. She is able to use Influence on a stormtrooper with no real training at all. We dont really ever see her fail at all. And that makes for a boring character. She isnt really roughed up at Nema Outpost. She outflies fighter pilots in a ship she supposedly has never flown. accidentally releasing Rathtars seemed to more benefit her than cause her trouble. So yeah she is pretty Mary Sueish. as none of the so called failures were failures.

I suggest you watch 2015's The Force Awakens and 2017's The Last Jedi. You'll see plenty of success, failure, growth, and arc from Rey in those two movies. 

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1 hour ago, jivjov said:

I suggest you watch 2015's The Force Awakens and 2017's The Last Jedi. You'll see plenty of success, failure, growth, and arc from Rey in those two movies. 

ok name something. she conveniently can beat a trained lightsaber combatant with no training. She was able to use influence with no training at all. She was able to fly the falcon with no real struggle. She held he own against a bunch of thugs. She self rescued. I do not see any meaningful failure in the Force Awakens at all. She got captured by Kylo. But that capture was negated by her self rescuing. So it just smacks of a plot device to have her on Starkiller base. Fin actually had real failure. He got sliced open by Kylo. And having actually done sword fighting a trained fighter would easily handle an untrained person. And skill with a quarterstaff does not make it make sense for her to beat Kylo. 

The Last Jedi is just a string of Luke being an a hole to her. So of course she goes to Kylo who again defeat guards that are supposed to be badasses with little effort. Then they fight over Anakins lightsaber and it breaks and she escapes. and again no real loss there. no injuries.  I dont see any real failure at all. Other than her being drawn to the darkside and Luke not doing anything to guide her on the right path. Then she beats a bunch of  trained tie fighter pilots with little effort. She doesnt have any piloting training. why is she so good. Poe is bad *** in a cockpit but that is established from the beginning. Rey it is established she is a scavenger. So her fixing the Falcon makes sense. But that is about it. We see Luke struggle with the force and over time get better. eventually being awesome after training with a jedi master for what is clearly weeks.

Rey is not allowed to have any meaningful failure. And that is why so many fans don't like her. We are told she is a good role model. But see good role models dont happen because you are told they are. They happen by having their struggles and eventually succeeding. Leia is a good role model. Ripley is a good role model. Buffy is a good role model. Aeryn Sun is a good Role model. Amanda Carter is a good Role model. There are tons of examples of awesome female role models that no one had to tell us were good role models. But all I ever hear from pro Rey people is that we are wrong with out any meaningful addressing of the issues and complaints about how the character is handled. Jynn Erso has more meaningful character development in 1 movie than Rey. All ray seems to struggle with is want to go back to Jakku.

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10 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

And Luke (as well as Anakin) gets a pass because he's a he, whether that bias be intentional or not.

If Rey were male, we wouldn't be hearing nearly as much bellyaching, simply due to decades of media traditions of the white male lead being the hero and thus able to do incredible things simply because they're the hero.  It's why Brie Larsen gets so much crap for her portrayal of Carol Danvers in Captain Marvel, when if it'd been a male protagonist nobody would have batted an eye at the character's extreme level of power and cocky attitude.

For all the grousing about the sequels (and in their time, the prequels), the original films fall about just as fast (if not faster in several cases) under the same level of scrutiny, and frankly the main reason the original films get a pass is nostalgia.

Luke fails way more than Rey ever has. He lost his hand. He failed to save Han. He couldnt get his x-wing out of the swamp. and so on. Real meaningful failure. Even Anakin has meaningful failure. he does not save his mom. Anakin fails at self control. Anakin loses an arm to count Dooku and fails to prevent his escape.

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Several have given you examples already, but what the heck...one more time won’t hurt.

When we meet her, she’s locked herself into a repeating cycle of drudgery, waiting for something that she knows, deep down, will never come.

She spends TFA actively rejecting the “call to adventure,” wanting to go back to that cycle.

In trying to help newfound friends, she unleashes deadly creatures that stand to hurt them as much as they stand to hurt the people trying to capture them.

She finds a potential mentor in Han, only to watch him slain by his own son.

In TFA, she continues to try rejecting the “call to adventure,” by imploring Luke to return and save the day rather than asking to be trained.

Once she decides to train, she repeatedly demonstrates that, while she may have raw power, she lacks the discipline to consistently use it properly - diving straight to the dark side focus, being unable to control her swing of the saber, etc.

She fails to convince Luke to return with her.

Convinced that Ben/Kylo can be redeemed, she tries to get him to return to the light, believes she’s succeeded, then discovers that she didn’t...that he killed Snoke and fought by her side for his own goals

Does any of this mean that you should reverse your dislike of the character? Nah. If the character doesn’t click for you, the character doesn’t click for you. But the claim that she suffers no setbacks or failures is demonstrably false, and when compared to the checklist you provided of Luke and Anakin’s failures, we can clearly see that, with the exception of dismemberment, she’s been presented with similar situations.

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23 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

Several have given you examples already, but what the heck...one more time won’t hurt.

When we meet her, she’s locked herself into a repeating cycle of drudgery, waiting for something that she knows, deep down, will never come.

She spends TFA actively rejecting the “call to adventure,” wanting to go back to that cycle.

In trying to help newfound friends, she unleashes deadly creatures that stand to hurt them as much as they stand to hurt the people trying to capture them.

She finds a potential mentor in Han, only to watch him slain by his own son.

In TFA, she continues to try rejecting the “call to adventure,” by imploring Luke to return and save the day rather than asking to be trained.

Once she decides to train, she repeatedly demonstrates that, while she may have raw power, she lacks the discipline to consistently use it properly - diving straight to the dark side focus, being unable to control her swing of the saber, etc.

She fails to convince Luke to return with her.

Convinced that Ben/Kylo can be redeemed, she tries to get him to return to the light, believes she’s succeeded, then discovers that she didn’t...that he killed Snoke and fought by her side for his own goals

Does any of this mean that you should reverse your dislike of the character? Nah. If the character doesn’t click for you, the character doesn’t click for you. But the claim that she suffers no setbacks or failures is demonstrably false, and when compared to the checklist you provided of Luke and Anakin’s failures, we can clearly see that, with the exception of dismemberment, she’s been presented with similar situations.

Do any of her failures ever make her rely on someone else to get her out of a situation? When Luke failed,  he usually had to have someone else bail his butt out of the fire. When Rey fails,  it's just so she can look even more awesome in the next scene. In fact, many of her "failures" are because she looks to others instead of just doing things herself. 

Edited by HappyDaze
Autocorrect struck again...

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11 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

Several have given you examples already, but what the heck...one more time won’t hurt.

When we meet her, she’s locked herself into a repeating cycle of drudgery, waiting for something that she knows, deep down, will never come. And it cost her nothing.

She spends TFA actively rejecting the “call to adventure,” wanting to go back to that cycle. And yet she was dragged along anyway so again no loss.

In trying to help newfound friends, she unleashes deadly creatures that stand to hurt them as much as they stand to hurt the people trying to capture them. and yet again she suffered no loss.

She finds a potential mentor in Han, only to watch him slain by his own son. not her failure. That is Han's Failure.

In TFA, she continues to try rejecting the “call to adventure,” by imploring Luke to return and save the day rather than asking to be trained.

Once she decides to train, she repeatedly demonstrates that, while she may have raw power, she lacks the discipline to consistently use it properly - diving straight to the dark side focus, being unable to control her swing of the saber, etc. and again no real loss. The only real failure here is Luke not training her. Not teaching her control. This is more Lukes failure. not here. She is just ignorant.

She fails to convince Luke to return with her. And she doesn't really lose anything in this.

Convinced that Ben/Kylo can be redeemed, she tries to get him to return to the light, believes she’s succeeded, then discovers that she didn’t...that he killed Snoke and fought by her side for his own goals And again she didnt lose anything. She has all the parts to the saber and makes a new one.

Does any of this mean that you should reverse your dislike of the character? Nah. If the character doesn’t click for you, the character doesn’t click for you. But the claim that she suffers no setbacks or failures is demonstrably false, and when compared to the checklist you provided of Luke and Anakin’s failures, we can clearly see that, with the exception of dismemberment, she’s been presented with similar situations.

See the problem is you guys keep calling things failures that really arent failures because she never really loses anything. For a failure to really mean anything there has to be actual loss. They have to lose SOMETHING. For example Luke Lost his hand and saber and Han in Empire. Those are REAL losses. And she has NO GROWTH really. I dont really see anything different about Rey.

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3 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

Do any of her failures ever make her rely on someone else to get her out of a situation? When Luke failed,  he usually had to have someone else bail his butt out of the fire. When Rey fails,  it's just so she can look even more awesome in the next scene. In fact, many of her "failures" are because she looks to others instead of just doing things herself. 

exactly

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13 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

At this point, this entire thread can get dumped into a chemical fire without losing anything of value.

That's a bold statement...  Because your beliefs are being challenged and, perhaps, overturned?  C'mon now.

Be mature.  We haven't seen any outright name calling or overt insults thus far.  Personally, I would call the last few pages of this thread good-spirited, civil debate on topics directly related to Star Wars and this RotS book by extension (due to its seemingly pandering inclusion of the Rey-inspired Scavenger).

In fact, the first attempt to convert a meaningful discussion into a reactionary sexist outcry was yours, amigo.  (I'm glad to say that didn't happen because it appears no one here is actually sexist.)

 

Now, to get back on track, I'm really excited to see the upcoming Death Watch content in the CotR book.  And, again, I'm holding out hope that the "missing" ships and vehicles from RotS make their way into this new supplement ... along with the Kom'rk-class starship that happens to be one of my faves.  😎

EDIT:  *cue someone informing me that the Kom'rk was actually already statted out in another book*

Edited by Harlock999

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Re: "Rey beats people in fights with no training!":

 

at no point has she ever 1v1'd someone who was trying to win. Ben in the forest was 1) injured and 2) not tying to hurt her. Snoke wanted her brought to him, he told her she needed a teacher, etc

her vs Luke on Ahch-To was also a case of neither of them trying to actually harm the other. The fight was a physical manifestation of their disagreement on how to handle the Ben situation. Note that when Rey knocks Luke down, he stops himself with the force with zero effort or trouble. At any point he could have completely wiped the floor with her. But that fight was never about one of them hurting the other. 

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2 hours ago, Harlock999 said:

That's a bold statement... 

But an increasingly accurate one because of folks like you that keep repeating the same tired old tune of "Rey's a Mary Sue!" over and over while never bothering to consider that YOU might be the one who's mistaken, especially as ever single one of those so-called "points" has been quite thoroughly dismantled and debunked or marked as being the misogynistic tripe that they are.

I've seen absolutely nothing from you or HappyDaze or Daeglan or anyone else that "challenges" my opinion on Rey.  If anything, all I've seen is more and more confirmation the Rey hate draws more for misogyny and the haters' own insecurities about a female protagonist than any actual sort of perceived flaws about her character, all while Luke and Anakin get a free pass simply for having a different set of sex organs.

All of which has absolutely NOTHING to do with the now-released Rise of the Sep artists book.

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