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DakkaDakka12

So if theres an app now. Why do we need cards?

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50 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

If FFG would stop tying the cards to the release of a miniature, it could also open up a lot of possibilities for "The Blue Squadron X-Wing Card Pack," "The Ordnance Booster Pack," and reprinting the errata on the cards to negate the need for PDFs, FAQs, and a really lame app.

I would be more interested in buying the "2019 Errata Booster" than chasing down another PDF.

I'm in favor of that sort of thing as well. I absolutely think there should be cards without models expansions. But that's because I like the cards and think they are necessary. 

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If the app was actually working or well designed, i would totally agree that we didn’t need cards.

It also needed a game mode where we can track stats and tokens...

As it is, i will work with Cards and YASB

When BattleScribe is up to date for once, its also great

Edited by ForceM

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6 minutes ago, ForceM said:

If the app was actually working or well designed, i would totally agree that we didn’t need cards.

It also needed a game mode where we can track stats and tokens...

As it is, i will work with Cards and YASB

When BattleScribe is up to date for once, its also great

Yeah, this.

You need the infrastructure in place before you make the move. As is, there is little incentive for FFG to change.

Though it is worth pointing out, if they go through an app based system, that doesn't mean they can't charge you for that online content. Privateerpress did this for WarmaHordes on a faction by faction basis.

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I was not meaning removing all cardboard from the game. I was only suggesting removing pilot cards and having them on a listbuilding app or website that you could print out. 

With pilot cards no longer being physical, you could balance under performing or over performing ships and pilots in ways other than making them overpriced enough that nobody uses them(I feel like this happened to the 2.0 ghost)

Tokens need to stay in this game to keep the game moving, but a few local tournaments I have went to required players bring a printed copy of their list for your opponent to have a copy. If pilots were not cards I would simply have to print out an extra list for myself.

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41 minutes ago, DakkaDakka12 said:

I was not meaning removing all cardboard from the game. I was only suggesting removing pilot cards and having them on a listbuilding app or website that you could print out. 

With pilot cards no longer being physical, you could balance under performing or over performing ships and pilots in ways other than making them overpriced enough that nobody uses them(I feel like this happened to the 2.0 ghost)

Tokens need to stay in this game to keep the game moving, but a few local tournaments I have went to required players bring a printed copy of their list for your opponent to have a copy. If pilots were not cards I would simply have to print out an extra list for myself.

They are an aesthetic that people enjoy.  Enough that some people are working to put the points and upgrade slots BACK onto the cards with DIY graphics.

IMHO, FFG needs to make the cards more flexible in terms of releases, where updated cards are easy to be had.  This would be no more confusing than multiple PDFs that (in the moment) don't even corroborate with the app.  This allows them to put all the info back onto every card so that they represent all facets of the game, and might even allow the cards themselves to become a (non-random) collectible component of the game.

Edited by Darth Meanie

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Talking about the over costing of ships that haven't come out yet... I feel that while some high costs are warranted (TIE Defender jumps to mind), things like  some large based ships, namely the Ghost, is to drive focus to the ships released in a full 2.0 wave.

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14 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

Consumer demand. Allot of people prefer to have it there on the table and able to handled. Also isn't dependent on wi-fi or other connection type not glitching out.

There's certainly something fun about having all the cards laid out, but even more importantly, all the information is right there in front of me.  I can easily look down and remind myself which upgrade is on which ship, or what list my opponent's flying.  If everything is on the app, scrolling through information will be much slower.

14 hours ago, DakkaDakka12 said:

its not like they can come up with too many more factions that people will care about.

Well, there are four new ones on the way...

 

As far as checking legality goes, that's something that really only needs to be checked once in organized play, though, and in casual play only if you mistrust your opponent.  This is different from card abilities which may require checking throughout the game.

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There's definitely a balancing point between making a tabletop game and just fully making a computer game, which X-wing would easily work as.  Where exactly that line should be is going to come down to personal preference though.

 

Without cards, you are either printing your lists every time you want to play or relying entirely on an electronic device to track the game state, both of which are fairly inconvenient to some degree.

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50 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

Any decent squad builder checks legality, so that should not be a problem.

Too bad FFG hasn't provided a decent squad builder that checks legality. .  .

 
Quote

Posted Monday at 07:18 PM

It still lets you break the rules, and not having stuff like a function collection management and viewing movement dials is pretty bad. Add to the fact it's not an app it's just a web interface and is useless without an internet connection... (What do you do if you are in a place with no cell signal or free wifi)

Customized YT-1300 Light Freighter - •L3-37 - 51
    •L3-37 - Droid Revolutionary (47)
        •L3–37 (4)

Total: 51/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

Illegal list.... 

It checks all the those list rules, so a new player might think this is legal and bring it to a tournament as they made it in the official app .

It does not even have plain text export so noway to easily share your lists outside of Facebook/twitter and all those do is post a link to the web interface. 

 

Edited by Darth Meanie

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17 hours ago, DakkaDakka12 said:

I can’t fully grasp why we need cards if they have an app?

If they dropped cards they could easily change ship stats by changing stats in the app.

They wouldn’t need to play it safe with ships and upgrades with worrying about making something that breaks the game and they would probably make the same or similar money with feature creep that inevitably happens but now  they would be able to dial it down.

because everyone who bought 1.0 bought into a game with cards, and the dependance on the app is already a deal breaker for many people.

every aspect of board games and miniature games is done better on computer except for one single thing: all the components are physical in miniature games. if you want a computer game just play vassal

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3 hours ago, Kehl_Aecea said:

Talking about the over costing of ships that haven't come out yet... I feel that while some high costs are warranted (TIE Defender jumps to mind), things like  some large based ships, namely the Ghost, is to drive focus to the ships released in a full 2.0 wave.

yeah, pricing is definitely being used to encourage players to buy new content

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6 hours ago, Duskwalker said:

Many players can't even keep track of there abilities with the cards, let alone there opponents. I don't want to imagine how it would be if everybody had to constantly cheek there phone for all triggers, especially not on tournaments, when everybody's battery dies during game 3.    

And not everyone uses smart phones, there's still folk (mostly the older generation) that prefer using FLip phones (cheeper!)..

3 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

They are an aesthetic that people enjoy.  Enough that some people are working to put the points and upgrade slots BACK onto the cards with DIY graphics.

IMHO, FFG needs to make the cards more flexible in terms of releases, where updated cards are easy to be had.  This would be no more confusing than multiple PDFs that (in the moment) don't even corroborate with the app.  This allows them to put all the info back onto every card so that they represent all facets of the game, and might even allow the cards themselves to become a (non-random) collectible component of the game.

So true.  I for one, much prefer using Hard copy books from older RPGs, such as ADND or Starwars d6, rather than just having them all in PDF and using a tablet/lap top.

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Because this is a miniatures game, not a video game or toys-to-life game.The app is merely a very much needed means of allowing ongoing point and upgrade balance, and it's not intended to replace anything.

I suspect FFG's new digital team is working on a fully digitized version of this, though. As an avid fan of the physical versions of X-Wing and Armada, I'd buy the video games if they made them, but I would never advocate they replace the physical elements in the miniatures games.

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6 minutes ago, Arttemis said:

Because this is a miniatures game, not a video game or toys-to-life game.The app is merely a very much needed means of allowing ongoing point and upgrade balance, and it's not intended to replace anything.

I don’t know if it was much needed since other ffg games don’t have one, but I certainly see the advantages of immediate rebalance. 

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15 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

yeah, pricing is definitely being used to encourage players to buy new content

Yeah all those super-discount TIE Advanced swarms dominating the scene make this really transparent

And the way they jacked up the costs of Bombers and Punishers is just shameful

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I kinda laugh at the "without cards TT players would be completely lost and ruined" talk.

40k had people scribble their list on a sheet of paper that was 1 page long just for names, chart, and gear. None of the rules at all. Ya had 7 books to read while playing for that. 

And it lasted ages.

So somehow I think if the cards weren't part of it players would be just fine, they would print lists and read rule references like grown *** people.

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23 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

I run the app on my tablet (I'm one of few folks who hasn't upgraded to a smart phone), and can't access the app without wifi.  Most of the time, FLGS have this, but not always.

I run the app on my phone and can't access the app without a 4G signal.  Some FLGS have the gaming area in the basement with no Wi-Fi.

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17 minutes ago, Dabirdisdaword said:

I kinda laugh at the "without cards TT players would be completely lost and ruined" talk.

40k had people scribble their list on a sheet of paper that was 1 page long just for names, chart, and gear. None of the rules at all. Ya had 7 books to read while playing for that. 

And it lasted ages.

So somehow I think if the cards weren't part of it players would be just fine, they would print lists and read rule references like grown *** people.

There's no need to go picking on those poor, defenseless strawmen.  No one's claiming we "need" cards in the sense of the game being utterly unplayable without them.  Rather, people are simply saying that cards bring something to the table (as it were) that a purely digital solution wouldn't.  Cards are "needed" in the sense of not being completely superfluous.

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