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Fixes to the Game (version 8.8 w/ Ref Sheets) post errata 2.0

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8 minutes ago, omnicrone said:

Very different from my idea of rework (mine still give strife), but I don't see a problem with it mechanically

i just didn't like that the ranged/bow kata was the only kata that gave strife, and it was a LOT. basically no other techniques aside shuji give strife i think... except pelting arrow o_O and some "terror vision style invocations".

i didn't understand it. i feel like this is more thematic.

ideally, I would like for it to scale a bit... but don't know how to do that. fatigue is already a really good effect as it bypass armor.

 

what is your idea ?

 

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1 hour ago, Avatar111 said:

what is your idea ?

It ended up becoming quite wordy and complex so I'm problably scrapp´ing it for now. The only character that will pick it in my table will probably be the Doji Courtier and she can only pick it at Rank 2 so I have no hurry into fixing it.

here is my current rework

Quote

Pelting Hail Style     Rank 2

Activation: When you make a Martial Arts [Ranged] check, you may spend in the following way:

+: Choose a number of other characters at range 0-2 of your target and at range 3+ from yourself equal to spent this way. The chosen characters receive 2 strife plus one strife for each of those circumstances that applies: you are on Obscuring Terrain, the chosen character is on Entangling or Difficult Terrain, the chosen character has no ranged weapon readied, the chosen character still has not acted on this skirmish.

Great for ambushes and very Waspy, thematically.

Edited by omnicrone

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8 hours ago, omnicrone said:

It ended up becoming quite wordy and complex so I'm problably scrapp´ing it for now. The only character that will pick it in my table will probably be the Doji Courtier and she can only pick it at Rank 2 so I have no hurry into fixing it.

here is my current rework

Great for ambushes and very Waspy, thematically.

It is more balanced while keeping its core intention. If i had no problem with the technique being a strife giving tool, this is a rework i could totally use.

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1 hour ago, Avatar111 said:

what do you guys think of the "battle in the mind" kata ?

it being the big duel kata, I really have a hard time with what it does. especially the 2opp spending which seems totally useless.

I reworked for the Kakita Duelist to have it at Rank 1 on their curriculum (to substitute for the redundant Striking as Air). This made the Kakita NPC in the Topaz Championship destroy the Utaku PC by locking her out of Earth and predicting Water (her two 3 rings), in the second round the Kakita went in for the critical (made possible with the reworked rising blade). It isn't the most flashy Kata, but it can be useful if you know your opponent. The 2 opps seems expensive, but you are rolling on Void stance, which means you are probably having more successes (because you can keep success/strife) than you would get away with in other stances.

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1 minute ago, omnicrone said:

I reworked for the Kakita Duelist to have it at Rank 1 on their curriculum (to substitute for the redundant Striking as Air). This made the Kakita NPC in the Topaz Championship destroy the Utaku PC by locking her out of Earth and predicting Water (her two 3 rings), in the second round the Kakita went in for the critical (made possible with the reworked rising blade). It isn't the most flashy Kata, but it can be useful if you know your opponent. The 2 opps seems expensive, but you are rolling on Void stance, which means you are probably having more successes (because you can keep success/strife) than you would get away with in other stances.

yeah thats the only thing i figured out.. 2opps to lock a stance, then if you won ini, you can predict another stance. meaning you lock them out of 2 rings..

but it is a very expensive shenanigan. and super situational... still think it is a weird design and was wondering if there was something I didn't fully understand lol.

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Just now, Avatar111 said:

yeah thats the only thing i figured out.. 2opps to lock a stance, then if you won ini, you can predict another stance. meaning you lock them out of 2 rings..

but it is a very expensive shenanigan. and super situational... still think it is a weird design and was wondering if there was something I didn't fully understand lol.

Yeah, it doesn't seem very optimal, but it was sure as heck stylish in play.

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23 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

you reworked rising cut to have a 2opp crit option ?

Yes. I was already considering it before you posted it. Don't think it changed how duels work, at least not for the worst. My players really enjoyed the duels in this edition compared to 4E

Edited by omnicrone

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18 minutes ago, omnicrone said:

Yes. I was already considering it before you posted it. Don't think it changed how duels work, at least not for the worst. My players really enjoyed the duels in this edition compared to 4E

yeah the 2 opps on rising cut seem fair... i mean, it is still a TN3 technique. if you really want to reserve it for "masters" you could say it take 3 opps to crit, but i find that when 3tn 2opp is goign to be too easy (especially considering the opponent could be in air/earth stance) you are at the point of having heartpiercing strike anyway.

so the tweak on rising cut really is only good for rank 1-2 and maybe 3 duelists. 

Edited by Avatar111

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next on the list is Battle in the Mind. which I want to very slightly alter so that it becomes a really good duel Kata, fun, but not "auto-win". More like a mindgame kata.

after that... I honestly think only very minor changes (stuff that really wouldn't be crucial..) would be left. It is almost ready!

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I have a question here.

water ring VS  iaijutsu techniques ?

 

If I have a big water ring (my main ring), I can take out my weapon and strike:

TN2 Dmg(weapon + success) 2opp Crit.

vs Crossing Blade

TN2 Dmg(Dls + success) no Crit.

 

so sure.. crossing blade will do a big +1Dmg (katana +1 Dls compared to Dmg) and can use opps to increase Dmg. But no Crit.

and sure.. rising blade can be situational, very very strong against compromised target.

 

but in a regular duel... having a good water ring does the job. you do maybe 2-3 Dmg less than Crossing Blade but you can Crit.

 

knowing that. I am absolutely tempted to give Iaijutsu Techniques a way to Crit. It could be severe, like 3 opps to crit ? but that it strictly cannot ? I find the decision to be weird.

will go with a hefty 3opp needed to crit for crossing blade, and 2opp to crit for rising blade (giving it an edge, but, probably a higher TN vs most opponent of rank 2 or 3+ since it is vigilance as TN and 3 vigilance is pretty common.

 

this way, water stance is still good (can use calming breath, opp to remove strife or fatigue) and still the easiest way to crit vs anybody at vigilance 3 or more (since only tn2 opp2, making it equal to rising blade vs vigilance 2 but better at 3+.) also, they could unsheat and do Flowing water strike, which aint half bad as an opener.

on top of that... water can unsheat the weapon with 2 hands, giving it +2 deadliness (katana) compared to the iaijutsu techniques.

 

i think my point is valid.

Edited by Avatar111

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On 10/31/2018 at 4:15 PM, Avatar111 said:

what do you guys think of the "battle in the mind" kata ?

it being the big duel kata, I really have a hard time with what it does. especially the 2opp spending which seems totally useless.

In my custom duel system for iaijutsu duels its pretty awesome. Cause you lock the opponent out of one stance. Then in the focus phase, before the strike, you can predict, locking him out of another stance. So you prolly forbid him from using his 2 best rings, if you can guess those, or get info on assessment.

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13 minutes ago, Shosur0 said:

In my custom duel system for iaijutsu duels its pretty awesome. Cause you lock the opponent out of one stance. Then in the focus phase, before the strike, you can predict, locking him out of another stance. So you prolly forbid him from using his 2 best rings, if you can guess those, or get info on assessment.

so you mean you spend 2opps during void to lock him out of one ring, then you win initiative and use predict? basically he is unable to choose 2 rings on his first turn.

did you change any rules, or thats it? thats "as is" ?

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3 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

so you mean you spend 2opps during void to lock him out of one ring, then you win initiative and use predict? basically he is unable to choose 2 rings on his first turn.

did you change any rules, or thats it? thats "as is" ?

I just posted the system in a new thread. Any opinions good or bad are welcome. ;)

You can see that "Battle in the Mind" during the initative phase can be quite useful in that system. I left the technique as it is.

And well... in a iaijutsu duel the first turn is most of the times the only turn. So yeh, pretty powerful.

In fact, though we do a fair amount of critizism, the game is great. I like the system. I just modified the duel system, tweaked some weapons as you did and a few techniques.

Edited by Shosur0

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33 minutes ago, Shosur0 said:

I just posted the system in a new thread. Any opinions good or bad are welcome. ;)

You can see that "Battle in the Mind" during the initative phase can be quite useful in that system. I left the technique as it is.

And well... in a iaijutsu duel the first turn is most of the times the only turn. So yeh, pretty powerful.

In fact, though we do a fair amount of critizism, the game is great. I like the system. I just modified the duel system, tweaked some weapons as you did and a few techniques.

ill check that!

the game is great but feels unfinished/unpolished and a bit bloated here and there. but i'm not starting an "official" game for it until probably after christmas. so until then we just test stuff and read the book (and make our houserules).

Edited by Avatar111

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On 10/31/2018 at 1:52 PM, omnicrone said:

here is my current rework

My concern is that there is only 3 ranged Katas right now and making one of them much more specific/narrow in focus really limits ranged people (Melee has a LOT more Katas unique to it, after all).

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11 minutes ago, Ikiry0 said:

My concern is that there is only 3 ranged Katas right now and making one of them much more specific/narrow in focus really limits ranged people (Melee has a LOT more Katas unique to it, after all).

a lot of the kata you think are "melee" can also be used with ranged weapon...

the "close combat only" kata are not that many, theres only a few. really.

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possible rules to deal with the "destroyed" equipment condition:

from @WHW "I assume that cracked teapots are [destroyed], as they can not perform their intended function of holding in the water. (in the artisan skill they put repairing a cracked teapot at TN3)

This would put routine maintenance at TN1 Earth Action that can be taken in narrative time, while repair to remove [destroyed] would be Earth TN3 downtime activity. That's how we reported using artisan rules during open beta and we never got corrected on that front."

 

as i understand it:

remove [damaged] = narrative time TN1 check

remove [destroyed] = downtime TN3 check

Edited by Avatar111

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version 3.1:

I reverted the change to Earth Stance since I think my duel modifications (predict action change) and iaijutsu techniques buff (ability to crit with 3opps) fixed the main issue I had with it.

Added back that "strife" matters for resist checks (only opportunities can't be used). Makes the Resist checks harder (as intended) but still without slowing the gameplay too much, which is in big part due to opportunity spendings multiple time per turn.

Edited by Avatar111

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Heya, I'm back at it, polishing my changes.

first, I reverted the change to the stat distribution... i'm at peace with the fact Air ring is playing the game on hard mode.

secondly, I reverted the change to earth stance... my main issue with it was during duels to first blood/strike and i feel like my new tweaks explained below fixed that.

thirdly, I pimped up my rule modification to duels, which I think is starting to be pretty good now. But i'd like opinions!

and lastly, I again revised Coiling Serpent Strike... trying to find the right wording and balance to make it a fun, usable, logical technique.

here are the updates:

 

-adjusting the Duel rules for the "Predict" action (more fun duels)

 

-First, remove the "predict action" from the list of possible actions to execute during your turn.

-Second, make the "predict action" a non-action, free event, that both duelists can take during each Staredown phase of the duel (same time as you do the bidding for initiative).

-The ruling would be the same, you can "predict" a stance between earth/fire/air/water, and if the opponent choose that stance before the end of your next turn he suffers the consequences.

-The consequences would be: Lose your stance ring value in Strife AND your stance effect is cancelled for that ring until the beginning of your next turn (you can still use your ring dices just like normal, you just don't get the bonus effect from the stance)

 

    This makes the "predict" happens every round, which creates some fun mind games (for strife especially) but it doesn't totally keep you out of your stance. It fixes the main issue I had with some stance effects and I feel that improve the fun factor in duels while not adding more "checks" or taking fun away from players.

 

 

-adjusting a few specific techniques

 

Coiling Serpent Strike: 

change the 1opp+ usage to:

2opp+: choose a weapon the target has readied; that weapon cannot be used for attack actions until the end of your next turn while the target is within reach of your weapon with snaring quality. You can use this effect once for each readied weapon with the snaring quality you have.

and,

remove the 2opp usage (the one that immobilised the target) but instead, add this permanent buff while you have the technique: reduce the opportunity you must spend to activate the snaring quality by 1 (minimum of 1 and doesn't stack with any other ways to reduce the opportunity spending for the snare quality)

Edited by Avatar111

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2 hours ago, shosuko said:

What is your reasoning for reverting the stat distribution?

I want to make less change as possible to the rules (despite what it seems like!), And I just accepted that air was basically playing the game on "hard mode".

I'm still really not super happy nor really understanding about the lack of composure for courtiers and cranes especially as unmasking is often losing honor and they are not the characters I envision to have lower honor nor the characters that I feel would unmask often. But hey, so be it. 

The system uses air ring for both "ninjas/stealth" and "courtiers/smartassness" both of these things are a bit in opposition and i feel air ring stance effect and secondary stat are much more ninja than courtier as written right now... Though, there is no easy fix to that...

So yeah, playing a courtier is playing this game on "hard mode", because they are characters who deeply care about not unmasking (see; courtier's resolve versus warrior's resolve) but have low composure, and instead they "act fast" which is a bit useless in intrigues anyway.

But i don't really see how to make a fix that would suit the courtiers without changing the way ninjas/scouts/scorpions are (i learned to love air ring as is for them)...

So thats about it.

On another note, what do you think about the duel tweak (change to predict action) in its latest form?

 

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