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Fixes to the Game (version 8.8 w/ Ref Sheets) post errata 2.0

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Hmm.

I kind of agree - if there's an issue it comes down to the 'minimum of 1 range band' in a manoeuvre action.

15 hours ago, Avatar111 said:

that also makes it that you CANNOT move even 1 range band in "climb mode" unless you pass a minimum Tn2 check (or use air opportunities) in skirmishes. which is also FINE

Essentially it boils down to 'you can't use your free 1 range band move' (either the default one or the one you get for selecting a manoeuvre action) to make a 'challenging move' (defined as anything 'worse' than entangling terrain).

'Impassable' must logically be a terrain quality that can exist, even if it's not in the book; for extreme examples, a mirror-smooth vertical wall, or a bottomless chasm, or whatever, which cannot logically be traversed without special provision.

If you can only move across less extreme examples of such 'terrain' with range bands of movement 'earned' by passing a check (at TN2 plus any TN increases appropriate to the terrain), not with 'freebies', then you have an interesting counterpoint to normal movement situations - Water or Fire will move faster over 'open terrain' - Water by getting a free one-range-band move and Fire by getting more successes on the check, whilst Air and Earth will move faster over 'extreme terrain' - Air by ignoring the fact it's vertical, giving you back your 'free range band' move, Earth by ignoring any TN increases on the terrain.

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Thanks a lot for your insight.

Yeah I think it mostly does work, and more importantly it is logical (you cannot climb faster than you can run!)

The TN for the maneuvre action check can be increased by difficult terrain in the case of, as you say, "a mirror smooth wall".

But even in that case, Air should be able to climb as easy as earth at least. Since you get one range band as part of the maneuvre action, then only 1 opportunity allows air to climb one range band of "any" surface. As it was in the original design also I think.

Earth would still need a tn2 for 1 range band (+ 1opp), then tn6 (and 1 opp) to climb a second range band on a "difficult terrain wall".

Air would need tn4 for a second range band, with 2 opp. Making Air probably still a little bit better at climbing during skirmishes (remember this is mostly to manage climb speed rather than climb difficulty). Under narrative rules, you just get a TN assigned by the GM (and Air climb for free with 1 opp if you allow it).

basically, Air gets to avoid Difficult terrain climbs at the cost of 1opp per range band, Earth is 1opp for all range bands (but when you climb, its hard to climb more than 2 range bands per turn).

The rule also makes it so that if you want to climb, you at least need to hit a tn2. Which again is, logical. Aside from air, that gets the 1 opp deal.

Jumping is as easy for all rings though. Since unless you rule out that only some ring can jump, no rules by the corebook allow some ring to jump better than an other. Which im kinda fine with.

 

Edited by Avatar111

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Well - aside from some very weird and niche circumstances*, during a skirmish you're probably not really looking to climb many range bands at once anyway; it's likely to be a case of going up or down one range band to take a 'shortcut' or reach an opponent on a wall, or something.

If you're trying to scale something like a castle wall, it's probably either a mass battle scene or a non-conflict-scene infiltration.

Air being better for 'one band climbs' over a short distance whilst rushing about while earth is better for longer, focused, climbs makes a degree of narrative sense.

 

 

 

*I guess something like the G.I. Joe Retaliation's "Silent Interlude" Cliffside Battle?

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Mounted Combat rule (p.326):  the first point, it should read "When the rider succeed on a Maneuvre action check, add bonus successes equal to the mount's water ring.

    as written, for every "movement" action, this make some random techniques super strong that have no point of being stronger because you are on horseback. I am quite certain it should be intended for "maneuvre action checks"  only.

   crossing cut kata basically makes a knife an insane weapon when mounted. better than a spear. That is only one example, the list is long...

Edited by Avatar111

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Emerald Empire Sourcebook

Yoriki (title ability):  add at the end; ... to results set to opportunity for the purpose of activating the snaring item quality.

    This ability is meant to help snaring opponents, not do critical strike or activate any other kind of technique or opportunity usage.

 

mantis PDF weapons

Butterfly Sword: reduce deadliness by 1.

  This weapon was absolutely overpowered. Compare it to the Dao in the core book, The Butterfly sword had better stats than the Dao for EVERYTHING (and a butterfly sword is basically only a short Dao with a special guard). So yeah, the designer just didn't cross reference and put numbers without thinking.

  Now, I already added +1dmg and Durable quality to the Dao in the corebook (which makes it better, but it is STILL a bad weapon despite this buff), and by reducing the Butterfly Sword deadliness by 1 I achieve balance for these weapons (Dao still bad and Butterfly sword still strong, but less so)

 

Sai: add 1 deadliness. 

  It needed it. It was simply way too weak in comparison to other options, even taking in mind its item quality ability which is good but not that good (especially considering the existence of the busted Coiling Strike Technique which makes the snaring item quality opp spending mostly useless).

 

 

and I reverted and adjusted some of the changes to the below technique to make it as close as possible to its original intent while not making it as busted (it is still absurdly good though... and I think it is still a badly designed ability. I despise the fact that you can immobilize with 2 opp and that totally make the regular item quality of snaring redundant.. so yeah, it is a trash design this ability, like Pelting Arrow is a trash design, but I don't want to "rewrite it all"... so I just slightly made it more in line)

Coiling Serpent Strike: 

change the opportunity usages to:

2opp+: choose a weapon the target has readied; that weapon cannot be used for attack actions until the end of your next turn. You must end your turn with the opponent still within reach of your weapon with the snaring quality otherwise this effect is automatically removed.

and,

2opp+: one target of your action per 2 opp spent this way becomes immobilized. You must end your turn with the opponent still within reach of your weapon with the snaring quality otherwise this effect is automatically removed.

Edited by Avatar111

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Avatar asked me to post here on suggestions for changes to bushi school abilities in the core rulebook.

I think most of them are fine as is. Hiruma maybe shouldn't work in duels.

The three I'd change are Akodo, Matsu, and Moto.

The Akodo is far too situational right now. I'd either take it back to the beta rules (which are as they are now, but doesn't damage you) or take it back to how they worked in older editions. As such:

Way of the Lion (school ability): When you make an attack you may choose to ignore either reduction from their armor (up to your school rank) or the benefits they get from their stance.

Matsu - the ability is just really bad right now. I'd change it as such:

Matsu's Fury (school ability): When you are hit (or crit) by an enemy, or an enemy gives you strife, you may choose to become enraged after their action resolves. If you do so, you remove strife and fatigue equal to your school rank. You may do this once per encounter.

Moto - It's really weak right now, as enemies can just choose to ignore you if you spend opportunities on them, and it doesn't work on the person you're attacking. I don't think the Moto really should get a bonus to armor TN at all, and they certainly shouldn't get All in Jest, as the job of the Ide Courtier is literally to do this for them. But trying to make minimal changes, I came up with this:

Swirling Desert Wind (school ability): When multiple opponents are within your weapon's reach, you may spend opportunities to add +1 to your TN to be hit and +1 to the damage your weapon inflicts. The effects of this last for one round.

 

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Still continuing to tweak the "maneuvre action" so that it is more versatile. I want the maneuvre action to accommodate as many situations as possible so that it becomes the sole necessary movement action needed for conflicts.

In the rule as written, the maneuvre action is missing many details that make it unclear or inflexible.

So here is my updated version, that tries to make the maneuvre action work with a lot of situations while staying true to its original intent.

(and I added an extra bit to it to avoid people disengaging too easily from vigilant characters)

 

Maneuvre (skirmish)

Description: you shift on the battlefield, moving to a more advantageous position.

Activation: As a Movement action, you may reposition for more distance. Optionally, you may make a TN 2 Fitness check as part of this action. If you are within reach of an opponent(s) unarmed or melee weapon, the TN of this check becomes the Vigilance of the opponent with the highest Vigilance.

effects: Move one range band. At the Gm's discretion, any jump under 5 foot can be automatically cleared as part of this action.

               If you choose to make the Fitness check, and you succeed, you may instead move two range bands, plus one additional range band per two bonus successes.

-If you intend to jump as part of this maneuvre action, you must say so before making the check. If you fail the check, you fall, otherwise you can jump over any distance of 10 foot or less. Jumping over 10 foot requires a Unique action.

-If you want to perform an athletic movement that is slower than running, like climbing or swimming, to move one range band you need to spend two range bands of movement.

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On 11/10/2018 at 8:24 AM, Avatar111 said:

want to make less change as possible to the rules (despite what it seems like!), And I just accepted that air was basically playing the game on "hard mode".

I'm still really not super happy nor really understanding about the lack of composure for courtiers and cranes especially as unmasking is often losing honor and they are not the characters I envision to have lower honor nor the characters that I feel would unmask often. But hey, so be it. 

The system uses air ring for both "ninjas/stealth" and "courtiers/smartassness" both of these things are a bit in opposition and i feel air ring stance effect and secondary stat are much more ninja than courtier as written right now... Though, there is no easy fix to that...

So yeah, playing a courtier is playing this game on "hard mode", because they are characters who deeply care about not unmasking (see; courtier's resolve versus warrior's resolve) but have low composure, and instead they "act fast" which is a bit useless in intrigues anyway.

But i don't really see how to make a fix that would suit the courtiers without changing the way ninjas/scouts/scorpions are (i learned to love air ring as is for them)...

So thats about it.

So, 

Coming from someone who is currently playing Bayushi Kyo (4 Composure; 8 Endurance), and had not a long exposure to the "game as played" yet, what do you think of this simple fix:

 

In Question 3: Character's Role (CR p. 56), make the following change:

Bushi: -2 Composure; +2 Endurance;

Courtiers: +2 Composure; - 2 Endurance;

Artisans: +2 Composure; - 2 Endurance(?);

Shugenja: +1 Composure; - 1 Endurance(?);

Monks: -1 Composure; +1 Endurance(?);

Shinobi: +1 Composure; - 1 Endurance.

 

I really don't know if this proposed solution solves your problem, or if there is a problem to begin with. Not convinced in either case, yet, I think it depends on the consequences of unmasking, but I was reading this thread and thought to put it out there.

 

 

Edited by OB-1

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4 minutes ago, OB-1 said:

So, 

Coming from someone who is currently playing Bayushi Kyo, and had not a long exposure to the played game yet, what do you think of this simple fix:

 

In Question 3: Character's Role (CR p. 56), make the following change:

Bushi: -2 Composure; +2 Endurance;

Courtiers: +2 Composure; - 2 Endurance;

Artisans: +2 Composure; - 2 Endurance(?);

Shugenja: +1 Composure; - 1 Endurance(?);

Monks: -1 Composure; +1 Endurance(?);

Shinobi: +1 Composure; - 1 Endurance.

 

I really don't know if this proposed solution solves your problem, or if there is a problem to begin with. Not convinced in either case, yet, I think it depends on the consequences of unmasking, but I was reading this thread and though to put it out there.

 

this is something I find very interesting.
it would also add a purpose to the types of schools!

though, I decided that some problems are more urgent than to fix the problem of low composure courtiers.
it is definitely something I don't agree with in the core rules, or at least, don't understand.

and yes, playing water/earth/fire from the get go is really strong compared to starting with void/air.
but i'm expecting that by rank 2-3 it evens out.
it just really sucks to start with endurance 4 and composure 6 because you are more void/air
compared to a earth/water character who will start with like endurance 8 and composure 12...

we're talking double. it is a bit swingy/unfair.

but as i've said.. some problems were more urgent and i'm trying to keep the houserule to a strict/clean minimum.

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5.4

I've done some clean up, to keep the changes as light as possible.
-Removed some of the conditions I had to use iaijutsu techniques, I only kept the most important. Sure, I still think it is weird to do an iaijutsu technique if you already have a weapon in your hand or offhand (and a bit gimmicky), but hey... For the sake of simplicity of changes I trimmed it.
-I removed the houserule about not using opportunities on resist rolls, I'll see how that goes.
-Removed the change to rushing avalanche (screw it, you can rushing avalanche with a Kiseru if you are so inclined to)
-Added some clarification to the "maneuvre" action, which I want to use for all movements so I needed to make it more versatile and flexible (and more precise for different types of situations like climbing, swimming, jumping, disengaging).


 

Edited by Avatar111

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5.5

now that I have more experience with duels in game, I decided on the below small adjustments;

-small adjustment to the Predict action change; the rule is now clearer and slightly favors the duellist who wins the initiative. I realised it needed to, because if losing the initiative gives an advantage in duelling then it kind of break the whole staredown purpose, the idea is to make staredown something the duellists WANTS to bid for. This is how you make the duels visceral; making the bid important/primordial, and giving the option/mindgame to bypass earth stance's effect by the second round at best.

-reverted the change to Battle in the Mind kata but kept the lower cost. the previous change, while interesting, was making the duels slightly slower and more complicated. This is something I want to avoid as I already added a free predict action each turn.

Edited by Avatar111

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I keep fine tuning the duel rules. Because, I like it.
This time, after some more discussing with the community, I want to test a variation on the Center action to make it a decent substitute to the Strike action;


I added that you can change your stance if you guessed right using the Center Action, this is yet another buff to the center action, allowing it the potential to be used a little more offensively (in the case you are able to push the opponent over his composure limit by guessing his prediction and using a stance of your choice for the finishing blow) Though I kept the predicted stance a non-option to be chosen when you switch stance to make sure the center action was not too strong of a counter strategy.

This way, Centering becomes usable offensively with a 25% reliability at least (random guessing the prediction), and more potent if you have a good vigilance score. But you still don't make any check using the Center action so it is a gamble as you kind of lose your turn doing it, and in the case the opponent's prediction was earth stance, you still cannot switch to earth stance, leaving you open to receive a critical hit.

We also have to remember that since you Predict at the beginning of your turn, the player who wins the initiative doesn't have the option to Center to guess his opponent's prediction on his first turn (since the opponent didn't predict yet). That in itself make sure to not overly empower the character winning the initiative, which is already in a good position, especially so that Iaijutsu Techniques can also do critical hits under my houserule and that since the opponent didn't predict yet, nothing stops the first player to pick earth stance right away and be immune to 1st turn critical hits from his opponent.

Thematically, I am ok that if you "Center" you are able to "Read the opponent's mind" and if you guess right "adopt a stance to counter his prediction".

Drawback; I do feel it slightly complicates thing though... So, considering the change to predict are in a good place (easy to use, straightforward and fun) how can the Center action be adjusted to be a good action ? without complicating duels too much?

The Center action as written is so utterly atrocious though... that if we don't alter it, it will NEVER be used.

think think think
 

 

 

PREDICT action changes:

-First, remove the "predict action" from the list of possible actions to execute during your turn.

-Second, make the "predict action" a non-action, free event called "predict" that a character participating in the duel must take at the beginning of their turn before choosing their stance.

-Predict: You must predict a ring between air/earth/fire/water (note it down, don't show it to your opponent). The next time your opponent chooses their stance, you may reveal the ring you predicted last; if it matches the stance they chose, your opponent receives strife equal to your vigilance score and their stance for the predicted ring doesn't provide its effect until the next time they choose a stance.

 

CENTER action changes:

-For the "center action", add on top of its current effect: after you use the center action, you may try to guess your opponent's prediction. You choose one ring between earth/fire/air/water then the opponent have to reveal the ring they predicted last. If you guessed right; you may immediately assume another stance that isn't the ring they predicted and the opponent receive strife equals to your vigilance. If you guessed wrong; you receive strife equal to their vigilance.

 

Iaijutsu Cut: Rising Blade:

add: 2 OPP: if you succeed, inflict a critical strike on your target with severity equal to your weapon's deadliness

 

Iaijutsu Cut: Crossing Blade:

increase the check to a TN 3

add: 2 OPP: if you succeed, inflict a critical strike on your target with a severity equal to your weapon's deadliness

Edited by Avatar111

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This thread is now over 10k views!

Lots of ❤️ to everybody who keep up with the sinuous process of polishing these everchanging houserules and to everybody who brought concerns and ideas to it.

No clue if anybody uses any of the rules presented here or why people keep up to date with the revisions behind their digital shoji screens, but this is appreciated.

This is a labour of love for me and more than just complain or change everything about the game that I absolutely enjoy, the idea is to put a little bit more polish and elbow grease while staying as true and close to the original design intentions (thanks to the designers for this awesome product with a lot of potential).

Changing as little as possible, while improving it as much as possible is what this is all about. I do not want to make a new game, and this needs to be clear. I am merely making a Design[air] refine check.

Cheers everybody!

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Just wanted to write and add that I really enjoy and use a lot of what you write here, so please keep at it!

Some of the things I modify/change wording; but in general great job!

 

Also, I really like that you add revision changes (I would ask that you let the changelog be a few more editions back)

Edited by CalmEyE

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Just to add to discussion and changes; we tried this rewrite for the Hiruma Scout school ability:

Once per skirmish or mass battle scene, when you make a check targeting or involving a Tainted being, you may add a number of kept set to ✽ results equal to your school rank. You cannot use this ability if you are unsure if a being is Tainted or not. Alternatively, you can add add a number of kept set to ✽ results equal to your school rank for a Maneuver action.

This does, however, drastically change the school.

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34 minutes ago, CalmEyE said:

Just to add to discussion and changes; we tried this rewrite for the Hiruma Scout school ability:

Once per skirmish or mass battle scene, when you make a check targeting or involving a Tainted being, you may add a number of kept set to ✽ results equal to your school rank. You cannot use this ability if you are unsure if a being is Tainted or not. Alternatively, you can add add a number of kept set to ✽ results equal to your school rank for a Maneuver action.

This does, however, drastically change the school.

Interesting, any reason for the drastic change?

I do like your version though.

I usually try to "fix", or make more fun, rather than totally change. Because if I totally change things (and sometimes, I agree it would probably be for the best!) then it becomes difficult for the players to follow the rules since it is not written in the core book.

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The major revision came up mostly because me and the player discussed how the current iteration didn't really make the Skirmisher very "skirmish:y" and it didn't tie into the Shadowlands other than there are a lot of large Oni. It did make them very very good at combat though. Having the flexibility of both Air and Earth as options for defense every round (more or less) was very strong. This was compounded when they fought off a bear without any kinds of problems. There was also a lot of talk regarding how the current rules make the Hiruma scout the premiere anti-cavalry (or just anti-large) fighters.

So, we did some brainstorming and settled on this. So far it seems to work for us, it fits nicely as it gives the character the ability to use it offensively if they know what they are fighting is tainted, but otherwise gives them a lot of flexibility in moving/repositioning.

That said, I do see your point to not make full out changes (as that can lead to a lot of extra work and almost rewriting an entire system).

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I really like your change, and it feels more Hiruma/skirmisher.

But I am reticent to do changes like that for my "fixes" as I find it is more like a "redesign" which I try to avoid for this generic fixes list.

But yeah, nice school ability you have there!

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On 4/29/2019 at 8:56 AM, CalmEyE said:

There was also a lot of talk regarding how the current rules make the Hiruma scout the premiere anti-cavalry (or just anti-large) fighters.

 

To be fair, some fluff from older editions mention that the Hiruma Scouts often cross trained with the Shinjo Scouts.  So if anyone outside of Unicorn knows how to take down mounted enemies, it'd be the Hiruma.

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On 2/10/2019 at 9:10 AM, Avatar111 said:

I keep fine tuning the duel rules. Because, I like it.
This time, after some more discussing with the community, I want to test a variation on the Center action to make it a decent substitute to the Strike action;


I added that you can change your stance if you guessed right using the Center Action, this is yet another buff to the center action, allowing it the potential to be used a little more offensively (in the case you are able to push the opponent over his composure limit by guessing his prediction and using a stance of your choice for the finishing blow) Though I kept the predicted stance a non-option to be chosen when you switch stance to make sure the center action was not too strong of a counter strategy.

This way, Centering becomes usable offensively with a 25% reliability at least (random guessing the prediction), and more potent if you have a good vigilance score. But you still don't make any check using the Center action so it is a gamble as you kind of lose your turn doing it, and in the case the opponent's prediction was earth stance, you still cannot switch to earth stance, leaving you open to receive a critical hit.

We also have to remember that since you Predict at the beginning of your turn, the player who wins the initiative doesn't have the option to Center to guess his opponent's prediction on his first turn (since the opponent didn't predict yet). That in itself make sure to not overly empower the character winning the initiative, which is already in a good position, especially so that Iaijutsu Techniques can also do critical hits under my houserule and that since the opponent didn't predict yet, nothing stops the first player to pick earth stance right away and be immune to 1st turn critical hits from his opponent.

Thematically, I am ok that if you "Center" you are able to "Read the opponent's mind" and if you guess right "adopt a stance to counter his prediction".

Drawback; I do feel it slightly complicates thing though... So, considering the change to predict are in a good place (easy to use, straightforward and fun) how can the Center action be adjusted to be a good action ? without complicating duels too much?

The Center action as written is so utterly atrocious though... that if we don't alter it, it will NEVER be used.

think think think
 

 

 

PREDICT action changes:

-First, remove the "predict action" from the list of possible actions to execute during your turn.

-Second, make the "predict action" a non-action, free event called "predict" that a character participating in the duel must take at the beginning of their turn before choosing their stance.

-Predict: You must predict a ring between air/earth/fire/water (note it down, don't show it to your opponent). The next time your opponent chooses their stance, you may reveal the ring you predicted last; if it matches the stance they chose, your opponent receives strife equal to your vigilance score and their stance for the predicted ring doesn't provide its effect until the next time they choose a stance.

 

CENTER action changes:

-For the "center action", add on top of its current effect: after you use the center action, you may try to guess your opponent's prediction. You choose one ring between earth/fire/air/water then the opponent have to reveal the ring they predicted last. If you guessed right; you may immediately assume another stance that isn't the ring they predicted and the opponent receive strife equals to your vigilance. If you guessed wrong; you receive strife equal to their vigilance.

 

Iaijutsu Cut: Rising Blade:

add: 2 OPP: if you succeed, inflict a critical strike on your target with severity equal to your weapon's deadliness

 

Iaijutsu Cut: Crossing Blade:

increase the check to a TN 3

add: 2 OPP: if you succeed, inflict a critical strike on your target with a severity equal to your weapon's deadliness

Sorry for the ignorant question, but do you have a file with your full, current set of rules revisions? I’d love to look at it in its entirety! 

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1 hour ago, AndyDay303 said:

Sorry for the ignorant question, but do you have a file with your full, current set of rules revisions? I’d love to look at it in its entirety! 

The current set of revision is basically the First post on this thread that I keep updating. This is a work in progress as I play more.

Now I changed Rising Blade Kata. I think I found a good solution to a problem with duels to first blood that was bugging me for a long time. Also, because of this change I could revert 2 other changes (I'm always happy to reduce the number of required houserules)

Take a look at it, and I am also very happy to hear comments and concerns about it!

edit: regarding the duel changes you have above, this was when I was tinkering with making the Predict and Center actions more useful while also making Iaijutsu duels more fun and viable. But I think the houserules came a long way since then... That was 5 months ago! The last version is a lot more clean while still achieving the similar results! The latest sourcebook Courts of Stone gave me a good and simple idea that I cannot find a drawback to. We will see...

Edited by Avatar111

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20 hours ago, Avatar111 said:


edit: regarding the duel changes you have above, this was when I was tinkering with making the Predict and Center actions more useful while also making Iaijutsu duels more fun and viable. But I think the houserules came a long way since then... That was 5 months ago! The last version is a lot more clean while still achieving the similar results! The latest sourcebook Courts of Stone gave me a good and simple idea that I cannot find a drawback to. We will see...

What is your current idea ? 

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57 minutes ago, AndyDay303 said:

What is your current idea ? 

Simply change Iaijutsu Cut: Rising Blade kata.

Add:

2 opportunity: if you succeed the target cannot defend against the damage.

(Also note that according to the official errata Rising Blade kata TN is equal to vigilance of the target).

 

 

Edited by Avatar111

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