How Open are Conflicts Between Clans?

[drbraininajar 143]

I'm about to start GMing for a couple groups, and while I know some of this falls under "your table your story", I'd still like to know more about this particular topic.

How much actual open conflict is there among the clans of Rokugan? I was initially under the impression that they all mostly worked together (more or less) , with some of them just not fully trusting/liking each other, and most of the conflict between them being political maneuvering and the like. But, reading up on more of the recent fluff/lore, it mentions things like the Mantis Clan raiding villages/boats, and the Unicorn and Lion Clans doing battle and the like.

So is it mostly political maneuvering and the actual conflicts are outliers, or are some of the Clans constantly at each others throats with the Emperor spending most of his time trying to tell them all to play nice? Somewhere in between? Enlighten me, O sages!

 

[UnitOmega 2,818]

Well, so every clan basically knows of summer as the "war" season, where they might call up soldiers for drills, exercises, etc. 

While officially "war" between Great Clans has to be sanctioned by the Emperor, Rokugan is well known as a place of polite fictions, so if you say, have an "accident" where some bushi get lost and accidentally cross a border and bump into some other bushi on exercises and it ends up with a few dozen dead samurai and lower-rank soldiers and then afterward you just say in court "oh, terrible misunderstanding, definitely not a war" there has to be some pretty telling testimony it was actually an act of war in order to receive imperial rebuke for the act. I would expect physically neighboring clans (at least, when they don't get along) often engage in such exercises to keep themselves sharp and remind the others of their potential military prowess. This is also discounting legal actions which are "definitely not war" but may also involve violence, the Lion/Unicorn conflict for instance starts when the Lion seek to "reclaim" a castle they seceded to the Unicorn as part of a marriage deal which had since been rescinded, so obviously they still own the castle right, and can tell the unicorn to get out. Now when those dastardly Unicorns come back and drive out the Lion and shed Samurai blood this is a legit grievance which can be brought before the Emperor to make an actual demand for official "War". 

I don't know if the Emperor does a lot of time managing the clans, since, in fact, the Otomo's role in Imperial politics is to keep the Great Clans busy with themselves so they can't focus on rebelling against the emperor, but there's definitely a lot of tension as written in the setting which can vary from just pragmatic ("No mr Crab, the Crane can't ship you any extra jade or rice because we need material wealth for ourselves to hire Ronin because the Lion are making rumblings on our borders") to serious, long standing rivalries which have existed for 1000 years. Open conflict probably depends a lot on current political climate and also geography. If you're a southern clan, and the Phoenix or Dragon are doing something which is annoying you, it's a lot easier to level accusations and call for imperial sanctions on them in major courts than it is to grab an army and march it overland to force them to comply with your demands. But if you're in neighboring territories, you can totally drum up an army and hop the border to demand satisfaction. If such acts count as "wars" really depends on who would call it a "war" and not just "a border dispute" or "a misunderstanding" or "a matter of honor between samurai". 

How severe or exactly frequent this is really does depend on "your table your story" aspects. You can go from "yeah small groups of young samurai skirmish on borders all the time to cut their teeth and gain glory but nobody takes it seriously (until they do)" to "every summer the Great Clans call their legions and smack about on neighboring clans to vy for political and military power and positioning and the Emperor pretends not to notice unless it would seriously upset the balance of [imperial] power". All depends on your needs as a GM. 

Edited October 27, 2018 by UnitOmega

[Magnus Grendel 11,672]

This.

As long as you can make a credible argument in court that "it's not actually a war", you're fine. How easily you can push that line is a balancing act between political clout and how widespread the fighting actually is.

It's basically the same load of excrement a lot of NATO and GCC nations have been using for what must be 3/4 of a century now - let me be clear before anyone takes offence; I'm not saying military intervention isn't justified in a lot of cases - watching generations of DOD/MOD/DGA/MODA spokesmen dance around euphemisms instead of using the word 'war' as if somehow that means people won't notice that we're bombing/invading somewhere often verges on the ridiculous.

[UnitOmega 2,818]

"The Lion Clan armies are merely in a peacekeeping operation in the Unicorn town which was recently overrun by Ronin, we'll give it back as soon as the Unicorn are stable", "The Scorpion army only crossed the border into Crane lands to eliminate a bandit force plaguing both Clans", "The Crab were pursuing a shadowlands creature, any rice that mysteriously went missing was tainted and destroyed, and definitely not eaten by Crab"

[Suzume Chikahisa 313]

How open do you want it to be? Ultimately that's a question only you can answer.

 

Having said that here are some things you may want to consider:

From the Emperor's POV, inter-clan warfare is bad news. Full stop.

It messes with tax collecting, it tends to escalate out of control, creates grudges and puts ideas in people's heads. Bad ideas. The "If the Emperor can't enforce order why the heck I'm paying him taxes" or "In this age of strife surely the Hantei have lost the Mandate of Heaven" kind of bad ideas. And the Kami help you if you're seen stirring **** up or playing favourites.

So with a strong Emperor or EC you can bet inter-clan warfare will be down, not necessarily eliminated, but down.

The problem is of course that not all Emperors are strong or is the EC a neutral party. And sometimes, sometimes **** just happens.

 

For example, most of the Ki-Rin follow Shinjo out of the Empire, leaving only a few token samurai overseeing their lands. Naturally, the Lion (and the Scorpion, lets face it, it's a big plot of land) move on to secure the Empire's border. Now Hantei Genji realizes that while the Lion (and the Scorpion) are being ***** it's not like the Ki-Rin holdouts can actually fully protect the western border. So he tranfers them to southern Rokugan, renames them Fox and creates the legal entity of the Minor Clans, that can't be attacked by the Great Clans. Not that it saved the Snake from the Phoenix. Or the Sparrow and Hare from the Scorpion. Or the Dragonfly from the Lion.

 

Now, some 800 years later, some gaijin calling themselves Unicorn punch trough the Crab defenses, the Scorpion, the Lion and, somehow convince the Emperor that they are the Ki-Rin returned and that they sould totes get their land back. The lands that had belonged to Lion lord for nearly thirty generations. The lands for which the Lion had bled. And just like that, on the word of some gaijin, dozens of Lion lords are disposessed, the Clan's income slashed and their holdings reassigned.

Try putting a leash on the grudges created by that.

 

Or for instance some Oni Lord puts a large proportion of Crab lands to the torch. Sure, the Crab kick its *** back into Jigoku, but their crops are still ashes, their people need to be fed and it just so happens that the unspoiled fertile lands of the Scropion are to the north, and the unspoiled fertile lands of the Crane are to the East... I wonder what would a beleaguered Crab Lord do at the end of havest season...

 

So Clan warfare is as open and frequent as they are allowed to get away with it.

[Delahunt444 7]

On 10/27/2018 at 1:40 AM, UnitOmega said:

"The Lion Clan armies are merely in a peacekeeping operation in the Unicorn town which was recently overrun by Ronin, we'll give it back as soon as the Unicorn are stable", "The Scorpion army only crossed the border into Crane lands to eliminate a bandit force plaguing both Clans", "The Crab were pursuing a shadowlands creature, any rice that mysteriously went missing was tainted and destroyed, and definitely not eaten by Crab"

Look man, it was a border skirmish. We disagreed on where the line was, agreed to send to the Imperial Archives to find out, but before the herald got back the skirmish had spread to the city. Now the Crane can't defend it anymore - because they're all dead of glorious battle wounds - and so we're just holding it to keep the villagers safe. Coincidentally, we've just submitted this new map to the Imperial Archives showing that the border actually put this city in our care all along. We're asking the Crane for reparations from the generations we weren't able to collect taxes from here. Of course we'll be making amends to the Imperial Coffers as well.

[AK_Aramis 1,002]

On 10/26/2018 at 5:23 PM, drbraininajar said:

I'm about to start GMing for a couple groups, and while I know some of this falls under "your table your story", I'd still like to know more about this particular topic.

How much actual open conflict is there among the clans of Rokugan? I was initially under the impression that they all mostly worked together (more or less) , with some of them just not fully trusting/liking each other, and most of the conflict between them being political maneuvering and the like. But, reading up on more of the recent fluff/lore, it mentions things like the Mantis Clan raiding villages/boats, and the Unicorn and Lion Clans doing battle and the like.

So is it mostly political maneuvering and the actual conflicts are outliers, or are some of the Clans constantly at each others throats with the Emperor spending most of his time trying to tell them all to play nice? Somewhere in between? Enlighten me, O sages!

 

Depends upon the exact timeframe, and your GMing needs.

In the "current" chunk of the divergent timeline, it's a powder keg with a lit match.

If  you play in the "past" by a hundred years or so, it's more cooperative, but still subterfuge-ish inter-clan rivalries and small skirmishes. But there are parts in the past where it was open warfare.

[Wyrmdog 54]

Given the realities of a feudal political system - at least the way I understand it - inter-clan warfare is common but not constant, and is a necessary evil. Rokugan exists in a near-perpetual state of hybrid space between the Sengoku and Tokugawa periods. There is a central governing authority, but the Great Clans are like teenagers who are in reality stronger than their parent. The Emperor and the Imperial seat maintains power by positioning the clans in opposition to one another so that none dare take the step of deposing the dynasty. Should the throne enforce a strident peace between the clans to the point where those breaking the peace are meaningfully punished, one clan will eventually play the game well enough to take power in all but name. One could argue that the Crane are quite near that point as it is. Alternatively, an enemy to the Chrysanthemum Throne is created via consistent, repeated sanction. Regardless, the Emperor may not like the conflicts and may take steps to prevent, extinguish, or otherwise discourage total war, but the throne cannot and will not severely punish any clan that does not actively threaten the stability of the empire at large. This is how places like Toshi Ranbo can be such common flashpoints. War, diplomacy, detente...rinse, repeat.

Besides, each Great Clan is a nation unto itself in many ways, and while they bend the knee to the Emperor, they also know full well that they can frequently ignore or pervert dictums they dislike so long as they put a pretty face on it. Plausible deniability is big, yes, but so is cynically asking forgiveness rather than asking permission. The greatest tool the Emperor has to enforce any sort of status quo is siccing the other clans on any blatantly disrespectful or aggressive actor. The clans keep each other in check, particularly when they have the mandate of the Emperor to kick the Lion out of occupied Southern Dragon-istan after a particularly bloody war.

The clans have a vested interest in keeping the Imperial seat largely militarily toothless but cannot take away its divine mandate and the cultural and social weight it carries. It's a delicate balancing act but they all know that without the Chrysanthemum Throne, the weaker among them would easily fall prey to the more powerful. Additionally, they resist further consolidation of power to the Throne. It is one of the few things all the clans agree upon. The Throne in turn cultivates close relationships with some minor clans and powerful families such as the Tortoise and later, the Monkey. These clans are afforded protection by the Emperor and often also serve as additional deterrents to overt ambition. They may be small, but coupled with the smattering of Imperial legions, they can come together to make a potent force given the right circumstances. But more than the military might they provide, they also provide for functions critical to the Empire the other clans cannot or will not do, and the Emperor has been known to exploit these roles to get things done.

Further, the Otomo exist in large part to keep the clans pointed at each other and not at the throne (in addition to providing a safe landing zone for potential rivals to the throne). Therefore, no matter what the official position may be about official sanction for war, the reality is that the throne itself often encourages conflict between the Great Clans. The Miya then set about their mission of propaganda and the Throne can cluck at the perpetrators and exact concessions for those it favors.

Long story short, war is as open as you want it to be. I tend to keep clans from going after one another with too much relish just because they don't want to sap their ability to wage war on another front should a rival clan see an opening due to the first war. This keeps the Emperor from having to do much more than wag his finger most of the time and call out a few scapegoats for punishment when needed. A concession here, a payment there, and everyone goes back to the starting gate.

At least, this is my poorly-explained layman's understanding of how a feudal system like this one might work.

 

I like to give my wars real cause. My current plan is that a famine in Crab lands makes them desperate to trade for food to feed their soldiers and populace. Plague is the inevitable outcome of the misery and they need to prevent that. So they approach the Crane, Scorpion, Mantis, and Unicorn for their largess. Problematically, an exuberant Crab commander begins raids on Crane lands when the Crane hold out for better prices. The Scorpion rarely have much extra and thus charge highly for it (not to mention they are still recovering from a decades-long civil war). Still, they acquiesce. Should the Crab fall, the Scorpion may be protected somewhat by the Shinomen, but not enough to gamble. The Mantis are amenable but have little to sell as well. My game is set in 1162 with events post-Clan War being mostly driven by my own campaigns and not the old AEG timeline, so the Unicorn are barely a generation from open revolt by Moto Chagatai and resent the Crab's refusal to march with them back then. They extort high prices from the Crab.

Meanwhile, the Mantis, Scorpion, and Unicorn are all fighting a shadow war in Ryoko Owari for control of the black market there. They all come to blows here over the Crab trade and suddenly supplies to the Crab from the Scorpion dry up as they convert food to payment for mercenaries and gangs to proxy in the conflict, the Unicorn become too distracted to get their caravans through, and the Mantis suddenly need to route personnel and supplies overland through Ryoko Owari using non-existent Crane ships as their excuse.

The Crab, growing more desperate believe the Scorpion are soft targets and march on them even as war sparks in the southern Crane lands. Eventually, they will find their way to southern Unicorn lands as well, as they keep the Crane war low-key and mostly raids. Meanwhile the Crane are jockeying with the Lion over accusations of too much Imperial influence (in my game the Crane have WAY too much blood in the ruling family post-Hantei and there are very real power-balance abuses going on courtesy of my players' short-sightedness), though there are no large-scale conflicts schedules, just some tense brushfire exchanges and proxies in Toshi Ranbo. Anyway, I have it all spiraling outward including a plot by the Imperial Consort to get revenge for the Empress' shenanigans which will draw the Scorpion, Lion, and Crane into a 3-way conflict.

All these actions will be defended in the Imperial Courts, the Emperor's Winter Court, and so on. Everything military has a political element, just as every political move has a sword ready to spring into action. The goal, as always, is to get the players involved to see if they can broker peace or win wars as they see fit.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Wyrmdog
=P