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Imperial Navy Core Rulebook?

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

 

 

34 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

I'm not going back and forth with you. I've already reported you. Happy New Year and welcome to the ignore list.

So when I tell the truth and call you out and question your posts, I’m reported?  Seems about right.  Good grief.

Edited by Rogo727

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Rogo727 said:

What four books has “they” released last year?  When you say yearish do you mean 2-3 years??  “They” have relesed only one book over the last year and half.

 

I'm a sucker for punishment, I guess.

The "3 or 4" books from 2018 were;

Fully Operational (March 2018)
Unlimited Power (May 2018)
Knights of Fate (June 2018)
Cyphers and Masks (August 2018).

That said, you are certainly entitled to your opinions, Rogo, but our pirate friend has spent a long time here and has solid information. If he was offered a playtest, regardless of his accepting it or not, it shows that FFG is still going to produce, counter to your assumption. The "canary in the coalmine" interpretation you had of 2P51's not running a campaign in the system being an indicator of the games health is logically unsustainable. I'm not currently running a Star Wars game at the moment, yet I'm still doing the WEG conversions still. The two have no correlation - there are a plethora of potential reasons as to his refusal that have nothing to do with the game - or even gaming in general - that would explain his choice.

In the end, I hope you do stay positive as you said you would try to do, having also lived from launch to death of every iteration of the RPG myself, I understand your fear of once again having to start a new shelf for another game line of Star Wars books. I have a collection that is similar to yours I'm sure, and the pain (both monetarily and in blood sweat and tears poured into personal content) of collecting, learning, crafting and running stories in changing systems is real, but don't give up on FFG through judgement clouded by the fear of past experiences, that will just lead to hesitation to continue telling stories in the system, and causing you to begin to resent the lack of commitment and increasing distance, (you already are starting to exhibit a resentment towards FFG) leading to arguments and angry, hurt feelings. This will cause others to hate you, and you to hate others for the conflict, and when that happens, the whole community suffers....

Edited by Kyla
spelling and grammar

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6 hours ago, Rogo727 said:

Kinda have to respond to this because , not only because after reading several of your posts, you seem to think your a big deal (you arn’t Just saying).  First your math is off, and making fun of dementia to anyone is really not cool.  Shame on you.  If the 1st edition rules are so bad why did FFG reprint the original, and I dare you to go over to that forum and say it’s trash.  Looks like you have very little knowledge about what was produced during this time.  I realize of course this is your opinion, (thank goodness for a quick google search aye?) and that’s all on you.  Look forward to you’re response.

 

Why did they reprint the first edition rules: Nostalgia dollars.  I played WEG for years in all of its editions.  I know very well the flaws inherent in the system.  There's a lot of things people can do, that maybe they shouldn't do.  You know, if they released a blue ray of the Holiday Special they'd make a ton of money.  That wouldn't make the Holiday Special "good."

Where is my math off?  I count 3 core books (1st ed, 2nd ed and 2nd ed Revised and Expanded) + 101 sourcebooks/supplements. Most of those I owned, read, skimmed, borrowed, referenced or otherwise interacted with enough to form an opinion of the writing and development.  I said 10 pieces of that (if you break the trilogy book into three books) is worth owning.  That's about 10% of the line.  What's your math?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Roleplaying_Game#List_of_supplements

Why din't I go to the WEG forum and argue it there?  Because that would be stupid and a gigantic waste of my time. 

Also, niggling point here.  Making fun of dementia is not the same as making fun of an actual dementia patient.  But w/e.  

Finally, I don't think I'm a big deal.  I've just got opinions.  Sometimes they're right.

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, Kyla said:

I'm a sucker for punishment, I guess.

The "3 or 4" books from 2018 were;

Fully Operational (March 2018)
Unlimited Power (May 2018)
Knights of Fate (June 2018)
Cyphers and Masks (August 2018).

That said, you are certainly entitled to your opinions, Rogo, but our pirate friend has spent a long time here and has solid information. If he was offered a playtest, regardless of his accepting it or not, it shows that FFG is still going to produce, counter to your assumption. The "canary in the coalmine" interpretation you had of 2P51's not running a campaign in the system being an indicator of the games health is logically unsustainable. I'm not currently running a Star Wars game at the moment, yet I'm still doing the WEG conversions still. The two have no correlation - there are a plethora of potential reasons as to his refusal that have nothing to do with the game - or even gaming in general - that would explain his choice.

In the end, I hope you do stay positive as you said you would try to do, having also lived from launch to death of every iteration of the RPG myself, I understand your fear of once again having to start a new shelf for another game line of Star Wars books. I have a collection that is similar to yours I'm sure, and the pain (both monetarily and in blood sweat and tears poured into personal content) of collecting, learning, crafting and running stories in changing systems is real, but don't give up on FFG through judgement clouded by the fear of past experiences, that will just lead to hesitation to continue telling stories in the system, and causing you to begin to resent the lack of commitment and increasing distance, (you already are starting to exhibit a resentment towards FFG) leading to arguments and angry, hurt feelings. This will cause others to hate you, and you to hate others for the conflict, and when that happens, the whole community suffers....

Edited by Rogo727

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17 hours ago, Zrob314 said:

Why did they reprint the first edition rules: Nostalgia dollars.  I played WEG for years in all of its editions.  I know very well the flaws inherent in the system.  There's a lot of things people can do, that maybe they shouldn't do.  You know, if they released a blue ray of the Holiday Special they'd make a ton of money.  That wouldn't make the Holiday Special "good."

Where is my math off?  I count 3 core books (1st ed, 2nd ed and 2nd ed Revised and Expanded) + 101 sourcebooks/supplements. Most of those I owned, read, skimmed, borrowed, referenced or otherwise interacted with enough to form an opinion of the writing and development.  I said 10 pieces of that (if you break the trilogy book into three books) is worth owning.  That's about 10% of the line.  What's your math?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Roleplaying_Game#List_of_supplements

Why din't I go to the WEG forum and argue it there?  Because that would be stupid and a gigantic waste of my time. 

Also, niggling point here.  Making fun of dementia is not the same as making fun of an actual dementia patient.  But w/e.  

Finally, I don't think I'm a big deal.  I've just got opinions.  Sometimes they're right.

So you are saying I suffer from dementia?  You are calling me an actual patient of that>boy you are more knoledable than I know.  Btw  in your post you called me me mid 40’s sorry, and corrected your math.  Sorry I had to explain that to you.  But I wouldn’t want to you to reread your post and actually think.  Yes you got plenty of opinions,  and there right accourding to above all else you right?

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36 minutes ago, Rogo727 said:

 

Had to rethink this a bit, I don’t know anyone on here.  I shouldn’t be such a Debbie downer,  I’ll continue to work on my Imperial/dark side conversions and will upload them here.  I’ll stay awhay and just read and not post.  Peace and I do love starwars!

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On 12/17/2018 at 5:08 PM, Rogo727 said:

Check this guy out^^^, was  a junior in high school when WEG released their first starwars book, I have every mod and sourcebook since.  Look I’m not going to poke fun at you, I see you have a lot of posts, After all everyone has a lot to say right?  I’m guessing you never witnessed the end of WEG or WOTC.   FFG is doing the same thing (things) that WOTC did near the end of that line.  Yeah call me a noob, I’m just getting into this.

So in the context of your post I read it as "I(Rogo727) was  a junior in high school when WEG released their first starwars book, I have every mod and sourcebook since." It is unclear in the context but I took the 50/50.  So, a person who was a junior in high school would likely be 15-17 years old.  The book was released in 87, the post was made in 2018 that means that in December 2018 a person who was a junior in high school when the book came out was 46-48 years old, which very easily fits into the descriptor of "mid-40s".  I'll be ignoring your faux outrage over references to dementia because I don't believe you're arguing that in good faith.  Maybe it is best that you go back to lurking.  You're really getting super angry about something that isn't that important.  

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Back to the main topic, it seems they are still slowly churning material for all systems after reaching it maturity, which is good. However, still nothing for the Imperial side it seems. They are sitting on a mine of untapped material and it makes me think that they are deliberately avoiding it for whatever reason, by moral obligation or naive idealism that people only want to play the good guys forever.

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34 minutes ago, Hordeoverseer said:

Back to the main topic, it seems they are still slowly churning material for all systems after reaching it maturity, which is good. However, still nothing for the Imperial side it seems. They are sitting on a mine of untapped material and it makes me think that they are deliberately avoiding it for whatever reason, by moral obligation or naive idealism that people only want to play the good guys forever.

Or by license owner directive.

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51 minutes ago, WolfRider said:

You can play an imperial without him / her being a space nazi.

Ymmv but I have a hard time envisioning a racist or racist enabler, goose stepping servant of a fascist regime otherwise. Hey it’s my take on them and if you can get something out of a sourcebook I hope they print one.

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Real WW2 history has a number of examples of Germans in government and the military who thought of themselves as loyal to Germany but not to Hitler (the degree to which they were loyal to the Nazi party and its odious principles varied), so... Yeah there ARE stories to tell.
But that is a very complex situation to work in and I applaud individual gaming groups for wanting to tackle it.  However I think it is outside the scope of a gaming source book for a high profile franchise that already keeps it's fascist villains' tendencies more superficial than explored. 


Not exactly what we are discussing but you will get the idea: 

 

Edited by Aluminium Falcon
spelling and grammer

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15 hours ago, HorusArisen said:

Can’t really imagine wanting to play space nazis

Good point.  A lot of the major and well-known imagery of the Empire (and by extension the First Order) does draw very heavily from Nazi Germany, to the point that it's the exceptions that stand out more.

And with the political culture being what it currently is, I doubt FFG (or even Lucasfilm for that matter) want to publish a book that even on the surface appears to encourage the players to be those sorts of characters.  Considering what happened to White Wolf in the wake of some missteps made in supplements for their Vampire: Masquerade 5th edition (and that being a game that's already "edgy" in terms of subject material, what with the focus on playing vampires as actual monsters of the night rather than the tragic romantic figures of Anne Rice and Twilight fame/infamy).

That said, I do think having a supplement for AoR, or more likely a multi-line book like Dawn of Rebellion, Rise of the Separatists, and the recent Allies and Adversaries isn't a bad idea, as it's a place where FFG can go into more detail about how the Galactic Empire, both in terms of the military and the general populace operate, and even include a chapter with tips on running an all-Imperials campaign and avoiding the many pitfalls that result in a great many of those campaigns doing a crash and burn due to inter-party in-fighting caused by the generally cutthroat nature of the Imperial command structure.

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On 1/11/2019 at 1:21 PM, WolfRider said:

You can play an imperial without him / her being a space nazi.

It's pretty difficult.  Even if you're not a space nazi you're some level of space fascist or extreme space authoritarian, or you're working in support of such a regime. 

It was even all there in the Tie Fighter.  Yes, you are portrayed as a defender of peace and order in the galaxy, but you're also inducted into the Emperor's secret order.  

A bunch of my friends did do separate games where one group was imperials and one group was rebels and the same GM ran them both.  

I think it would be really important to have some serious Session 0 talks if you were going to do this.  Just lay it all out, This is what the empire does cononcially.  What sort of game do we want to have?  What sort of topics do you want to explore or avoid?  How fashy do you want to get with this?

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4 minutes ago, Galakk Fyyar said:

Personal politics, whatever yours may be, don't really matter in this case.

It's a game. Play it however, and play whomever, you want.

Which is why I suggested what I did.  It's cool if you want to ignore the text for a different interpretation, but maybe make sure everyone else at your table wants to do the same.  I've played in plenty of evil games, I've played plenty of twisted characters.  But sometimes you find out someone wants to play dark or evil for deeper and more suspect reasons that I would and I'd like the opportunity to not partake in that.  

 

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3 minutes ago, Zrob314 said:

Which is why I suggested what I did.  It's cool if you want to ignore the text for a different interpretation, but maybe make sure everyone else at your table wants to do the same.  I've played in plenty of evil games, I've played plenty of twisted characters.  But sometimes you find out someone wants to play dark or evil for deeper and more suspect reasons that I would and I'd like the opportunity to not partake in that. 

To each their own I suppose. I just think a book like that should be made regardless of politics.

Edited by Galakk Fyyar

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On 1/12/2019 at 10:46 PM, Galakk Fyyar said:

To each their own I suppose. I just think a book like that should be made regardless of politics.

I think that'd be a difficult task, to be honest.  Sure, FFG could put blasters and AT-ATs in there, but the flavor text is the part that's likely giving them pause.

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On 1/11/2019 at 9:18 PM, HorusArisen said:

Ymmv but I have a hard time envisioning a racist or racist enabler, goose stepping servant of a fascist regime otherwise. Hey it’s my take on them and if you can get something out of a sourcebook I hope they print one.

Even Luke wanted to join the Navy.

Bunch of young, idealistic kids getting their first assignment and ready to secure peace for the galaxy having the reality of what service entails thrust upon them - and whether they'll continue - seems like a great jumping point for a campaign to me.

Edited by Arbitrator

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8 minutes ago, Arbitrator said:

Even Luke wanted to join the Navy.

Bunch of young, idealistic kids getting their first assignment and ready to secure peace for the galaxy having the reality of what service entails thrust upon them - and whether they'll continue - seems like a great jumping point for a campaign to me.

Yes but a jumping point to a rebellion game for me, like I said ymmv.

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25 minutes ago, Arbitrator said:

Even Luke wanted to join the Navy.

Bunch of young, idealistic kids getting their first assignment and ready to secure peace for the galaxy having the reality of what service entails thrust upon them - and whether they'll continue - seems like a great jumping point for a campaign to me.

Worked pretty well as the plot of Lost Stars.

16 minutes ago, HorusArisen said:

Yes but a jumping point to a rebellion game for me, like I said ymmv.

Depends on the character(s). In the aforementioned Lost Stars, one of the two main characters did defect to the Rebellion. The other didn’t, yet still didn’t become an evil space Nazi.

That’s not to say one should run/play in a campaign that doesn’t appeal to them. But, just pointing out that decent people serving the Empire without becoming (to borrow a phrase) twisted and evil can be - and has been - done.

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36 minutes ago, Arbitrator said:

Even Luke wanted to join the Navy.

Bunch of young, idealistic kids getting their first assignment and ready to secure peace for the galaxy having the reality of what service entails thrust upon them - and whether they'll continue - seems like a great jumping point for a campaign to me.

Technically, all he wanted to do was join the academy. That's not the same thing. Not everyone who joins the Academy ends up in the Navy. Some go on to join the crews of Merchant ships, other go on to the science academy, etc. 

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