Trying to fix Rising Cut

[AtoMaki 1,431]

2 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

Kakita have nothing. Nothing at all except iaijutsu one rank earlier and heartpiercing one rank earlier

The Kakita does not get Heartpiercing Strike one rank earlier. It is the Mirumoto Swordmaster who does, the Kakita Rank-3-to-2 kata is Thunderclap Strike. 

[Amanda the Panda 62]

4 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

Kakita have nothing. Nothing at all except iaijutsu one rank earlier and heartpiercing one rank earlier and lady doji decree (that all cranes can take).

And hes stuck with 3 air.

We need to come clean with the fact that kakita sux at what he should be good at.

That's fine, but what you quoted was nothing to do with the Kakita and everything to do with the Utaku.

[Amanda the Panda 62]

4 minutes ago, AtoMaki said:

I'm only counting standard iaijutsu duels for the ranking. The Shinjo Outrider gets that high because -1 TN is huge. 

In a standard Iaijutsu duel, no way is the horse getting involved. If he does, the Shinjo is disqualified for interference

[AtoMaki 1,431]

7 minutes ago, Amanda the Panda said:

In a standard Iaijutsu duel, no way is the horse getting involved. If he does, the Shinjo is disqualified for interference

That's why I noted that the ranking only lives if the player can get some horse shenanigan rolling. Otherwise, the Shinjo is with 'everyone else'. 

[Avatar111 553]

19 minutes ago, AtoMaki said:

The Kakita does not get Heartpiercing Strike one rank earlier. It is the Mirumoto Swordmaster who does, the Kakita Rank-3-to-2 kata is Thunderclap Strike. 

oof poor Kakita..How could they do that to him!!!!

I really feel the Cranes and the Scorpion got the shaft in this edition.... and Matsu

except Asahina... with the new clarification that chick is top tier. like, REALLY good. (not for duels).

[Amanda the Panda 62]

I think I am going to house rule that any attack action can crit. It buffs the Kakita's ability to win at low levels a little. Earth stance is still a bit good though

[Ikiry0 26]

Perhaps earth should have worked like Air? +1 Opportunity to crit, +2 at rank 4+?

[omnicrone 159]

30 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

oof poor Kakita..How could they do that to him!!!!

I really feel the Cranes and the Scorpion got the shaft in this edition.... and Matsu

except Asahina... with the new clarification that chick is top tier. like, REALLY good. (not for duels).

I don't think you understood Intrigue/Narrative scene mechanics enough, otherwise you wouldn't sleep on how good the Doji courtier's technique really is and the starting attendant/vassal samurai they get is great. They also start Water3/Air3 easily, which is the best Courtier ring spread by a mile.

Btw the Daidoji are still the best Yojimbo (though Shiba now comes very close) in the business, as they were in 4E.

Edited November 1, 2018 by omnicrone

[Ikiry0 26]

I personally give Shiba the edge due to the unique phoenix trick/being able to serve in a courtly capacity better (Not all threats are on the battlefield). Still, both are good.

[omnicrone 159]

1 minute ago, Ikiry0 said:

I personally give Shiba the edge due to the unique phoenix trick/being able to serve in a courtly capacity better (Not all threats are on the battlefield). Still, both are good.

They need to help in court because both the Isawa and Asako are such nerds. Asahina and Doji don't need much help with courtly stuff. But yeah, I really like Shiba as yojimbo in this edition as opposed to the void point strike one trick ponies they were in 4E.

[Avatar111 553]

Shiba are a really cool school in this edition! well designed. two thumbs up.

but i think many schools are salvageable with minor "tweaks". and since i'm a sucker for balance, i'm having fun figuring out the best way to do it

[TalosX 184]

3 hours ago, Avatar111 said:

Shiba are a really cool school in this edition! well designed. two thumbs up.

but i think many schools are salvageable with minor "tweaks". and since i'm a sucker for balance, i'm having fun figuring out the best way to do it

Well, if you figure out how to fix the Kakita Duelist, let me know!

[Avatar111 553]

17 minutes ago, TalosX said:

Well, if you figure out how to fix the Kakita Duelist, let me know!

you can go check my houserule. theres a topic in the houserule section.

but basically;

I use Air in composure calculation instead of Earth.

I changed Earth stance

I made both iaijutsu technique able to deliver critical strikes.

 

won't go into detail here, but you can check my changes and try to understand how it makes him slightly more viable (still not "the best" but definitely not weak).

basically hes a threat early on simply because of his iaijutsu technique and decent composure and initiative, which enables him to win "to first strike" with a lucky roll vs low vigilance opponents. but at low ranks, everybody have a chance... you can always water-strike and get a crit too.. under my rules the initiative is SUPER important (because i remove the stupid blocking that earth stance was doing),  which makes the staredown bidding crucial (as it should be).

 

later on, his basic school technique helps him win "to first blood" because crit severity 5 is not that easy to achieve after resist check! and Kakita is the one that can probably pull them off without relying on putting the opponent incapacitated.

 

there is a very big difference between "to first strike" and "to first blood".

i think low rank Kakita can win "to first strike" decently well, but "to first blood" is harder for him as you probably need to rely on putting the opponent incapacitated to deal that 5+severity crit. Once he gets a few school rank (+severity), roll more dices and have a few techniques (lady doji's decree) he can buff up one mighty strike to get that crit in one shot with some decent luck.

for a duel "to incapacitated" Kakita is not your man though. There are much better choices than him.

Edited November 2, 2018 by Avatar111

[Ikiry0 26]

I mean, I'm ok with a Kakita not winning every single duel type ever. Unless there is plans to also give him options for spell duels.

[TalosX 184]

2 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

you can go check my houserule. theres a topic in the houserule section.

but basically;

I use Air in composure calculation instead of Earth.

I changed Earth stance

I made both iaijutsu technique able to deliver critical strikes.

Yeah, I've seen your changes.  At the moment, I'm considering revising the rules for duels specific to iaijutsu.  Because as is, they don't follow the spirit or even the lore as to the nature of iaijutsu duels.

[Avatar111 553]

1 minute ago, Ikiry0 said:

I mean, I'm ok with a Kakita not winning every single duel type ever. Unless there is plans to also give him options for spell duels.

indeed. im fine with him also being more of a "first strike" "first blood" duelist than a duelist to the death in full armor.

i see him more as a courtier/duelist than a 1v1 machine of doom.

[Avatar111 553]

4 minutes ago, TalosX said:

Yeah, I've seen your changes.  At the moment, I'm considering revising the rules for duels specific to iaijutsu.  Because as is, they don't follow the spirit or even the lore as to the nature of iaijutsu duels.

so yeah, under my rules.

lets say opponent is in earth stance and have vigilance 3 (vigilance also earth now)

you would need 3TN and 3OPP to crit him with rising blade. making it.. no small task. but.. doable.

with the right "setup" (void or air opportunity during ini, mostly) and use a void point to roll an extra black dice, and maybe ring3 and skill3... it is possible, but probably below 50% chance. hard to calculate exactly.

Edited November 2, 2018 by Avatar111

[TalosX 184]

1 minute ago, Ikiry0 said:

I mean, I'm ok with a Kakita not winning every single duel type ever. Unless there is plans to also give him options for spell duels.

That's not my intention either.  But so many other schools are better at duels at the moment... it really makes me wonder what the devs were thinking.

[Avatar111 553]

3 minutes ago, TalosX said:

That's not my intention either.  But so many other schools are better at duels at the moment... it really makes me wonder what the devs were thinking.

he gets better around rank3+ for first blood duels.

but definitely not super good before that.

and earth ring being so busted, and water ring better than iaijutsu techniques for first strike/first blood duels... 

its weird.

[omnicrone 159]

I think the best way of buffing Kakita in Iaijutsu duels specifically lies with tweaking the rules to give them an edge. I'm thinking about changing the point system for duels for Iaijutsu duels to something like this:
 

First strike

Achieved objective (hit crit)          +6 points
Struck first (crit or not)             +3 points
Poor form (attacked w/o Iaijutsu Cut)  -3 points
Incapacitated enemy with Iai Cut       +3 points
Unmasked                               –2 points
Was witnessed cheating                 Automatic loss

First blood

Achieved objective (hit sev 5 crit)    +6 points
Struck first (only crit)               +3 points
Poor Form (attacked w/o Iaijutsu Cut)  -3 points
Incapacitated enemy with Iai           +1 points
Unmasked                               –2 points
Was witnessed cheating                 Automatic loss

This would give Kakita an edge since Rank 1, for Iai duels specifically, and makes sense in the fluff that the Crane, the ones who controls the rules, would do it in a way that favors how they train their duelists.

Edited November 2, 2018 by omnicrone

[AK_Aramis 1,002]

On 11/1/2018 at 1:30 PM, Avatar111 said:

not water... EARTH !!

all i'm saying is basically Air ring is bad for duels (generally bad overall). If you Build your Kakita Earth it is all good! he can win as much as others. But you are forced to have Air 3 to start... which is just a bad start.

the problem basically boils down to earth stance being busted in duels (first strike duels). everything else is just gravy around the main "issue".

Not just first strike, but also first blood and lethal. All of them are critical-required.

[AK_Aramis 1,002]

7 hours ago, omnicrone said:

I think the best way of buffing Kakita in Iaijutsu duels specifically lies with tweaking the rules to give them an edge. I'm thinking about changing the point system for duels for Iaijutsu duels to something like this:
 

First strike

Achieved objective (hit crit)          +6 points
Struck first (crit or not)             +3 points
Poor form (attacked w/o Iaijutsu Cut)  -3 points
Incapacitated enemy with Iai Cut       +3 points
Unmasked                               –2 points
Was witnessed cheating                 Automatic loss

First blood

Achieved objective (hit sev 5 crit)    +6 points
Struck first (only crit)               +3 points
Poor Form (attacked w/o Iaijutsu Cut)  -3 points
Incapacitated enemy with Iai           +1 points
Unmasked                               –2 points
Was witnessed cheating                 Automatic loss

This would give Kakita an edge since Rank 1, for Iai duels specifically, and makes sense in the fluff that the Crane, the ones who controls the rules, would do it in a way that favors how they train their duelists.

Reread defending - you don't actually make any contact unless you do a crit; you just force them to dodge (hence the fatigue).

[Avatar111 553]

7 minutes ago, AK_Aramis said:

Not just first strike, but also first blood and lethal. All of them are critical-required.

indeed. earth stance just "jam" all duels. they become "to incapacitated".

regarding your other point; p.261 duel scoring. they include both points for "struck the enemy first" and points for "inflicted one or more critical". I understand non-crits are not "hits", but you have to agree their stuff is not clear! sure, rule as written, you don't make the points for "struck the enemy first" unless you were the first to land a crit. Its just written in an obscure way.

but hey. its first edition, probably a very small team, not that much playtesting and proofreading.. stuff like that is to be expected.

[nameless ronin 706]

31 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

but hey. its first edition, probably a very small team, not that much playtesting and proofreading.. stuff like that is to be expected.

I'll agree to disagree on that, for a fifty euro product. The proofreading part also seems par for the course for FFG products in my experience - production value: fantastic; gameplay as intended: good; player aid and rules as written: lacking.

Edited November 2, 2018 by nameless ronin

[Avatar111 553]

2 minutes ago, nameless ronin said:

production value: fantastic; gameplay as intended: good; player aid and rules as written: lacking.

i can agree with that.

prod value: great (not star wars "fantastic" but still really good, the dices are a bit lacking in readability and it doesnt have a lot of nice full spreads in the book)

gameplay as intended: good (core ideas and concepts are solid, the intention is good)

rules are written: lacking (is a very nice way of putting it, it needs a solid pass of polishing unless you play in a very non-gamey group where rules are taken very lightly)