Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
RusakRakesh

Knight Level Play

Recommended Posts

In conclusion for my 3 year long and ongoing campaign (once a week meetings steady), I can see that about 800 xp from starting, is already master level, or at least have a a few force powers in full, or 5+ talent specializations full.
My feedback is, don't give away too much extra xp, 10 per session should be top, and pace the spending of the xp with intervals, meaning with the arcs in the story.
Specifically Force Power buy, as some synergistic talents and powers are quite a plot killer... Move 4 ATATs into Extreme? quite the fall damage... and attacking with a ranged sized vehicle? Combat upgrades as incidentals?. Same goes to all the Fore Rating 3+ powers who you get faster, if you double down on  talent trees with FR from the start.

Just as example, one of the players is;  Seeker, Sage, Hermit, Niman Disciple, Ataru Striker, Executioner, Enforcer, All Basic Force Powers full, all career skills at 3, and has a beast companion Silhouette  2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think higher XP awards are fine, depending on how long the GM intends the campaign to run.

For something where you're playing once a week for three to four years on a regular basis (averaging about one missed session every couple months), then a lower XP award per session is probably fine, though I might suggest setting the baseline at 15XP rather than 10XP.

However, if you're only able to game every couple weeks and the GM doesn't plan to go beyond 25 to 30 sessions, then a higher XP award is preferable  because otherwise the players will have made very little progress by the time the campaign wraps.

As for your one player with all those specs, how many of them did they invest and purchase the majority of the talents for, and how many did they just dip into?  I'm running a F&D game (about 500XP awarded thus far) where the token muggle was frankly a mish-mash of specs and non-career skills simply from trying to cover too many bases at once, and only recently with a GM-permitted respect was this character able to pick up a Dedication talent in spite of having acquired three different specializations on top of their beginning one.

The question of "how much XP is too much?" also can depend on the GM.  Some GMs are able to handle and challenge characters with ludicrous XP totals (3000 to 4000 earned XP, if not more) with no problem, while other GMs (new and veteran) start floundering once the PCs hit the 250XP mark and can't handle PCs at the 500XP mark.

There's also a matter of intended theme.  If the GM is angling for more of a "gritty" campaign where the PCs need to worry about being overwhelmed, then lower per session XP awards work to enforce the feel of the PCs being the lowmen on the metaphorical totem pole.  However, a higher per session XP award is appropriate if the GM wants their players' characters to feel like they truly are heroes and not just simply the named protagonists of the campaign.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Donovan is right it just depends on your campaign.  The one I'm in has been going on for almost 2 years and we get around 10 to 15 per session.  Hit over 800 a month ago, but we haven't played for almost 3 weeks due to people being sick and our GM has had work going on.  At first I thought it was not really enough xp, but since we have been going for so long it feels right.  It has also motivated me to play my character with more story and role-play instead of just playing him by just the skills he has.  The goal of the game is for you to get immersed into a story, role-play and have fun not build a super op character that usually lots of xp allows.   The game goes by better that way, but every game is different having an op character might be what your group wants. I've heard of games where they double the xp, but what I've heard from other people who have been in groups where they do the pc characters get to a point where they start getting out of control.  This game was designed for 10 to 15 xp a session.  Double xp would work for short campaigns but long ones like the one I'm in that will go for years its a bad idea, since that's the setting the GM has set.

Also really helps that our group has known each other for almost 10 years so a long game can happen with the group I'm in.

I think the important thing is as a player try to keep your mind on the campaign and story and have fun than just worry about your character's advancement, the game becomes more interesting and fun that way.  In time your character will become better at things.  You also grow into your character allot better.

I can tell you this at only 800 xp I feel my character is just really beginning to get somewhere but still needs allot of improvement to get where I want to go.  I'm just finishing up my second specialization and now I'm planning to start spending time getting more force. I also have a good view on how I like my character, and if we were getting a lot more xp I would have put xp in areas that I would have regretted later.  Because of the slow xp and concentrating more on role-play and story I feel my character is more epic and more the hero instead of being a numbers machine.

So while at first I hated the slow xp of only 10-15 in the end it all worked out.

Though I wouldn't mind to try out a game where I have 2000+ xp just to see how it can be.  It should work as long as your gm can handle it, it can still be fun.

Also another thing our group is in the setting between A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back, and having a jedi type of character with 2000 xp might seem out of place.

Edited by Metalghost

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

The question of "how much XP is too much?" also can depend on the GM.  Some GMs are able to handle and challenge characters with ludicrous XP totals (3000 to 4000 earned XP, if not more) with no problem, while other GMs (new and veteran) start floundering once the PCs hit the 250XP mark and can't handle PCs at the 500XP mark.

There's also a matter of intended theme.  If the GM is angling for more of a "gritty" campaign where the PCs need to worry about being overwhelmed, then lower per session XP awards work to enforce the feel of the PCs being the lowmen on the metaphorical totem pole.  However, a higher per session XP award is appropriate if the GM wants their players' characters to feel like they truly are heroes and not just simply the named protagonists of the campaign.

I've run 2 (and a half) campaigns so far and I fully agree.  the first campaign was (is) from base starting XP.  The characters are all younger force sensitive people who were found by a survivor of Order 66 and was being trained to be Jedi up until their Master was killed by the Empire.  It is still ongoing and is great.

The second campaign was started because we wanted something closer to the Jedi vs Sith.  It's set in the Old Republic and everyone started at Base+700XP.  I am having a blast with this one. It can be difficult to make a challenge but it was pure GM joy when the players faced their first Sith Lord.  The one character that was always an up front fighter, first to jump in got his first taste of Force Lightning and decided to let the actual Jedi have most of the fun while he swapped out to his ranged weaponry.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, RusakRakesh said:

In conclusion for my 3 year long and ongoing campaign (once a week meetings steady), I can see that about 800 xp from starting, is already master level, or at least have a a few force powers in full, or 5+ talent specializations full.
My feedback is, don't give away too much extra xp, 10 per session should be top, and pace the spending of the xp with intervals, meaning with the arcs in the story.
Specifically Force Power buy, as some synergistic talents and powers are quite a plot killer... Move 4 ATATs into Extreme? quite the fall damage... and attacking with a ranged sized vehicle? Combat upgrades as incidentals?. Same goes to all the Fore Rating 3+ powers who you get faster, if you double down on  talent trees with FR from the start.

Just as example, one of the players is;  Seeker, Sage, Hermit, Niman Disciple, Ataru Striker, Executioner, Enforcer, All Basic Force Powers full, all career skills at 3, and has a beast companion Silhouette  2.

800 XP is a lot, certainly enough to carry out what most ppl might consider a "standard" campaign. Enough for Players to achieve the feel of what one might conceive of a "full fledged" Jedi Knight from the movies or series (though not IMO a Jedi Master like Yoda or a Vader).

But your greater statement and conclusion at large is complete nonsense and just a crap analysis of the above implication and patently, wholly crap advice.

As others have pointed out, campaign feel and pacing is so table-subjective, you just cannot make the statement you've made with any relevance at all to other people's games.

But also, I'm wondering if you're doing something... eh, out of the norm... with regards to RAW.

Maybe it's just me not understanding how you're trying to use terminology, but a single Spec Talent Tree costs 300 XP to get "full" (get all Talents on the tree). And considering just getting access to 3 Specializations is minimally 50 XP just for the privilege, it doesn't seem like your math is lining up as you hit your 800 XP half-way through the 3rd Spec - and that's if you don't put ANYTHING into Skills or Force Powers...

Again, maybe I just don't understand your semantics but, you're acting a little crazy here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, RusakRakesh said:

In conclusion for my 3 year long and ongoing campaign (once a week meetings steady), I can see that about 800 xp from starting, is already master level, or at least have a a few force powers in full, or 5+ talent specializations full.
My feedback is, don't give away too much extra xp, 10 per session should be top, and pace the spending of the xp with intervals, meaning with the arcs in the story.
Specifically Force Power buy, as some synergistic talents and powers are quite a plot killer... Move 4 ATATs into Extreme? quite the fall damage... and attacking with a ranged sized vehicle? Combat upgrades as incidentals?. Same goes to all the Fore Rating 3+ powers who you get faster, if you double down on  talent trees with FR from the start.

Just as example, one of the players is;  Seeker, Sage, Hermit, Niman Disciple, Ataru Striker, Executioner, Enforcer, All Basic Force Powers full, all career skills at 3, and has a beast companion Silhouette  2.

Your 800 XP example spent 230 XP on Specializations and at least 300 XP on skills just to get them to rank 2 (not 3 as you stated). That only leaves 370 XP to buy Force Powers and Talents. I'm not exactly sure what "All Basic Force Powers full" means, but your trees give you roughly 1,800 Xp-worth of Talent options to pick from, so it's obvious that the character has, at best, only minimally explored most of these.

Edited by HappyDaze

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. I've found about 600 earned xp (approx 100 hours of playtime) is sufficient. Whatever story we started out with, however epic, is really done by then.

2. Starting play with 50 earned xp (per the recommendation in Genesys CRB) is more enjoyable, since everyone just spends their starting xp on characteristics.

Edited by Lorne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Lorne said:

1. I've found about 600 earned xp (approx 100 hours of playtime) is sufficient. Whatever story we started out with, however epic, is really done by then.

2. Starting play with 50 earned xp (per the recommendation in Genesys CRB) is more enjoyable, since everyone just spends their starting xp on characteristics.

On #2, myself and a number of fellow GMs in the area have adopted the house rule of every PC starts out with an extra 25XP and the choice of either 1500 credits or a special item.  The extra 25XP works out pretty well to help "flesh out" character concepts, and the extra credits helps offset that PCs in this system start out dirt poor without them being forced to take additional Obligation or lower their Duty just to have some decent starting gear.  And if a player really wants their character to start out with some really sweet gear (like a burly set of armor or a pimped-out blaster rifle), then they can opt to gain additional credits via Obligation/Duty.

The "special item" option also allows for things like a lone F&D character in an EotE or AoR group having access to a basic lightsaber whose kyber crystal only has a very limited number of mod options or a holocron similar to the background option available to F&D groups.

With the 600XP, I can see that being a sufficient stopping point for AoR and EotE campaigns, as eventually those characters will have bought up their skills and talents to a point where there's not really all that more they need to bolster up.  For F&D however, I'd contend that depending on the concept, 600XP is just starting to scratch the surface, especially if you've got a PC that's delved into one of the LS Form specs and thus are stuck with Force Rating 1 for quite some time, and that's on top of investing XP into Force powers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

With the 600XP, I can see that being a sufficient stopping point for AoR and EotE campaigns, as eventually those characters will have bought up their skills and talents to a point where there's not really all that more they need to bolster up.  For F&D however, I'd contend that depending on the concept, 600XP is just starting to scratch the surface, especially if you've got a PC that's delved into one of the LS Form specs and thus are stuck with Force Rating 1 for quite some time, and that's on top of investing XP into Force powers.

Indeed. Were I to run a game exclusively with F&D characters (as opposed to a mixed group, which is usually the norm, and would I ever keep that table small, like 3 PC's...), I would probably start near 100 earned xp and plan on running to ~1,000xp and pace it accordingly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm running a game now where I started the characters with 500 earned xp, but they had to spend it on one of two specific universal specializations (and completing the specialization), then use the leftover xp basic force powers and on raising class skills up to rank 2 (or skills I named as in theme for the campaign and one of each player's choice being limited to 3 instead of 2). I also assigned some in-theme gear and a pair of sil-3 ships and some NPCs and astromechs. So far it's worked out well after awarding almost 400 additional XP as the game has gone on (15 base per night, usually ends up being 25-35 xp total). Even with all of them as lightsaber-wielding force users, a couple of 6-man storm trooper squads and a weak inquisitor or two is still enough to challenge them for a couple rounds. (giving the storm troopers grenades occasionally is also fun)

I've asked them not to increase their skills past starting limits for the time being, and that keeps it easy to challenge them (that limit will increase by one soon as they start a new chapter), but still leave them lots of options for spending XP. Each has three or four specializations to work on, lots of skills that have ongoing effects in the campaign (even with only 2 or 3 ranks), and with force powers for added flexibility in spending xp, they only barely feel the limit to skill increases.

As a GM, I try to make every skill matter, and make sure that multiple people having a particular non-combat skill doesn't make one of them feel like it was wasted xp. I also make sure they feel appropriate pain for any lack of social skills (Coercion shouldn't be the only social skill in the group above rank 1). I don't do enough with the Survival skill or do a great job making all of the knowledge skills relevant (I'm working on that part), but I do get the rest of them in regularly, and I have a group that actively seeks out using non-combat skills.

TL;DR: If you feel the characters need more starting resources, grant them with your campaign theme attached to their use (I really like granting complete universal trees to starting characters plus a gear package appropriate to the campaign). Talents and powers are more fun than high skills (most of the time), but high skill ranks is where real power comes from; so if necessary, simply limit the highest rank available to the characters, and limit the number that can have that rank. Use larger minion groups with combat-focused leaders to make the choice of which to focus on in combat a more interesting one and issue grenades to minion groups who are feeling unloved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Our group doesn't do per session XP. Instead, I prepare a story arc intended to run 3-5 sessions with character development handled when it over. Players generally tell me their development goals ahead of time and I often (not always) work that into the challenges or theme of the arc. Development is usually a few talents from a tree, improving force powers, and / or a skill improvement. It usually amounts to 40-50 experience worth of improvement. Over the long-term its slower than the recommended experience awards, but its less incremental and feels more like a "power up" to the players, which keeps them satisfied. Characters in our game also start a little stronger (knight level plus some resources) so the slower rise doesn't feel like an acute issue in the early game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Vondy said:

Our group doesn't do per session XP. Instead, I prepare a story arc intended to run 3-5 sessions with character development handled when it over. Players generally tell me their development goals ahead of time and I often (not always) work that into the challenges or theme of the arc. Development is usually a few talents from a tree, improving force powers, and / or a skill improvement. It usually amounts to 40-50 experience worth of improvement. Over the long-term its slower than the recommended experience awards, but its less incremental and feels more like a "power up" to the players, which keeps them satisfied. Characters in our game also start a little stronger (knight level plus some resources) so the slower rise doesn't feel like an acute issue in the early game.

That actually sounds like a really good way to play. I might need to try that. Especially in a FaD campaign where many of the skills (force powers) are learned from obscure places. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...